Valve developing steam box console

Sierra Oscar · 10-12-2012 8:05pm

I suspect that whatever it is will be closer to a home theatre type system rather than a traditional console. I would imagine it will use Windows and just have an advanced version of the Steam Big Picture mode. Basically just a guarantee that Steam, and your library of games, will work out of the box.

Valve have already hinted that they do not want to get hugely involved in the mass production of peripherals and the likes, which tends to go hand in hand with console production. Although in saying that Valve could have recognised a niche in the market when they started looking into this seriously and they might be bold and brave.

5uspect · 10-12-2012 8:52pm

I see my Steam Library as split somewhat between sit down with a mouse and keyboard games (shooters etc) and those I'd rather just blow a few mins with a controller with from the sofa. Platformers, racers etc.

I was considering putting together a HTPC with my old GTX275 which is gathering dust, but a ready build steam box...

K.O.Kiki · 10-12-2012 9:37pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I guess it'll depend on what OS they're running. If it's a cut down version of windows 8 or they're own OS. I'd assume it'll be windows 8 if it's going to be cross compatible with PC games.

They'll be able to get much more out of their hardware by having a slim OS, so it might not be so middle of the road. Most gaming PCs these days are over powered.

No way it's going to be Windows 8, it would increase the price too much -- and Gabe already hates it.

hooradiation · 10-12-2012 9:48pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

this. Its like putting all those pieces together now. what are the chances of the new valve box running on linux? 99% if you ask me.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Why would valve put together a box that running on an operating system that only a tiny fraction of the games available on steam will support?

Retr0gamer · 10-12-2012 9:59pm

Might not be too far from fantasy than you think. Running Linux will be very cost effective considering you save on licensing costs to Microsoft who also might not be too happy with giving a license to a Xbox competitor. Most Valve games support linux to my knowledge and getting your game on the console store by making a linux version would be a good incentive for developers to create one if it's popular.

Skerries · 10-12-2012 10:21pm

so what do we think it will be called?

Genghiz Cohen · 10-12-2012 10:25pm

Gasket.

ShadowHearth · 10-12-2012 10:36pm

hooradiation wrote: »

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Why would valve put together a box that running on an operating system that only a tiny fraction of the games available on steam will support?

Why not?

Valve already working on proper support on Linux. Trust me, if valve will work on it and use its recourses it can make easily developers to support Linux and switch to openGL.
It minght not be a pure Linux as we know it, it can be some special Frankenstein OS.

GreenWolfe · 10-12-2012 10:46pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Might not be too far from fantasy than you think. Running Linux will be very cost effective considering you save on licensing costs to Microsoft who also might not be too happy with giving a license to a Xbox competitor. Most Valve games support linux to my knowledge and getting your game on the console store by making a linux version would be a good incentive for developers to create one if it's popular.

If it is Linux-based, Microsoft might claim that that Valve are infringing Microsoft's IP and then attempt to get money out of them through the legal system.

gizmo · 11-12-2012 1:36am

There's some serious misconceptions about the OS-side of things here...

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Why not?
Valve already working on proper support on Linux. Trust me, if valve will work on it and use its recourses it can make easily developers to support Linux and switch to openGL.
It minght not be a pure Linux as we know it, it can be some special Frankenstein OS.

Valve adding Linux support to Steam and the Source engine has nothing to do with making it easier for other developers to do it to their own games. There's a reason the Source engine hasn't been licensed by many third parties, it's just flat out not as good as the competitions and Linux support isn't going to change this.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Might not be too far from fantasy than you think. Running Linux will be very cost effective considering you save on licensing costs to Microsoft who also might not be too happy with giving a license to a Xbox competitor. Most Valve games support linux to my knowledge and getting your game on the console store by making a linux version would be a good incentive for developers to create one if it's popular.

Given Valve's work on porting Steam/Source to Linux and now shifting resources to get big picture mode working on it, I wouldn't be that surprised if it was a Linux-based OS at some point. That being said, if it was due for release any time soon (which I doubt) then they'd have to go with Windows, there simply isn't enough support from third party devs for a Linux-powered console yet. As for MS, if Valve did want to go the Windows route there's not a chance in hell MS would do anything to stop them.

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

If it is Linux-based, Microsoft might claim that that Valve are infringing Microsoft's IP and then attempt to get money out of them through the legal system.

What Microsoft IP could Valve possibly be infringing?

GreenWolfe · 11-12-2012 2:02am

gizmo wrote: »

What Microsoft IP could Valve possibly be infringing?

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Microsoft-licenses-patents-for-Linux-server-data-centers-1652407.html

In July 2009, Microsoft signed a Linux-related patent agreement with Buffalo for their Linux-based NAS devices and routers. There have also been a vast number of Android device makers who have signed agreements with Microsoft regarding patents. Some fought the demands, such as Barnes and Noble; in that case, which didn't refer to the FAT/VFAT patents, a more complex deal was struck to end the litigation which also included a patent deal. In all these agreements, the specific patents involved in the licence deal and the royalty payments demanded were kept secret.

This is one of a fair few examples - it's almost impossible to get specific details.

hooradiation · 11-12-2012 2:11am

Gizmo has beaten me to the punch on this one. Honestly, the nonsense some people are presenting as fact is stunning.

If Valve are stupid enough to go with Linux on this, it'd makes this steambox idea even more of a useless oddity.

Sierra Oscar · 11-12-2012 3:04am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Might not be too far from fantasy than you think. Running Linux will be very cost effective considering you save on licensing costs to Microsoft who also might not be too happy with giving a license to a Xbox competitor. Most Valve games support linux to my knowledge and getting your game on the console store by making a linux version would be a good incentive for developers to create one if it's popular.

But by relying solely on linux Valve would be ensuring that 95% of the games available on Steam would be unplayable on the new system. It would undermine the point of it in the first place - i.e. being able to play the games you have in your Steam library.

ShadowHearth · 11-12-2012 8:44am

hooradiation wrote: »

Gizmo has beaten me to the punch on this one. Honestly, the nonsense some people are presenting as fact is stunning.

If Valve are stupid enough to go with Linux on this, it'd makes this steambox idea even more of a useless oddity.

It might be Linux based, not pure Linux OS. And it would be bigger chance it to be Linux based then Microsoft based. No way valve will go near windows after those comets before and no way MS will let in another competition in to console market with their own OS!

At this stage there are just not enough details and all of it is speculation. I am prety sure the new valve box will come in with built in toaster and jam dispenser. It will have a small LED screen to, which will say only one thing even if console is out of power: "stam sale is up, bitches! Feed me your money!".

Dyr · 11-12-2012 9:54am

Skerries wrote: »

so what do we think it will be called?

The steam machine

Or Vapour :pac:

Dyr · 11-12-2012 10:00am

Anyhoo I thought Valve have repeatedly stated that they don't want to get into the hardware game? Protesting too much perhaps? What will really interest me about this possibility is what they could come up with for a controller, maybe some long overdue innovation that will unshackle the glorious PC gaming master race from their desks..

death1234567 · 11-12-2012 10:10am

Anyone think this new console could just be a way to use your PC to play games on your TV? i.e. you leave your PC on with Steam running and then turn on your Steam box which allows you to play your entire steam library remotely on your TV with the new Valve 'Freeman' controller.

Myrddin · 11-12-2012 10:33am

death1234567 wrote: »

Anyone think this new console could just be a way to use your PC to play games on your TV?

Doesn't a hdmi cable allow the same thing? Surely this is about making money from a small affordable 'consolised pc' that increases exposure of Steam & its content to more people?

If its a plug & play out of the box solution, I think it could well achieve that above

TPD · 11-12-2012 10:34am

In with a guess of 'Mist' for the name of this thing.

Dyr · 11-12-2012 10:35am

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It will have a small LED screen to, which will say only one thing even if console is out of power: "stam sale is up, bitches! Feed me your money!".

presumably there'll be a slot that you can just leave your credit card in

gizmo · 11-12-2012 11:31am

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Microsoft-licenses-patents-for-Linux-server-data-centers-1652407.html

This is one of a fair few examples - it's almost impossible to get specific details.

If Valve choose to use one of their patents then I'd imagine yes, they'll have to licence it. MS have always had an open policy on this unlike Apple who would rather sue and block the sale of the device. However given the fact that it won't be Android powered and using Linux gives them more freedom with regard to file systems, I'd say they should be able to safely avoid such issues. And let's not forget here, Newell worked for MS for over 13 years and made his first million there, I'm quite sure he knows how to deal with them at this stage.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It might be Linux based, not pure Linux OS. And it would be bigger chance it to be Linux based then Microsoft based. No way valve will go near windows after those comets before and no way MS will let in another competition in to console market with their own OS!

If they go in the Linux-based direction then it'll be a Debian-based distro or something along those lines. As for Windows, as I said in the previous thread, neither Valve's nor Gabe's previous comments will have any bearing on what OS ships with this console. We all remember the PS3 saga, right?

To cut right to the issue here, Valve will do whatever makes the most money for Valve in the long run. Just because they can seem overly generous at times doesn't change this. It's in their best interests to get as many people using Steam as possible since that, I'd imagine, is their bread and butter these days. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they went in the Amazon direction here and simply broke even on the unit itself for the above reasons.

Fluffy88 · 11-12-2012 11:35am

I'm not going to try and guess what OS this would be running. But I wouldn't count anything out. Considering any big game that is released these days has to be written at least twice. As far as I know the PS3 is a completely different architecture to the PC and 360. And I think the 360 is actually quite different to the PC, so as it stands currently a game actually has to be re-written for 3 different platform.
Why not add one more?

Although, as has been said already, it would be stupid for Valve to cut out the huge catalogue of Windows games from this new console as that would be a huge selling point for it. A brand new console that already has hundreds of thousands of games already released for it and the vast majority of people will already own a decent collection of PC games.

There is a possibility that they could go with a Linux platform but include directx in it and do it in such a way that Windows games will still play on the console. There is already programs available on Linux to do this, Wine for example.

I'd love to see Valve go with Linux and push for the development of new games in OpenGL so I don't ever have to 'upgrade' to Windows 8 but I doubt Valve are silly enough to lose out on the ability to play all your old games.

hooradiation · 11-12-2012 12:51pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It might be Linux based, not pure Linux OS.

I really have no idea what you're getting at here.
I don't know how you propose to make it Linux based yet not running Linux...

ShadowHearth wrote: »

And it would be bigger chance it to be Linux based then Microsoft based. No way valve will go near windows after those comets before and no way MS will let in another competition in to console market with their own OS!

Well comets are powerful forces, that much is true.
But seriously, this is pretty strange thinking.

Valve making their box Linux based would cut out one of the big advantages of steam (or so we're told) which is the massive back catalogue... so what's the goddamn point? What do we get, aside from some nerds having a hard on cos this time everyone will see how awesome linux is?

As for Microsoft not "letting another competition in", not really sure you've thought that one through.
If this idea takes off they'd have valve putting machines into homes with their operating system on it the world over.
And that would be just so terrible for Microsoft.
But thankfully the money from such a venture should be sufficient to dry their tears.

Fluffy88 wrote: »

I'm not going to try and guess what OS this would be running. But I wouldn't count anything out. Considering any big game that is released these days has to be written at least twice. As far as I know the PS3 is a completely different architecture to the PC and 360. And I think the 360 is actually quite different to the PC, so as it stands currently a game actually has to be re-written for 3 different platform.
Why not add one more?

Not really accurate, at all, but I can see where you're coming from.
The problem wouldn't be adding a Linux branch to various engines. It would be a lot of work, but not impossible.

The problem is effort V reward. It's not really worth it right now and making the steam box Linux based would be betting that the valve brand would be sufficient to sell enough units of their box in order to make it worth the while of publishers to pay for that SKU of a game to be developed.

It's a hell of a gamble.

ShadowHearth · 11-12-2012 1:16pm

hooradiation wrote: »

I really have no idea what you're getting at here.
I don't know how you propose to make it Linux based yet not running Linux...

Well comets are powerful forces, that much is true.
But seriously, this is pretty strange thinking.

Valve making their box Linux based would cut out one of the big advantages of steam (or so we're told) which is the massive back catalogue... so what's the goddamn point? What do we get, aside from some nerds having a hard on cos this time everyone will see how awesome linux is?

As for Microsoft not "letting another competition in", not really sure you've thought that one through.
If this idea takes off they'd have valve putting machines into homes with their operating system on it the world over.
And that would be just so terrible for Microsoft.
But thankfully the money from such a venture should be sufficient to dry their tears.

Not really accurate, at all, but I can see where you're coming from.
The problem wouldn't be adding a Linux branch to various engines. It would be a lot of work, but not impossible.

The problem is effort V reward. It's not really worth it right now and making the steam box Linux based would be betting that the valve brand would be sufficient to sell enough units of their box in order to make it worth the while of publishers to pay for that SKU of a game to be developed.

It's a hell of a gamble.

Right. Nobody said that it will come with pure Linus OS with a steam desktop shortcut. Limix might be just a base, for completely new OS? Do you get it now? And yeah, we don't know yet, maybe they already working on a way to make games work on Linux. You just look at it from a point of view of dead horse, which cannot learn new tricks. Linux evolving a lot. So who says that all back log will be just cut out? Maybe it will be there too. We just don't know yet. I don't know, and you don't know it. All we do is guessing. Even of it is not Linux then still fair ****s to valve for doing something new.

As for windows. Not a hope it will be windows based unless valve just want to make a series of prebuilt PC range with valve and steam names on it. And make some basic,pro and enthusiast tiers with super easy steam interface which will say: you need pro valve box to play this game on max settings etc.

I watched some "pach attack" and he has some really interesting stuff said before. He said once that Microsoft would love to kill PC gaming. Why? Because it would force all gamers do windows to switch on to Xbox for gaming, where ge developers will have to pay a cut from their profits to MS. So nooo way MS will make valve it's OS and make a huge competition to it self.
The reason alone that gave commented on windows 8 and started this valve box shows that he want independence from MS, not sinking even deeper in MS monopoly territory.

hooradiation · 11-12-2012 1:37pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Right. Nobody said that it will come with pure Linus OS with a steam desktop shortcut. Limix might be just a base, for completely new OS? Do you get it now?

Which would have the exact same problem as making it run a Linux distro. The vast majority of the steam catalogue would not run on it.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

And yeah, we don't know yet, maybe they already working on a way to make games work on Linux.

Well, that's a waste of time, games can be made to work on Linux. OpenGL is a thing.
The problem is that very few games currently have been made to run on Linux.
No amount of magic (and we are in the realm of magic here) is going to change that.
You *could* try and use something like wine, but now your running a less than optimal emulated version and we're back to what is the point?

let me put it in simple terms:
90%+ of the games on steam don't work on Linux. Why would Valve create a living room PC that wouldn't allow them to take advantage of their single biggest
asset?

ShadowHearth wrote: »

You just look at it from a point of view of dead horse, which cannot learn new tricks. Linux evolving a lot. So who says that all back log will be just cut out?

Valve may have a lot of money, but they're not going to be able to pay for all those titles to be patched for linux support.
This is utter fantasy.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Maybe it will be there too. We just don't know yet. I don't know, and you don't know it. All we do is guessing.

There is a difference between pure speculation and educated guessing.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

As for windows. Not a hope it will be windows based unless valve just want to make a series of prebuilt PC range with valve and steam names on it. And make some basic,pro and enthusiast tiers with super easy steam interface which will say: you need pro valve box to play this game on max settings etc.

And this would be terrible.... why?

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I watched some "pach attack" and he has some really interesting stuff said before. He said once that Microsoft would love to kill PC gaming. Why? Because it would force all gamers do windows to switch on to Xbox for gaming, where ge developers will have to pay a cut from their profits to MS. So nooo way MS will make valve it's OS and make a huge competition to it self.

I don't know what a "pach attack" is, but that argument of theirs you're citing is terrible and they should feel bad.

The market for PC gamers is contracting, but it's still a market in which Microsoft have a near total monopoly and yet they'd "kill" this so that people would then switch to the console market, A market where they don't have a monopoly and have to compete with Sony and Nintendo?
The hysteria of some PC gamers is truly fucking retarded.
Stop listening to these cretins.

This steam box continues microsofts monopoly on PC gaming devices and gives valve a sole selling point for this steam box of theirs. They both win.

If they do anything to the contrary it'll be amazingly risky and it'll probably blow up in their face.
Granted they have the money to absorb such a bad move, but at least it'll be funny.

gizmo · 11-12-2012 1:41pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Right. Nobody said that it will come with pure Linus OS with a steam desktop shortcut. Limix might be just a base, for completely new OS? Do you get it now?

Do you mean new distribution when you say new OS because they're very different things.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

And yeah, we don't know yet, maybe they already working on a way to make games work on Linux. You just look at it from a point of view of dead horse, which cannot learn new tricks. Linux evolving a lot. So who says that all back log will be just cut out? Maybe it will be there too. We just don't know yet. I don't know, and you don't know it. All we do is guessing. Even of it is not Linux then still fair ****s to valve for doing something new.

We do know this because it cannot be done without something along the lines of WINE and there's not a chance in hell they'd sell a machine based around that kind of tech.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

As for windows. Not a hope it will be windows based unless valve just want to make a series of prebuilt PC range with valve and steam names on it. And make some basic,pro and enthusiast tiers with super easy steam interface which will say: you need pro valve box to play this game on max settings etc.

So basically a cheaper Alienware X51 with Steam preinstalled? That to me would be far more interesting than some sort of stripped down PC with access to only one distribution system for gaming.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

The reason alone that gave commented on windows 8 and started this valve box shows that he want independence from MS, not sinking even deeper in MS monopoly territory.

Or to put it another way, Valve want to be the guys getting a cut from every game sold. :pac:

EDIT...

hooradiation wrote: »

I don't know what a "pach attack" is, but that argument of theirs you're citing is terrible and they should feel bad.

It's Michael Pachter's show on GameTrailers and yes, it's as bad as it sounds.

ShadowHearth · 11-12-2012 1:44pm

hooradiation wrote: »

Which would have the exact same problem as making it run a Linux distro. The vast majority of the steam catalogue would not run on it.

Well, that's a waste of time, games can be made to work on Linux. OpenGL is a thing.
The problem is that very few games currently have been made to run on Linux.
No amount of magic (and we are in the realm of magic here) is going to change that.
You *could* try and use something like wine, but now your running a less than optimal emulated version and we're back to what is the point?

let me put it in simple terms:
90%+ of the games on steam don't work on Linux. Why would Valve create a living room PC that wouldn't allow them to take advantage of their single biggest
asset?

Valve may have a lot of money, but they're not going to be able to pay for all those titles to be patched for linux support.
This is utter fantasy.

There is a difference between pure speculation and educated guessing.

And this would be terrible.... why?

I don't know what a "pach attack" is, but that argument of theirs you're citing is terrible and they should feel bad.

The market for PC gamers is contracting, but it's still a market in which Microsoft have a near total monopoly and yet they'd "kill" this so that people would then switch to the console market, A market where they don't have a monopoly and have to compete with Sony and Nintendo?
The hysteria of some PC gamers is truly fucking retarded.
Stop listening to these cretins.

This steam box continues microsofts monopoly on PC gaming devices and gives valve a sole selling point for this steam box of theirs. They both win.

If they do anything to the contrary it'll be amazingly risky and it'll probably blow up in their face.
Granted they have the money to absorb such a bad move, but at least it'll be funny.

what sort of monopoly are you talking about? The only monopoly they got is to sell you a copy of windows, which some people dont upgrade for years. they dont get a cut from each game when it comes to windows. when it comes to xbox, Ms takes a cut from every single item that is being on that xbox. So yeah. selling one copy of windows every couple of years is a lot more profit then sell 10-20 games each year to that same person. the whole new market place on windows 8 is a step to that direction, but MS did not had balls to make it completely locked down like apples stuff, because they would be burned alive for it.

educated speculation my ass... no offence. your speculation is as good as anyones else m8, because we know feck all details on it. I dont know anything, and might i add you dont know a thing on what will be this valve box.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-12-2012 1:49pm

i think it'll probably be running android. steam are running scared of ouya and are trying to crush any sort of indie pc development that doesn't go through their greedy paws so offering what ouya have but "steam" would be a smart move

Myrddin · 11-12-2012 1:51pm

Why does it matter what the hell OS its gonna use?

Its gonna be consolised, work out of the box with steam & just do its thing...why quibble over the OS?

ShadowHearth · 11-12-2012 1:53pm

gizmo wrote: »

Do you mean new distribution when you say new OS because they're very different things.

We do know this because it cannot be done without something along the lines of WINE and there's not a chance in hell they'd sell a machine based around that kind of tech.

So basically a cheaper Alienware X51 with Steam preinstalled? That to me would be far more interesting than some sort of stripped down PC with access to only one distribution system for gaming.

Or to put it another way, Valve want to be the guys getting a cut from every game sold. :pac:

EDIT...

It's Michael Pachter's show on GameTrailers and yes, it's as bad as it sounds.

that allienware was the thing i had in mind. imagine something like that just with valve logo on it? this way it will keep the windows on it and they wont need to work on their own OS.

TB, did said quite well on it too. its in a way a very good news, but scary too. Steam is already quite a monopoly when it comes to digital distribution and the support. wont that new console make them eve bigger monopoly? we might be running from a lion, but straight in to the jaws of tiger.

by the way, who said if valve not just making some sort of new console, which has nothing to do with Pc part of steeam? maybe it is pure new player in console market and wont have steam libary in it at all.

Valve developing steam box console

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