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ESB to create new fibre powered ISP

  • 15-09-2012 11:15am
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    It is already being discussed over on the Eircom Fibre thread, but I think this is huge news, the biggest news in the Irish Broadband market since UPC came to Ireland and thus deserves it's own thread.

    It looks like the ESB are looking to create a new ISP in a joint venture where they will run their own fibre optic cable to the home using the ESB's overhead electrical poles and ducts:

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP384475

    This is massive news as it brings another very large and wealthy player to the market, but most importantly brings a third completely independent network to the market and it looks like they will be using the best and fastest technology available and have an advantage of using the ESB's existing infrastructure.

    If done right, this could really shake up the Irish broadband market.

    From the tender docs they say they plan on targeting urban and semi-urban areas outside Dublin. This sounds like they want to target non-rural areas not already serviced by UPC.

    This makes a lot of sense, while Eircom might be targeting the same areas with their new VDSL2+ products, ESB's fibre to the building products would be able to offer speeds and prices that would easily blow Eircom away. However it would be much harder for them to compete with UPC, due to UPC's already high speeds.

    Interestingly the ESB won't actually be selling broadband directly to customers, instead they will act as wholesalers and other ISP's can then buy capacity on the network to sell to customers.

    I can certainly see BT (and thus Vodafone and Sky who use BT's network) signing up for this.

    Interestingly UPC could also sign up to use it, to offer broadband and IPTV in areas they currently don't service.

    Eircom would be the big losers with this news. However eventually they could also use this network, if they still exist!!

    Very interesting times ahead :D


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭red dave


    That's interestingly interesting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    When could we anticipate movement on this. 2/3 years?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Liamario wrote: »
    When could we anticipate movement on this. 2/3 years?

    Well if they do go ahead, I would expect quick movement on this over the next few months.

    Now is their opportunity to do this, when Eircom are so weak and UPC haven't thought about expanding outside their core network yet.

    Also it isn't actually particularly hard to do, the ESB already have a good fibre network and good experience of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Interesting and exciting. The problem in my area with UPC is cables hanging everywhere and neighbours stopping cables hanging from their homes- therefore there are black spots.
    UPC/eircom will either feel pressured to compete, or they will piggyback on Electric Ireland's network.

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Either of them, but more likely UPC, could actually bid to be the joint venture partner as it would give them reach to non-cabled areas and much better duct access even in cabled areas where some housing estates / streets had patchy coverage due to lack of access for runs of coax.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I imagine the ESB aren't the only national electricity company that has ducting going to a large number of premises. Has any other country rolled out wide scale FTTH this way?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    You are entirely mistaken if you think they will duct most of this network. It will be strung overhead in the main.

    http://www.prysmianusa.com/export/sites/prysmian-enNA/attach/pdf/Telecom/Technical_Literature_Methods_and_Procedures/MP_1012_Issue_3.pdf


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    So they're not going to compete with UPC in Dublin? Definitely another blow to eircom right now..
    But it's very interesting and yeah it's massive and deserves it's own thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    A most welcome development. The possibilities are endless. And ESB are in a very strong financial position too, so this proposal is well within their compass. Will be very interesting to see who the future partner(s) will be. For the ordinary punter, urban or rural, it brings the possibility of having bb via fibre within reach is a possibly short timeframe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    I am cautiously optimistic about this news. It could be wonderful for the country if the ESB are really serious about a rollout. They are the ideal company for such a task.

    Have any other power company around done this before?

    Who will get into bed with the ESB? Who would we want?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    Praetorian wrote: »
    I am cautiously optimistic about this news. It could be wonderful for the country if the ESB are really serious about a rollout. They are the ideal company for such a task.

    Have any other power company around done this before?

    Who will get into bed with the ESB? Who would we want?

    I live in rural north Dublin, and can get UPC TV service but not their broadband, but the town 3km up the road has it, does this mean technically if they got into bed with UPC, UPC just use ESB cables and are able to provide their full service?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I live in rural north Dublin, and can get UPC TV service but not their broadband, but the town 3km up the road has it, does this mean technically if they got into bed with UPC, UPC just use ESB cables and are able to provide their full service?

    Potentially Eircom could be your best bet for fast broadband as they will probably rollout to most areas in north Dublin eventually. UPC may also upgrade the area where you are so you can get their full services.

    This ESB startup may never happen or we could be years away from actual products being rolled out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    Praetorian wrote: »
    Fieldog wrote: »
    I live in rural north Dublin, and can get UPC TV service but not their broadband, but the town 3km up the road has it, does this mean technically if they got into bed with UPC, UPC just use ESB cables and are able to provide their full service?

    Potentially Eircom could be your best bet for fast broadband as they will probably rollout to most areas in north Dublin eventually. UPC may also upgrade the area where you are so you can get their full services.

    This ESB startup may never happen or we could be years away from actual products being rolled out.

    Eircom and repackaged Eircom (I.e Voda DSL) is all I get anyway, and Vodafone say they could not guarantee any improvement over my 4mb...

    Even if this brought me up to 10mb I would be pretty happy, preferably without Eircom in the picture as its just so expensive with line rental etc ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    Praetorian wrote: »
    .... This ESB startup may never happen or we could be years away from actual products being rolled out.

    Yeah ESB announced a similar deal with Smart Telecom years ago, promising wonderful things, nothing ever came of it as far as I know.

    I notice these ESB good news stories frequently coincide with ESB price rises ..... :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Oracle wrote: »
    Yeah ESB announced a similar deal with Smart Telecom years ago

    Still in use. The major NATIONAL network apart from eircoms is the ESB Network. However this network goes nowhere near businesses or residential areas and only sells capacity to Telcos....or Heanet between Dublin Galway Cork etc. The announcement is about connecting NON Telco premises and reselling those connections wholesale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Oracle


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    ..... The announcement is about connecting NON Telco premises and reselling those connections wholesale.

    The joint venture promised increases in broadband speed, availability, capacity and services that where never delivered:
    .... This new infrastructure, along with changes in the regulatory environment for LLU will potentially allow Smart Telecom to target up to 1.5 million consumers with high capacity broadband services, a threefold increase of its current target market.

    Smart Telecom will use this capacity to provide for the rollout of high capacity business and residential services, including IPTV.

    With the impending ‘Next Generation’ strategy due for publication by the Minister for Communications, Eamon Ryan, later this week, Smart Telecom’s enhanced capacity will also potentially enable a significant increase in Smart’s LLU (Local loop unbundling) coverage.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Eamon Ryan never delivered anything either, apart from wind. Smart were simply customers of the ESB Fibre network...probably still are as Digiweb.


  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭MrO


    Oracle wrote: »
    The joint venture promised increases in broadband speed, availability, capacity and services that where never delivered:

    As SB said, that was not a joint venture.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Also UPC do use the ESB fibre network outside Dublin allowing UPC to deliver speeds up to 100mb. So the ESB did deliver on what they originally promised.

    I believe BT may also be using the ESB fibre network.

    Anyway this is a whole different premise, delivering fibre to individual buildings and homes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭swoofer


    dont get too excited these are the words " ESB is considering the feasibility of establishing a joint venture company to deploy fibre to the building (“FTTB”). "

    in other words a load of bs.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    bk wrote: »
    Anyway this is a whole different premise, delivering fibre to individual buildings and homes.

    I doubt that they will be dropping fiber into every home in the country, I am thinking that this could be a commercial version of the home plugs that are already in use to extend ones Ethernet through their current house wiring.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    dont get too excited these are the words " ESB is considering the feasibility of establishing a joint venture company to deploy fibre to the building (“FTTB”). "

    in other words a load of bs.....

    While it may or may not work out, I certainly wouldn't call it bs. They certainly wouldn't go to all the trouble of putting out a tender for this unless they were very serious about it.

    The ESB have a very good reputation. They are wry well regarded internationally an have helped many third world countries build their power stations an electrical networks.

    They are also well regarded in the telecommunications industry, with their existing fibre network.

    Putting all this together has massive potential. Yes it may not happen, but everyone in Ireland takes the ESB very serious. They don't have a reputation for bs, unlike Eircom.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Big Lar wrote: »
    I doubt that they will be dropping fiber into every home in the country, I am thinking that this could be a commercial version of the home plugs that are already in use to extend ones Ethernet through their current house wiring.

    While they obviously won't drop fibre to every house in the country it definitely isn't homeplug. Read the tender document I linked to above, it specifically says they want to build a FTTB network in urban and semi urban areas outside of Dublin.

    FTTB means fibre to the building/basement. So while it might not necessarily mean fibre to every individual home, it will at least mean fibre to the basement of an apartment building or groups of homes, which could then be feed by Ethernet or VDSL over the last few meters.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It isnt outdoor homeplug (powerline bb) the ESB trialled 2 variants of that in TUAM some years back and both were ****e.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    Whatever it will be, Do you think that they are in coohoots with Pat Rabbit to get the minimum 30mbs to all Ireland for the end of 2015.
    NO SNIGGERING.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Bill Shock


    Big Lar wrote: »
    Whatever it will be, Do you think that they are in coohoots with Pat Rabbit to get the minimum 30mbs to all Ireland for the end of 2015.
    NO SNIGGERING.

    And do you seriously think ESB would be embarking on this without DCENR knowing about it (from both a telecoms policy perspective and as shareholder)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    I too am cautiously optimistic about this announcement. If it works by stringing fiber up on polls, it would be brilliant to get to people who can't get a decent service.

    More competition is a good thing no?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 4,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shane732


    Sweet I was looking forward to 100mb broadband.

    I hear the ESB will have this done by Christmas!!

    :D:D:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Would it be possible for a company to piggy back on Irish Rail's fibre network which is country wide from what I understand?


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    luzon wrote: »
    Would it be possible for a company to piggy back on Irish Rail's fibre network which is country wide from what I understand?

    BT already make use of it and other companies could of course rent capacity on it too.

    National fibre really isn't a problem, there is an awful lot of fibre in Ireland already, it is fibre to the last mile (to the home) that is the issue.


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