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The Irish Ambassador to UK lays a wreath

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    #2
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Good.

    Although it does look a bit out of place, the green one alongside all the other red poppy ones.


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    #3
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Good.

    Although it does look a bit out of place, the green one alongside all the other red poppy ones.

    Agreed. Hard to know if it is "craobh na h-Eireann" or craven.


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    #4
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I'm just very satisfied to see it finally there at all - and not before time. From reading a recent thread on this site, it is evident that the poppy still has unfortunate connotations with many Irish people.

    Ireland is forever associated with green, and IMO this green wreath has a lot of symbolism that all sides of the argument can understand and live with.

    tac


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    #5
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Agreed. Hard to know if it is "craobh na h-Eireann" or craven.

    What?


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    #6
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Jesus. wrote: »
    What?

    Ya get it or ya don’t – it’s an attempt at a bilingual pun made on an effort to do something but not to get it quite right. Such as presenting a green laurel wreath instead of a red poppy one (as used by 99% of others).

    A laurel wreath primarily is presented to the victors of a championship or another event (poet Laureate, craobh na h-Eireann = All Ireland Championship). Laurel can also represent eternity, but to a far lesser extent, so it could be used to commemorate the dead. Why not place a poppy one, e.g. the green poppy as used here in Ireland?

    Craobh (krave) is a laurel branch/wreath in Irish. Craven = fainthearted, fearful, pusillanimous.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m pleased a wreath was laid, I’d just prefer that it is done correctly and not in a cack-handed manner in an effort to avoid upsetting the bigots.


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    #7
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Cheers Pedro, I get you now.

    Good point well made lad.


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    #8
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I got your point, but I don't believe that the ambassador thought that he was there to make a political statement based on comparative linguistics or anything else, especially in the presence of almost 12,000 other people from all over the Commonwealth that Ireland chose to leave.

    As I pointed out, Ireland is forever inextricably tied to green, in all its guises - even my Irish poppy pin is green, and the instant identification of a wreath commemorating the 50,000 Irish who died in WW1 is unmistakeable.

    My grandad was one of them.

    tac


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    #9
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    tac foley wrote: »
    I got your point, but I don't believe that the ambassador thought that he was there to make a political statement based on comparative linguistics or anything else, especially in the presence of almost 12,000 other people from all over the Commonwealth that Ireland chose to leave.

    As I pointed out, Ireland is forever inextricably tied to green, in all its guises - even my Irish poppy pin is green, and the instant identification of a wreath commemorating the 50,000 Irish who died in WW1 is unmistakeable.

    My grandad was one of them.

    tac
    As you know well Tac, ambassadors do exactly what they are told and never depart from scripted speech/actions. I did not suggest otherwise. That event was choreographed down to the last detail, including the colour of the wreath.

    HMG (FO) calls our Dept. of Foreign Affairs with a question – ‘Were and invitation be issued etc would it be welcome and positively viewed?” Up the line to our minister with comments, recommendation, over to Taoiseach’s office, decision, back the same way. Micromanaged. That sort of diplomacy is ancient, a bit like the captain of a frigate sending a boat in ahead to ask if he fires a salute will it be returned.

    I take your point on the green of the wreath, I’ve no hang-up over poppies, I prefer the significance of the red/green one, but bottom line I’m very glad it was done.
    Pedro,
    Great-nephew of one of the fallen, 13th Battalion, Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regt.) ‘Royal Highlanders of Canada’.


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    #10
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »

    I take your point on the green of the wreath, I’ve no hang-up over poppies, I prefer the significance of the red/green one, but bottom line I’m very glad it was done.

    The overall spirit of the countries leading representatives taking part in commemorations for WWI is correct IMO. There are connotations relating to the red poppy that lead me to the view that differentiating our countries remembrance symbol is utterly necessary. My great Uncle Hugh was killed in December 1916 on the western front and it is important to my family that this remembrance is carried out in this way.


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    #11
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Four different posters here, yet three of them lost family members in WW1.

    Says it all, really, don't you think?

    Remembered -

    D9947 Pte Wm V Collins - 6th Dragoon Guards - +21 June 1917 - Row B, Plot #1, Templeux-le-Guerard Northern Extension - Somme Departement.

    Cpl John D Foley Jnr - Base Service Unit - +3 July 1944 - Plot C, Row O, Grave #58 - Madingley American Cemetery UK.

    2Lt Thomas J Foley - co-pilot B24 'Chris' Crate - lost in the North Sea + 23 February 1945 - Wall of Remembrance - Madingley American Cemetery UK.

    tac


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    #12
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    tac foley wrote: »
    at the Cenotaph this morning.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29966658

    Meanwhile, at the same time in Enniskilling, the Taoisach, Enda Kenny, laid a wreath on his third attendance there.

    tac

    The Enniskillen bombing. A day that Sinn Fein IRA should never be left forget. Pure sectarian hatred by them


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    #13
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The Enniskillen bombing. A day that Sinn Fein IRA should never be left forget. Pure sectarian hatred by them

    They haven't been let forget. They know full well its what turned thousands upon thousands of soft-core republicans against them i.e. removed their self-ordained right to speak for all Republicans.
    Republicans, and I am one, are for things, not against things. Its a state of mind, a framing issue. This wreath-laying and mutual exploration of each nation's hurts, is very necessary. We shouldn't be afraid to celebrate the Irish (or UK) fallen in WW1. Similarly, we should not be afraid to say that the red poppy, as it stands, is not for us. Yet we can respect their commemorations.

    ps my great-grandfather was a British officer; Ceylon, Spike Island etc. Many heroic IRA ancestors and in-laws also. We all need to tread gently when dissecting these peoples' lives. But I trust we'd always do that anyway, in a history forum.

    Thank God we are living in conciliatory times. Let's hope the illusory 'them and us' divide is kept at bay in the future.


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    #14
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    What is this? The "I had more Granddaddies in the Army than you" competition?


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    #15
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    This is neither the time nor place for your childish and uneccessary comments.

    tac


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    #16
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The Enniskillen bombing. A day that Sinn Fein IRA should never be left forget. Pure sectarian hatred by them
    How orinially.

    Hasn't been much outrage when the BA/British Establishment murder 11 Catholic civilians in the Ballymurphy massacre. Pure sectarian hatred.

    But unlike Enniskillen thats still remembered the Ballymurphy has been largely forgotten despite being an act of state terrorism.


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    #17
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    This thread, that was begun with the best of intentions, has rapidly become yet another general 'spread the hate around' hate post.

    tac


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    #18
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    tac foley wrote: »
    Mods, please act. tac

    Tac, please don't call for censorship. Allow people have their say even if you disagree with it. Its called freedom of speech.


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    #19
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Happy now?

    tac


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    #20
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Fair play


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    #21
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    The overall spirit of the countries leading representatives taking part in commemorations for WWI is correct IMO. There are connotations relating to the red poppy that lead me to the view that differentiating our countries remembrance symbol is utterly necessary. My great Uncle Hugh was killed in December 1916 on the western front and it is important to my family that this remembrance is carried out in this way.

    Well said, G/f died in June 1918 Cpl in the ASC.


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