Anschutz Match 54 -
1964

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Although I dont have a photo as yet I have just applied for a BSA Majestic in 30-06 yesterday, where could I get info as to where to look on the rifle so I could age the rifle, I know it was in storage in the Phoenix Park for over 30 years. and has sat in a safe for the last 8 years. in great condition not a mark on the barrel it looks like it's a mauser bolt set up.

Hi All,
The Super phoned me last Sunday evening asking to give him 2 reasons as to why he should grant this rifle, now to say I was P###ed off with is comment is an understatement, but anyway its granted and I should have the paperwork in the next few days, where I will then collect and post a photo.;);):D:D.

My oldest rifle is a MkII Snider conversion from a P53 rifle, dated 1862. Does that count?

tac

tac foley wrote: »

@TawnyOwl - As it is a British-made rifle it will have good and clear and dateable proof mark stamps on the barrel and action. Post pics and we can date it.

The Unique rifle [made in the Basque region of the Pyrenees in Hendaye] will also be dateable. Early 1960's pre-dates the CIP Agreement, and IF the rifle came via England then it would have had to have been proofed prior to sale to the public.

tac

Thanks for replying I cant wait to get the Rifle, as I also own a .243 still waiting on the approval letter so I can go to the Post Office, thought I would at least have it before the weekend, but looks like its on a desk somewhere.

Cheers.

Tawny Owl wrote: »

Got the BSA 30-06 today has some marks but I can't date it, has on the barrel
BP BV NP all with the crown above them under that it has NC41GRs

This page http://www.airgunspares.com/store/content/87/BSA/ (scroll down for c/f) may be of interest, although the codes don't gel with the "number" you've given. What's your serial number (or some of it), and is your barrel original?

This being a BSA rifle, it will have Birmingham Proof House marks. They take the form of two crossed sceptres, and three letters/numbers in the spaces, in addition to later circles as shown below. There should also be a calibre, eg .243 Win, and a chamber length in inches, eg 2.05", chamber pressure expressed in long tons per square inch, eg 19.5 TONS PER [square symbol]".

The other stamps mean -

BP = Birmingham Proof

NP = Nitro proof

V = view [posh for inspection]

Please tell us what the letters are in this fashion -

? X ?

Clue - A X B - the number '1' appears in the lower space. This combination dates from January 1950, with #1 - senior examiner. The higher the number, the less senior the 'rank/seniority' of the inspector.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo -

A X B = 1950 - to Z X B = 1974 - there is NO letter I to save confunglement with number 1.

If there is a circle instead, without sceptres, as in A B - this dates from 1975 to K B 1984

After this date, again with crossed sceptres, beginning with L X C [1985] and ending Z X C in 1997.

Your rifle is likely to fit in the middle era.

tac

What a real pleasure it is to see such a beautiful rifle made of wood and steel, with its original iron sights at front and back and all that lovely polished action parts.

The only thing that spoils it somewhat for me is that somebody else owns it.......................however, I'll send you my address, just in case you are ever feeling generously disposed

tac

tac foley wrote: »

This being a BSA rifle, it will have Birmingham Proof House marks. They take the form of two crossed sceptres, and three letters/numbers in the spaces, in addition to later circles as shown below. There should also be a calibre, eg .243 Win, and a chamber length in inches, eg 2.05", chamber pressure expressed in long tons per square inch, eg 19.5 TONS PER [square symbol]".

The other stamps mean -

BP = Birmingham Proof

NP = Nitro proof

V = view [posh for inspection]

Please tell us what the letters are in this fashion -

? X ?

Clue - A X B - the number '1' appears in the lower space. This combination dates from January 1950, with #1 - senior examiner. The higher the number, the less senior the 'rank/seniority' of the inspector.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo -

A X B = 1950 - to Z X B = 1974 - there is NO letter I to save confunglement with number 1.

If there is a circle instead, without sceptres, as in A B - this dates from 1975 to K B 1984

After this date, again with crossed sceptres, beginning with L X C [1985] and ending Z X C in 1997.

Your rifle is likely to fit in the middle era.

tac

Thanks for all the info I dont have the two crossed sceptres anywhere on the Rifle, its a 30-06, I did take it apart over the weekend and found stamped under the barrell the following, B2 and some other marks photos to follow, home computer giving trouble at the moment.

More photos.

@Tawny Owl - Your images are about forty times bigger than my 27" screen - I can't read them, sorry.

However, YOU have the gun in your hands and can see the serial number - the prefix letters on the serial number give the date -

7B .30 .'60 Springfield Hunter L.A. Imperial 1956 - 1964
7D Imperial Featherweight 1957 - 1959
7E Majestic 1965 - 1971
7G Majestic 1960 - 1966
7L Monarch 1st Pattern 1966 - 1971
7M Monarch 2nd Pattern 1968 - 1972

That's all I can help you with.

tac

tac foley wrote: »

Sorry, I can't see only maybe a square inch at a time, so I gave up trying.

By converted I'm assuming that you mean sporterized?

Sorry I couldn't be more useful.

tac

Sporterized - yes, but done professionally, not by Bubba.

Googling would indicate it's a "Model E" - rifle (there was evidently also a Model E motorcycle).

Whatever else it might be, I see no evidence of it being a BSA. BSA firearms are clearly stamped with the words 'BIRMINGHAM SMALL ARMS' on the left side of the action, and have the usual 'piled arms' [that's three Martini-Henry rifles joined together at the muzzle] stamped on the action ring.

Does your rifle have the 'not English make' stamp on it the barrel and action? That alone would date it between 1946 and 1954.

tac

Right now, albeit with the view on mrs tac's device, I don't see ANYTHING that makes it a BSA ANYTHING. Where are the usual profusion of BSA stamps on the receiver? And no, the receiver has not been refinished, that is the plum colour of military heat treatment, clearly visible on some of my Luger pistols.

The load is not just mild, but anemic in the extreme, and bears no relationship to the usual 30-06 loadings. In fact, looking through my reloading books I see NO loads of any kind BELOW 47gr of IMR4831, and that is for a 250gr Barnes SP bullet. It is NOT any kind of commercial loading either. The usual load for a 220 gr SP bullet is 50.5 gr of IMR 4350. Oddly enough, the lighter the bullet, the more powder of a given type is required to get it to the same velocities as its heavier brethren - a 100gr bullet needs almost 60gr of the suitable propellant.

Commercial loading of the more common 180gr SP bullet is 48.5 gr of IMR 4320 or 57gr of IMR 4831.

Right now, I strongly believe that I'm, looking at a model '03 action Springfield that somehow escaped the upgrade.

It might have originally come over to UK as part of the Lend-Lease emergency weapons supply, ending up as surplus at the end of the war and not having been used except by the Home Guard - who knows? The serial number might reveal all, as will a single glimpse of the bolt.

I agree with you about the date - fifties gives it that look. The stock is very reminiscent of the products of two commercial mass-producers of stocks in the USA, Reinhardt Fajen and Bishop, both of whom were widely used in this England by BSA and Parker-Hale. The flamboyant multi-curved outlines with their sharply-formed roll-over cheekpieces, pistol grips and spiffy-looking buttpads are typical of their day, and a welcome change in post-war UK and elsewhere to the straightline austerity we see on the lovely Browning up the page.

tac

tac foley wrote: »

Right now, I strongly believe that I'm, looking at a model '03 action Springfield that somehow escaped the upgrade.

Are you sure? Have a look at the bolt release. It appears to me to be exactly like the P14 / M17 and not at all like the 03 Springfield.

Looks like it to me. But why BSA? BSA did not convert rifles, but Parker-Hale certainly did, by the tens of thousands.

The stamp that I identified totally filled my screen from one side to the other, so I have missed out on the bolt stop bit. Can YOU repost it so I can see it?

BTW, the action does look like a P14/M1917 to me, with the sight protecting 'ears' milled off. The circular feature on the bolt take-down latch fills my 27" screen....makes things a mite difficult to judge.

Parker-Hale used to refurbish these rifles that had already been converted to .303 [if you remember the Americans made a few hundred thousand in .303 just for the Brits] for the military match competitions held by the NRA at Bisley every year. They 'accurised' them for a small extra cost using a process they called 'ball-burnishing' that consisted of forcing a very slightly oversized tungsten carbide ball down the barrel to smooth out the machining imperfections. The words 'Ball-burnished P-H] were stamped around the crown to show it had been done. They cost, in 1957, the princely sum of £15.19.6 or £17.19.6 with a BB barrel. The non-converted rifles had been used by the Home Guard during the war, and had a broad red stripe around the forend and butt-end of the stock denoting the different calibre.

tac