General Election 2012

talkinyite · 01-03-2012 9:57am

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

So, if you don't vote FG you're bitter? They don't seem to be doing anything different than a FF government would have done/do.

They locked down Dublin and Cork, snipers on rooftops and all, so the one from next door could parade around for a bit

I don't think FF would have done that.

Dubit10 · 01-03-2012 9:59am

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I will never under any circumstances vote Sinn Fein and anyone who would consider voting for a party with SF's history and connections needs to seriously rethink their ideas and beliefs.

I will vote FG as I am not as bitter as many and I can see that they are doing what they have to to get us out a situation that was not their fault, but that they were left to clean up when the cowards in FF ran.

FG have gone back on most of their election promises, yes FF are cowards but imo FG are as bad.

Sunnyisland · 01-03-2012 10:02am

Audrey Hepburn wrote: »

I will never under any circumstances vote Sinn Fein and anyone who would consider voting for a party with SF's history and connections needs to seriously rethink their ideas and beliefs.

I will vote FG as I am not as bitter as many and I can see that they are doing what they have to to get us out a situation that was not their fault, but that they were left to clean up when the cowards in FF ran.

And FG don't have history & connections ?. FF,FG,LABOUR have all connections to militant Republicanism and in four years time will be going out of there way to show how they are proud to have them connections.

:(As for who will I vote for in a GE,Even though I have voted SF last time I dont really know,getting a bit sick of the lot of them at this stage:mad:

Nothingbetter2d · 01-03-2012 11:27am

donvito99 wrote: »

A vote for Sinn Féin is a vote for Ireland Ink.

to be fair at least SF keep cartridge world staff employed.

lugha · 01-03-2012 7:28pm

talkinyite wrote: »

That's actually hilarious did you know FG has a history of connections to fascism?

Ah yes, “history of connections to”. What a sinister sounding, but ultimately meaningless expression. The German chancellor, or her office, has “historical connections” to Nazism etc.

Can you point to any examples of fascist behavior/attitudes amongst contemporary (i.e. not dead for decades!) FG folks?

If you are looking for anti-democracy types in the current Dail, you need not look past Sinn Fein. And their connections aren’t yet very historical!

And even if there wasn’t this “difficulty” with them, only the most willfully deluded would think they, or any other party, would have done any better in the last year than FG/Lab.

MetalDog · 01-03-2012 7:31pm

Poll needs more options there OP.

dvpower · 01-03-2012 8:23pm

So the poll so far has SF with an overall majority:eek: - these Boards polls are completely worthless.

Toby Take a Bow · 01-03-2012 8:30pm

dvpower wrote: »

So the poll so far has SF with an overall majority:eek: - these Boards polls are completely worthless.

The poll is surely supposed to give a snapshot of AHers who check this thread. So, eh, yeah, you're right, kind of pointless. Especially so, given that the ULA aren't represented, yet have more parliamentary representation than the Greens, who are represented.

LordSutch · 01-03-2012 8:49pm

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

to be fair at least SF keep cartridge world staff employed.

I'm sure they've seen their fair share of cartridges, back in the day

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsE2xT3LEXvIluQtJ6EDKVflITI22WAXVTExQsV00cusrSDxs0

AskMyChocolate · 01-03-2012 9:07pm

lugha wrote: »

Ah yes, “history of connections to”. What a sinister sounding, but ultimately meaningless expression. The German chancellor, or her office, has “historical connections” to Nazism etc.

Can you point to any examples of fascist behavior/attitudes amongst contemporary (i.e. not dead for decades!) FG folks?

If you are looking for anti-democracy types in the current Dail, you need not look past Sinn Fein. And their connections aren’t yet very historical!

And even if there wasn’t this “difficulty” with them, only the most willfully deluded would think they, or any other party, would have done any better in the last year than FG/Lab.

The treatment of the Irish citizens (on their deathbeds), who were the victims of the Hepatitis C scandal, by your Minister for Finance when he was Minister for Health may be something you may care to defend? After all, what's the lives of a few plebs, and their entitlement to justice, when compared with the reputations of the medical elite and the Dept. of Health? Shur, some of them weren't even graduates.

On your second point, even Colm McCarthy (An Bord Snip), a rabid SF hater, and darling of the Far-Right, admitted on National television, that he'd far rather have Pearse Doherty, negotiating in Brussels on behalf of the Irish people , than Michael Noonan.

And while I may detest McCarthy, and what he stands for, I'm not sure I'd call him wilfully deluded, and to hear someone from FG call him so, given his relationship with the Govt. seems a bit ironic.

lugha · 01-03-2012 9:22pm

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

The treatment of the Irish citizens (on their deathbeds), who were the victims of the Hepatitis C scandal, by your Minister for Finance when he was Minister for Health may be something you may care to defend? After all, what's the lives of a few plebs, and their entitlement to justice, when compared with the reputations of the medical elite and the Dept. of Health? Shur, some of them weren't even graduates.

And this amount to fascism, how exactly?

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

On your second point, even Colm McCarthy (An Bord Snip), a rabid SF hater, and darling of the Far-Right, admitted on National television, that he'd far rather have Pearse Doherty, negotiating in Brussels on behalf of the Irish people , than Michael Noonan.

And while I may detest McCarthy, and what he stands for, I'm not sure I'd call him wilfully deluded, and to hear someone from FG call him so, given his relationship with the Govt. seems a bit ironic.

And what do you think good ‘ol Pearsey might achieve? The fine speeches he makes that impress the gullible types around here won’t achieve much. We need the cheap money and we have precious little leverage to negotiate more favourable terms.

Unless you think we should go nuclear and perhaps sell one of our islands to the Chinese or Iran or something like that?

Oh, and I’m not "from" FG, or Labour. They are the best option at the moment only because the others are so bad.

Toby Take a Bow · 01-03-2012 10:04pm

I think people suggesting that Sinn Fein will do anything different from the current lot should take a look at how they handle things in Northern Ireland. They spout a lot of rhetoric, but, faced with government, they seem to backtrack. Unless there's a serious difference between the two parties in the two different jurisdictions.

Conchir · 01-03-2012 10:43pm

Do most people here pick one party to vote for, regardless of who the candidates are in your constituency? I can't vote yet, but I would imagine when I can, I'll pick candidates individually, based on, y'know, their politics. From most of the replies it appears people pick a party, and not the individuals. Just strikes me as a bit strange.

Fromthetrees · 01-03-2012 10:44pm

I like cheese.

Stinicker · 01-03-2012 10:57pm

Pretty sad to see there is still around 10% of brain dead people willing to vote for Fianna Fail.

AskMyChocolate · 01-03-2012 11:11pm

lugha wrote: »

And this amount to fascism, how exactly?
And what do you think good ‘ol Pearsey might achieve? The fine speeches he makes that impress the gullible types around here won’t achieve much. We need the cheap money and we have precious little leverage to negotiate more favourable terms.

Unless you think we should go nuclear and perhaps sell one of our islands to the Chinese or Iran or something like that?

Oh, and I’m not "from" FG, or Labour. They are the best option at the moment only because the others are so bad.

Well, it wasn't exactly fascism I was referring to, although an authoritarian elite claiming to be acting in the interest of the citizenry they purport to represent, is something, a lot of people would tend to associate with fascism. It was said more, in response, to your morally superior attitude towards SF, and your implication that FG's questionable moral behaviour is historical; borne out by your request for contemporary examples. I merely gave you one.

Btw, I noticed, you sidestepped the issue of defending his behaviour. Given his history, what makes you think he would act in the interests of the citizenry or justice?

It is impossible to know what Doherty may or may not achieve. He certainly couldn't achieve much less, and again while I don't have much time for Colm Mc Carthy (or George Soros or Warren Buffet for that matter) I'm not sure that I'd sneeringly refer to them as "gullible types".

The only thing that is certain is that if you don't point out that you are not responsible for debts and instead scream from the rooftops that you intend to honour them, the creditors sure as hell aren't going to stop you.
Pointing out that if European governments choose to save the private banking sector, then the burden must be shared equally by the citizenry of Europe would be a good place to start.

We actually have quite a lot of leverage, and not just legal, moral and judicial. We actually have far more leverage than Greece had as their problems stemmed solely from their own sovereign debt and lack of fiscal responsibility, whereas ours stemmed from this but also to a huge degree from doing what was necessary to save the private European banking sector from going into meltdown. Greece have managed to have all bondholders burnt to the tune of 70%.

I don't see what your problem is with selling our islands to China and Iran. We've already agreed to sell them our forests.

Btw, for what it's worth, I'm not pro-SF myself, but like yourself, I just see them as the best of a bad lot at the moment.

Phill Ewinn · 01-03-2012 11:28pm

23 people would vote traitor again (FF, Green) in the next election. WTF?

JoeGil · 01-03-2012 11:29pm

The economic mess left behind by FF is of catastrophic proportions and rules them out of any consideration of a vote for at least the next decade.

It will take at least another 5 years to clear the debris and given the good progress made to date in clearing up the mess FG / Lab would have to be first preference.

SF / the left have taken the populist route, creating the impression that there is some sort of quick and easy solution to the disaster - there isn't. Once the dust settles people will see through this for what it is.

Phill Ewinn · 01-03-2012 11:36pm

FF/FG supported the fraud that was committed when Anglo was guaranteed and subsequently bailed out.

Their mates mean more to them than any child, old person, sick person or jobless person in this country.

AskMyChocolate · 01-03-2012 11:36pm

Conchir wrote: »

Do most people here pick one party to vote for, regardless of who the candidates are in your constituency? I can't vote yet, but I would imagine when I can, I'll pick candidates individually, based on, y'know, their politics. From most of the replies it appears people pick a party, and not the individuals. Just strikes me as a bit strange.

Your position would be absolutely right if the governing of the country was not done under the Party whip system (where politicians are forced to vote a certain way). Even so, you will have noticed that we have far more independents this time around, because more people are starting to think like you. Your way of voting is generally more common in council elections.

An independent's power to affect policy is generally very limited, unless the government holds a slim majority, and in this scenario, independents tend to act in the interest of their constituents rather than the National interest. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Although, the technical group, formed by the smaller parties and independents in this Dail, is a refreshing and welcome new departure imo.

K-9 · 01-03-2012 11:42pm

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Your position would be absolutely right if the governing of the country was not done under the Party whip system (where politicians are forced to vote a certain way). Even so, you will have noticed that we have far more independents this time around, because more people are starting to think like you. Your way of voting is generally more common in council elections.

An independent's power to affect policy is generally very limited, unless the government holds a slim majority, and in this scenario, independents tend to act in the interest of their constituents rather than the National interest. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Although, the technical group, formed by the smaller parties and independents in this Dail, is a refreshing and welcome new departure imo.

I do think a couple of Independents got voted in that are more interested in national issue, Shane Ross and the lad from Wicklow, name escapes me, much as Ross wouldn't be my cup of tea. Then you have the usuals and people like Wallace.

AskMyChocolate · 01-03-2012 11:45pm

JoeGil wrote: »

The economic mess left behind by FF is of catastrophic proportions and rules them out of any consideration of a vote for at least the next decade.

It will take at least another 5 years to clear the debris and given the good progress made to date in clearing up the mess FG / Lab would have to be first preference.

SF / the left have taken the populist route, creating the impression that there is some sort of quick and easy solution to the disaster - there isn't. Once the dust settles people will see through this for what it is.

Aah, come on now chief, I don't think any party on the right or the left (or any independent for that matter) has tried to claim that there is a silver bullet to deal with the economic disaster left by the catastrophic incompetence of the last government.

squod · 01-03-2012 11:50pm

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Aah, come on now chief, I don't think any party on the right or the left (or any independent for that matter) has tried to claim that there is a silver bullet to deal with the economic disaster left by the catastrophic incompetence of the last government.

Least they could do is lock up those responsible.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0425/economy.html

Bailing out Anglo is economic treason says An Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/bailing-out-anglo-is-economic-treason-says-an-tanaiste-eamon-gilmore/

Phill Ewinn · 02-03-2012 12:04am

''Ms Burton says all those who sat around the
Cabinet table of the last government need to come
before a Dáil inquiry to answer questions about
what happened.''

She had her say on Vinnie Brown. She was there herself and opposed the idea of the guarantees for Anglo.

Can't find the clip but fairplay to her for that at least.

AskMyChocolate · 02-03-2012 12:15am

K-9 wrote: »

I do think a couple of Independents got voted in that are more interested in national issue, Shane Ross and the lad from Wicklow, name escapes me, much as Ross wouldn't be my cup of tea. Then you have the usuals and people like Wallace.

I agree. I remember posting in the election results thread how it was a good day for the right and the left when Ross and Joe Higgins topped the poll. I wouldn't agree with either of their politics, but, neither are gombeen men. They both act in what they believe to be the interests of ALL the people (by their own lights) and seem to be men of integrity. Would Stephen Donnelly be the bloke you're thinking of ?

K-9 · 02-03-2012 12:22am

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

I agree. I remember posting in the election results thread how it was a good day for the right and the left when Ross and Joe Higgins topped the poll. I wouldn't agree with either of their politics, but, neither are gombeen men. They both act in what they believe to be the interests of ALL the people (by their own lights) and seem to be men of integrity. Would Stephen Donnelly be the bloke you're thinking of ?

Got it in one, seems a bit lost though through no fault of his own. Higgins and Ross get all the publicity and TV exposure! I suppose he's new to the scene and those 2 are around for years.

LordSutch · 02-03-2012 12:40am

Stinicker wrote: »

Pretty sad to see there is still around 10% of brain dead people willing to vote for Fianna Fail.

Indeed, but at least they have some sense of a moral compass (murder is murder even in the FF book), unlike the other 10% of voters who would even consider voting for Sinn Fein whose moral compass is totally *ucked. The shinners also have a generous smattering of ex PIRA personnel in their ranks!!! reason enough for me to steer clear. And bad and all as Fianna Fail are, I would rather give them a 2nd place vote over those loudmouth heckling S Effers, with my 1st place vote going to FG of course

)

AskMyChocolate · 02-03-2012 12:42am

K-9 wrote: »

Got it in one, seems a bit lost though through no fault of his own. Higgins and Ross get all the publicity and TV exposure! I suppose he's new to the scene and those 2 are around for years.

Yeah, it's a pity alright, as he is excellent. However, Ross and Higgins were the obvious choices to lead the technical group, due to their experience of Leinster House and how it works. Otherwise, the new independents would have been sidelined and led up the garden path by the old hands. At least he'll learn the ropes, and, if re-elected,know where to go, and how to go about getting things done and making his voice heard.

On the bright side, though, Claire Daly doesn't get much speaking time either. Every cloud has a silver lining.:pac:

K-9 · 02-03-2012 12:51am

LordSutch wrote: »

Indeed, but at least they have some sense of a moral compass (murder is murder even in the FF book), unlike the other 10% of voters who would even consider voting for Sinn Fein whose moral compass is totally *ucked. The shinners also have a generous smattering of ex PIRA personnel in their ranks!!! reason enough for me to steer clear. And bad and all as Fianna Fail are, I would rather give them a 2nd place vote over those loudmouth heckling S Effers, with my 1st place vote going to FG of course )

Tell us what you really think!

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Yeah, it's a pity alright, as he is excellent. However, Ross and Higgins were the obvious choices to lead the technical group, due to their experience of Leinster House and how it works. Otherwise, the new independents would have been sidelined and led up the garden path by the old hands. At least he'll learn the ropes, and, if re-elected,know where to go, and how to go about getting things done and making his voice heard.

On the bright side, though, Claire Daly doesn't get much speaking time either. Every cloud has a silver lining.:pac:

Ah poor ould Claire, excellent councilor by all accounts but ould Vincent just has her for dinner. Another SWP Councilor was on Browne's show about the Treaty and she just kept repeating austerity, as in "fire, Fire, FIRE" as a means of debate!

Doherty of SF is an excellent speaker but again prone to awkward silences under tough questioning, same as them all really, or else they just go "look, squirrel" and hope the interviewer gets sidetracked.

pancakes rule · 02-03-2012 12:54am

I'd be voting ULA candidates all the way. Joe Higgins is a ledge. Imma call for a socialist revolution.

General Election 2012

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