Boards Beef Discussion Group

reilig · 02-05-2012 3:47pm

Atilathehun wrote: »

Slurry and grass seed. You will have a hard time convincing "some", guys on here, that slurry wont instantly kill the grass seed stone dead

But I agree with you. Slurry is mighty to encourage the seed to get moving towards the sky:p

Slurry before the seed is my policy. Then chain harrow it all up before spreading the seed!

Bitten & Hisses · 02-05-2012 7:23pm

For many years, back when we were spreading only with the side spreader, we always put our RVP seeds after the slurry, passing afterwards with a hefty whitethorn to cover them. It gives tremendous results in terms of output, but the disadvantage is having to seed so frequently. I think I might give it a go this year on a field that I don't want to plough, although I will probably spread the seeds before the slurry as I'll be out with the tanker.

1chippy · 02-05-2012 10:43pm

49801 wrote: »

160+VAT for ploughing!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
you have got to be kidding me!
45e for ploughing plus another say 40 for power harrow and 20-25e for the railing.

that leaves 60e an acre for the lad picking stones!

ur sure some1 is not taking the piss!

sorry should have broken it down that includes. ploughing, rotavating, 5 passes with land leveller, sowing, spreading fertiliser and rolling (6ton). Ive kept the hours, labour and giving a rough guess on depreciation and diesel on top and not forgetting insurance and i reckon bad as things are in the building world agri contracting wont make you any richer.

03-05-2012 9:21am

1chippy wrote: »

sorry should have broken it down that includes. ploughing, rotavating, 5 passes with land leveller, sowing, spreading fertiliser and rolling (6ton). Ive kept the hours, labour and giving a rough guess on depreciation and diesel on top and not forgetting insurance and i reckon bad as things are in the building world agri contracting wont make you any richer.

even still!
5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?

KCTK · 03-05-2012 9:54am

49801 wrote: »

even still!
5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?

Why use the rotavator at all after ploughing? A pass or two of a disc harrow should break up the soil perfectly well and definately think 5 passes of a leveler sounds over the top? I have always found that the less passes you can get away with the better. Ususally just spray off the existing grass and power harrow on the driest of the land and plough the damper fields as aids drainage

Tipp Man · 03-05-2012 9:56am

We used a levelling bar once - never again - they are absolutely useless IMO

Pharaoh1 · 03-05-2012 2:25pm

Tipp Man wrote: »

We used a levelling bar once - never again - they are absolutely useless IMO

Don't know a lot about levellers or levelling bars but I'm sure there are different types.
My contractor has a machine on wheels with 5 what are like plough shares turned sideways (but a bit angled) to level the ground and a very light ring roller behind and it does a great job.
I'm not sure about the likes of the simple Fleming type land leveller.

Another thing I see a lot of posters here and on other threads including lime when reseeding. Surely it should only be included if a soil test requires it or is it the opinion that it should go in regardless.

BeeDI · 03-05-2012 2:58pm

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Don't know a lot about levellers or levelling bars but I'm sure there are different types.
My contractor has a machine on wheels with 5 what are like plough shares turned sideways (but a bit angled) to level the ground and a very light ring roller behind and it does a great job.
I'm not sure about the likes of the simple Fleming type land leveller.

Another thing I see a lot of posters here and on other threads including lime when reseeding. Surely it should only be included if a soil test requires it or is it the opinion that it should go in regardless.

Lime is recommended at seeding to counteract the acidity being caused by decaying old grass which has been sprayed off.
As the old stuff decays, it causes a rise in acidity in the seed bed for the new seeds. Not good. Lime in the seed bed will counteract this problem.

larthehar · 03-05-2012 3:22pm

I have tried a good few methods, my latest is a heavy disc harrow. I reseeded 5acres last year, 3 runs of the heavy disc (up/down,over/back,corner to corner), €35/hr, spread with lime, sow seed (Sinclair McGill - Prosper), 18-6-12 @ 3bags/ac and roll. The land had not been reseeded in years and the ground was stony so didn't want a lifetime job of picking!!
Initially i was not awfully happy with the amount of sods left on top of the ground because i had hope to level it. Finally results are excellent to be fair, sods died off and new sward is reaching for the sky!:D

This year i am in two minds of what to do, need to level this field so i am thinking of discing x2/power harrow/level x2/slurry@3kgal per acre/lime/chain harrow and sow. My question being am i wasting money discing?! go straight in with the power harrow (both done by contractors)

Regarding the leveller i think this is a must on 30year old ley.. these fields tend to have those humps and hollows that onky you know about from cutting silage on them.. and the levller makes a new field of it!!

Oh and all of the above were/will be preceded by spraying, 10days before silage or spray and graze tight after 5 days.

Muckit · 03-05-2012 8:01pm

Go straight in with power harrow. One run is plenty. And follow as you did with disc harrow method.

I'd love to try discing next time I reseed

pakalasa · 03-05-2012 8:58pm

Worth a look !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4cZZxEr56w&feature=related

Muckit · 04-05-2012 4:23pm

pakalasa wrote: »

Worth a look !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4cZZxEr56w&feature=related

Yes seen it before. The looking at the roots I thought was a good tip;)

06-05-2012 1:14pm

do you buy off the shelf seed mixtures or you make up your own?

not too knowledgeable about mixtures myself and we usually just buy off the shelf as per the brochure. Have looked at the different mixtures on offer from the different companies but really have no idea how to pick what is the best mixture for us.

insight?

pakalasa · 06-05-2012 7:38pm

Disc Harrow in action;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYX86RvcR0k&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&index=113&feature=plpp_video

Power Harrow in action;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgrFBvrLx0&feature=autoplay&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&playnext=1

Muckit · 06-05-2012 7:43pm

Can we have this topic for this week please?!

1chippy · 06-05-2012 8:23pm

49801 wrote: »

even still!
5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?

He done two up and down one diagonal and two across, not sure in what order. he left it perfect. the rotavator wasnt like the traditional one we would have always used at home. maybe it isnt even called a rotavator but works on the same principle. Regret not asking him now. I asked around with a lot of people and the same name kept coming up for leaving a good finish. There were cheaper options but no one near as particular as he was. he left the ground better than i could do my lawns. It was pretty rough prior to this. the last time it seen a plough it was dragged by a horse not even a 20. There had been a machine driver in for a couple of weeks prior pulling stones, roots and tidying up. I wanted the best job possible and in my own eyes this was the system.I may be completly off the mark but i'll just have to take it on the chin and accept it if its not worth it. discing, power harrowing or any form of direct seed wasnt really a runner in this bit of land.

reilig · 08-05-2012 11:04am

Task 3 – Genetic Merit of Herd –
- Use 5 Star AI on 25% of herd or
- Participate in Gene Ireland or
- Use 5 star stock bull (1 Year) or
- Use 4+ star heifers for fertility or milk (2013)

Discuss!

Muckit · 08-05-2012 11:20am

Does anyone know how the reliability figures work? I mean how can a young breeding bull that has no progeny be giving a reliability figure? Yes based on his parentage etc, but how is this weighted?

Perhaps it's just me, but I find it hard to have any faith in a system where figures are constantly changing. I've never bought a stock bull, but I'd find it hard to go paying out €2,500+ based on figures that could go up and down.

In saying that I think their has to be some system in place to try and help promote better breeding in sucklers, and perhaps this is as good as it gets?

p.s. I know that the ICBF star system is to change somewhat in sept 2012....... more confusion or will it improve things?

BeeDI · 08-05-2012 11:32am

My stock bull is charolais. A son of CF52, and according to his statistics, he scores very badly for both calving difficulty and milk in replacements.

To be quite frank, I never once had a bad calving from him. Very rarely used the jack. Only issue, was one cow who constantly presents her calf with one leg up. Straighten the leg, and she gets on with it.

I also have kept 7 heifers for replacements from him. I cant say they have tons of milk, but they have as much milk in my opinion, as some limousine heifers I have kept form AI bulls, with good scores for milk in offspring.

As they say, "There are three kinds of lies!. Lies, damn lies and statistics":eek:

bogman_bass · 08-05-2012 11:55am

there is no such thing as 100% reliable data. The ICBF figures are a guide they arent gospel and they can change. However they are better then just looking at a bull and guessing from that. A combination of figures, bull apperence and pedigree gives a fuller picture.

a bull with no offspring will get data from the parents average and linier scoring. The reliablity will depend on the reliablity of his perants figures

reilig · 08-05-2012 11:58am

reilig wrote: »

Task 3 – Genetic Merit of Herd –
- Use 5 Star AI on 25% of herd or
- Participate in Gene Ireland or
- Use 5 star stock bull (1 Year) or
- Use 4+ star heifers for fertility or milk

This one is simple for me and one of my measures for this year. I keep a number of pedigree cows who all get 5 star AI. I also use AI BB on 40% of my herd. All will be 5 star and will qualify me for this measure this year!

08-05-2012 12:11pm

what classifies a 5star bull exactly?
is is just 5star sbv or all traits? within breed or across all breeds.

what if your bull decreases in star value in one of the evaluations?

pakalasa · 08-05-2012 1:11pm

I've been using all AI now for the last 6 years or so. I have a lot of faith in the ICBF figures. I find bulls that are easy calving are in fact easy calving. I am trying to calve down heifers at 2 years of age. The heifers are bred from bulls with high maternal calving figures and I use a very easy calving Lim bull on them. To be honest the only calves I have been unhappy with are BB's I bred from plain black limousins. I thought that the BB would bring muscle to the mix, but I ended up with R grade types that were not very growthy.
The figures are not the be all and end all of everything and I would always try a bull on a couple of cows first to see how they breed. Appreciate all the feedback on the different bulls here aswell, especially the photos. Keep them coming......:)

Bizzum · 09-05-2012 10:44am

Two issues that I see as important on the breeding fromt are: Retaining milk in the suckler cow, and gestation length.

Do people find that the quality of milk have an impact? For example, some of the charolais cows to look at you would think they had very little milk. But they do a master job on each calf. Is this down to milk composition or what?
On gestation, I'm getting fed up looking at cows go to 300 or more days. Very hard to get a calf every 365 days at this rate.

09-05-2012 10:59am

Bizzum wrote: »

Two issues that I see as important on the breeding fromt are: Retaining milk in the suckler cow, and gestation length.

Do people find that the quality of milk have an impact? For example, some of the charolais cows to look at you would think they had very little milk. But they do a master job on each calf. Is this down to milk composition or what?
On gestation, I'm getting fed up looking at cows go to 300 or more days. Very hard to get a calf every 365 days at this rate.

Was at a farm walk last year and there was a similar observation made. The quality of the milk should not be determined by the udder size!
weanling weight is a far better indicator.

blue5000 · 09-05-2012 11:26am

reilig wrote: »

Discuss!

Does it matter how many traits your stock bull has to have 5 stars for to qualify?

Muckit · 09-05-2012 12:10pm

49801 wrote: »

what classifies a 5star bull exactly?
is is just 5star sbv or all traits? within breed or across all breeds.

what if your bull decreases in star value in one of the evaluations?

Some excellent questions. I would like to know the answers to these aswell! :rolleyes: I doubt they could be explained simply in one sentence without falling asleep!

And they are doing away with SBV now from Sept! As if we weren't confused enough!!

Muckit · 09-05-2012 12:14pm

reilig wrote: »

This one is simple for me ..... pedigree cows who get 5 star AI. I also use AI BB on 40% of herd, all will be 5 star!

What qualifies a bull as being 5star AI?

Is it 5 ***** SBV or 5 ***** in any one trait?

And is it within breed or across all breeds????

Muckit · 09-05-2012 12:21pm

more ranting...:D

5star AI is one thing, where the reliability can be 90% + I back this inititative 100%. It is transparent, straight forward and the figures can be vouched for.

But a '5 star' stock bull that has only 25-30% reliability is ridiculous! Does the 5star stock bull or 4star heifers have to have a certain reliability figure to qualify? If not, the whole thing is one big joke IMHO.

bogman_bass · 09-05-2012 12:37pm

Muckit wrote: »

more ranting...:D

5star AI is one thing, where the reliability can be 90% + I back this inititative 100%. It is transparent, straight forward and the figures can be vouched for.

But a '5 star' stock bull that has only 25-30% reliability is ridiculous! Does the 5star stock bull or 4star heifers have to have a certain reliability figure to qualify? If not, the whole thing is one big joke IMHO.

A female cant have huge relability simply because there isnt the data to back it up. while a bull in AI can have thousands of progeny a cow will probably have 10 calves max.

To have 90% + relability you would need about 100 calves on the ground

The change of figures between proof runs will have to be addresed for the sceme no doubt. I presume if they are 5 stars at breeding then they qualify

Boards Beef Discussion Group

Comments