West-on-Track/Supporters Need Love and Understanding

OurLadyofKnock · 02-02-2012 1:27am #1

We should feel pity and sympathy for these people. They are obviously in a world of magical thinking. The Western Rail Corridor supporter is in need of care and tolerance. God love them. They should be reintergrated into society and not mocked.

http://www.westontrack.com/

"The real scandal in the story of the Western rail Corridor is not that the project went ahead but that it was undermined from within from the very beginning.
"The Department of Transport can no longer hide behind the mantra that this is "an operational matter for Iarnród Éireann." Rather it is the duty of the Department and the National Transport Authority to ensure that the investment made by the taxpayer is seen to bear fruit," said a spokesman.

starviewadams · 02-02-2012 3:12am

Do they want the DOT/NTA to kidnap people,drop them to the station and force them to pay to use the WRC?!

coylemj · 02-02-2012 3:50am

The fcuking nerve of them! First they get the project approved using doctored and wildly optimistic passenger numbers, then when they imaginary passengers fail to materialise they blame everyone else.....

it is the duty of the Department and the National Transport Authority to ensure that the investment made by the taxpayer is seen to bear fruit

No it is not, it's up to those numpty boggers to produce the passengers (paying real fares, not pensioners out for a free day trip) or admit that they told a pack of lies to get the service established.

Cookie_Monster · 02-02-2012 4:51am

Do we really need another thread on this

WRC = disaster
West on track = raving loons

/thread

corktina · 02-02-2012 9:51am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Do we really need another thread on this

WRC = disaster
West on track = raving loons

/thread

Nope, youv'e summed it up well there.:)

The problem however is that the main thread on it has been hidden on Train and Rail for ,I suspect boards political reasons. T&R is supposed to be for heritage/ railfan posts.

Jehuty42 · 02-02-2012 1:38pm

While I do agree that IE/NTA could do a lot more to promote the line and improve the timetable, there's really no point in doing so, so why should they bother? The demand simply isn't there, there aren't enough people living in the areas served to justify the line, hence why the consultant's report into its feasibility very clearly laid out it would need a massive subsidy. Everybody clued into transport in this country knows this. The only support I've ever seen for WRC is a few posters on IRN, and they are actually the minority over there!

By all means, try to make a go of it and start a through Waterford-Limerick-Galway regional service carefully timetabled for maximum interchange to sweat the assets and consolidate operation(if we insist on keeping these lines open at all), but don't expect anything to actually ever make the WRC section less of a white elephant.

murphaph · 02-02-2012 1:59pm

Rather it is the duty of the Department and the National Transport Authority to ensure that the investment made by the taxpayer is seen to bear fruit

They don't even care if it bears actual fruit, just so long as the optics are right.

Mrs OBumble · 02-02-2012 2:08pm

Many people with ASD have train fixations. All people with ASD need more love and understanding than most.

Not that I'm saying anything specifically about the WOT people, of course.

corktina · 02-02-2012 2:24pm

just as well you added the smilie. :mad:

I have never heard of any disproportionate tendency for people afflicted with any ailment to be fixated on Railways.

I'm pretty well fixated on them myself.

Vic_08 · 02-02-2012 4:27pm

murphaph wrote: »

They don't even care if it bears actual fruit, just so long as the optics are right.

Simple, compel by law all residents of Connaught to undertake 4 return trips per year between Athenry and Ennis. Just buying the tickets and not turning up will not be allowed, names will be taken.

pigtown · 03-02-2012 12:17am

I don't understand why so many posters blame the failure of the WRC on WoT. It doesn't matter what they claimed would happen or demanded should happen, at the end of the day WoT did not give the go-ahead for the project. I assume they had no say in what kind of a service was put on the line, what route was chosen or indeed if the WRC would go ahead at all. The people to blame are the officials in the Department and the minister.
Sure you can complain about WoT for many, many reasons, but it's not their fault that the line is a failure.

Cookie_Monster · 03-02-2012 12:55am

pigtown wrote: »

The people to blame are the officials in the Department and the minister.
Sure you can complain about WoT for many, many reasons, but it's not their fault that the line is a failure.

the blame lies with WoT and the voters down there who pressured and voted in TD who said they'd get it done. WoT also produced lots of ridiculous figures to back their agenda and used these to further pressure gov to do it

pigtown · 03-02-2012 1:07am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the blame lies with WoT and the voters down there who pressured and voted in TD who said they'd get it done. WoT also produced lots of ridiculous figures to back their agenda and used these to further pressure gov to do it

Exactly my point. Govt. did it. They could have said no. It could not have happened without the govt.s approval. Also as I mentioned in another thread, I never got a sense that any significant number of voters actually cared if this line came into being.

foggy_lad · 03-02-2012 1:19am

pigtown wrote: »

Exactly my point. Govt. did it. They could have said no. It could not have happened without the govt.s approval. Also as I mentioned in another thread, I never got a sense that any significant number of voters actually cared if this line came into being.

Government only did what the people of the Whest wanted them to do and the people of the whest got it so so wrong but they were easily led by the ranting and raving of the greatest supporters of the western rail corridor. the people most likely voted for this just to shut the supporters up?

coylemj · 03-02-2012 1:50am

Let's face it, the country was awash with so much money that the Govt. didn't know what to do with it...

The Irish civil service was the best paid in Europe
Workers in the ESB and Bord Gais were (still are) the best paid energy sector workers in Europe
Teachers and nurses here were getting roughly double what they're paid in the UK
The state Old Age Pension in the south was (still is) twice what it is in the UK
Charlie McCreevey had so much to spend that he gave medical cards to the over 70s with no means test before negotiating a deal with the doctors as a result of which the exchequer got completely screwed

So what was the problem splashing some cash west of the Shannon for a toy railway?

dowlingm · 03-02-2012 6:21am

pigtown wrote: »

I don't understand why so many posters blame the failure of the WRC on WoT. It doesn't matter what they claimed would happen or demanded should happen, at the end of the day WoT did not give the go-ahead for the project. I assume they had no say in what kind of a service was put on the line, what route was chosen or indeed if the WRC would go ahead at all. The people to blame are the officials in the Department and the minister.
Sure you can complain about WoT for many, many reasons, but it's not their fault that the line is a failure.

Bollocks. I'm sorry, but bollocks. Either you are ignorant of WoT's attitude or you are aware of it and don't care. I've been following this project for a decade if not more. WoT had no interest whatever in priorities or in cost benefit analyses. They were given a report by McCann which only barely allowed Ennis-Athenry as viable and wrote off Claremorris-Collooney entirely and yet the WoTters declared the whole shooting match endorsed. They live in another plane of reality. All that mattered was that the West got something and that something had to be North-South when what was needed was Oranmore station and capacity increase between Portarlington and Athlone. Meanwhile Clonsilla-Navan was deferred (resulting in the project being ultimately truncated) and Midleton-Cork was completed years after the LUTS/CASP led development in the catchment had happened. We're still waiting for Blarney Station, and for the East Platform at Limerick Junction. Even if you discard those four, there were dozens of other projects which could have been picked ahead of this one - but IE wasn't allowed to pick, they were told BUILD IT, because the West must have parity of esteem no matter that it's burning 100m euro in capital and more again in subsidy. WoT might have exploited political weakness but don't make them out as ingénues, they knew what they were at.

corktina · 03-02-2012 10:46am

i don't see how anyone can excuse WoT of blame in this waste.

Without their downright lies and bully boy tactics, noone would have been looking for the line to be built.

dowlingm is right...an extra platform at LJ or a station at Oranmore would have been of REAL benefit to the West, but as these would also benefit those bastards from Dublin, they werent wanted. WoT wanted their pound-of-flesh to balance spending on rail in Dublin...the economics didn't matter to them , they just wanted "their share"

pigtown · 03-02-2012 3:04pm

Right I'm obviously fighting a losing battle here. I'll set out my stall and if you agree with me, or even can just see my point of view then great. If you don't then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm speaking as someone who hasn't really been following the campaign, live in county Limerick, don't know anyone who ever cared about the WRC either way, and have used the service twice.

I believe WoT are naive, unrealistic and unwilling to compromise. The WRC was never really viable (certainly without spending money on new alaignments and commuter stations) and has certainly proved to be less than a success.

I lay the blame for this firmly at the Departments feet. At the end of the day their function is to ensure that the money goes to the right place and is spent on projects that are properly studied and costed.

You cannot blame people for campaigning for something, however unrealistic or stupid their claim is. You certainly can't blame the people of the 'Whest' as they are ignorantly called. I can't remember the WRC ever being a major issue with voters, and even if it was it should have been explained to them ( by the polititians) that it wasn't a practical or sensible project.

Jehuty42 · 03-02-2012 3:30pm

pigtown wrote: »

You cannot blame people for campaigning for something

I think this is the key difference in opinion. I think you can blame people for persistently campaigning for something that has been looked at and rejected by anyone with any cop on(thinking the consultants reports and the discussion from quarters such as this site), campaigning for a waste of taxpayers money.

The Department is to blame, sure, but they are at the whim of political interference driven by small-minded parochial concerns due to the lack of local government power, too many TDs, and good old fashioned tribalism. It's a problem with the entire system of governance in Ireland, sure, but WoT are complicit in the whole mess and are not innocent. They don't take the full blame, but they do take some of it.

dowlingm · 03-02-2012 3:47pm

pigtown, I just don't see where you get off saying "the Department is to blame" etc. when you admit you haven't looked into the history of the project. Why not educate yourself first and then make a call?

pigtown · 03-02-2012 5:39pm

dowlingm wrote: »

pigtown, I just don't see where you get off saying "the Department is to blame" etc. when you admit you haven't looked into the history of the project. Why not educate yourself first and then make a call?

To be honest dowlingm I don't care enough to look into the history of the saga. I based my opinion on the assumption that the only person who had the authority to give the go-ahead (or not in the case of DARTu etc.) was the minister. If I have assumed wrongly then I'm sorry.

corktina · 03-02-2012 9:09pm

theyve wasted a lump sum of over a 100 million of YOUR euros plus 3 million a year in losses and you don't care enough?:eek:

-Chris- · 03-02-2012 10:14pm

There's already enough discussion of the WRC without some condescending/conspiracytheory/insulting bullcrap thread trying to make its own point.

@everyone

Please continue any discussions in the relevant thread rather than starting new ones.

Please make your point without resorting to petty insults - it reflects far worse on you that it does on those you're talking about.

Thread closed

West-on-Track/Supporters Need Love and Understanding

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