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Normal estate agent behaviour?

  • 15-02-2012 7:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dub_dan


    Looking for some opinions on this, we feel as if we're going mad, it would be nice to get a view from someone neutral.

    We are first time buyers, have mortgage approval, have viewed quite a few houses.

    We made an offer on a house about 2 weeks ago, our offer was declined (estate agent rang us back within an hour or two) Now we were more or less expecting the offer to be declined but because of the way the market is we felt it was worth a shot!

    Now this is where we felt we were being fed typical estate agent bull****, we were told the current owners were separating and were in negative equity and couldn't accept any less than X, as their bank would not agree.

    So we made another offer, Monday, (X-15,000) , this took a while longer for the estate agent to get back to us,we had to call him on the, Wednesday, he said the vendor was away and uncontactable, he rang us on friday to tell us offer had been declined.

    However, after this offer, their "bottom price" changed to be X-5000.

    So now, we made our lastest offer last week which is X-10000. We were told we would hear back from our estate agent on monday. No call from him. Rang him tuesday and was told we would have an answer that evening, the following day we still had not heard so we rang him to be told that offer was again declined. We asked him when he had known this (basically asking why we have to ring him each time) and was told he was just off the phone with the sellers.

    We have told them that we're are not prepared to increase our offer as the price we have reached now is the upper end of what we are willing to pay for this property. The estate agent then asked us if we wanted to put the same offer in again and give the sellers some time to consider it (whilst telling us a story about how something similar happened a few weeks ago where another seller accepted the offer after some consideration)

    We have agreed to leave that offer stand for 48hours, after which we will walk away (but we would really rather not because we do like this property)

    Is this typical estate agent games or do you think the stories are believable?

    I mean we have offered only 5000 off their "bottom price" and were still declined on the first offer, which seems like a bad move by the seller if they really are separating and want rid of the house

    Thanks for taking the time to read this, all opinions welcome!!


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭PoleStar


    Be ruthless.

    My own personal example is from the boom time but the principal is the same. Same sort of craic when I was bidding on a property. Eventually a bid accepted (remember at this time, the offers were going up and up) and heading towards signing and deal fell through. Deposit was returned to me, given some crap reason as to why the vendor withdrew. Later re advertised at higher price of course.

    Anyway having had the run around with another few properties, I finally found another place I wanted. I rang the estate agent and told them my offer (which was bang on asking price, remember again this was 2004!) and gave an ultimatum of 3 days later. I said if my offer wasn't accepted at that time then my offer was withdrawn and I would not have any further interest. I got a call the next day, offer accepted and purchase successful.

    I think if you play hardball with the agents it sometimes works. I know others who would have similar experiences and say the same. No one is buying at the moment so the ball is in your court. Dont take any crAp from them. From the sounds of it, you are displaying too much generosity of spirit at the moment!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    Never bid against yourself.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Withdraw the offer in the morning and let them stew on it, there are plenty of houses out there so it's unlikely you'll miss out. To me the estate agent is doing his job (which is fair enough) but the ole just off the phone to the seller line is pure horse sh1t so play his own game on him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    dub_dan wrote: »
    Now this is where we felt we were being fed typical estate agent bull****, we were told the current owners were separating and were in negative equity and couldn't accept any less than X, as their bank would not agree.
    Are they still living there? Pop a letter in the door stating price minus €20,000 (wriggle room, and to see if they've actually gotten your other offer) with the offer valid until Friday week, with your contact details. Also send a registered letter, using a different type of envelope with different handwriting of the address (in case the EA gets all the letters) with the same details.

    And then see if they'll bite your arm off to get the money :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    Dont keep phoning the EA, the more eager he thinks you are the more he thinks he can bump up the price. Always put an offer in, give a time limit, if they dont contact you within that time, your offer drops by 5k.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Remember the estate agent is being employed by the sellers to get the best price he can for their house - he's not there to assist or help you.

    Nothing he's done has been strange or unusual I would say, and in fact he's doing it to see how interested you are i.e. how often you start ringing him if he doesn't ring you.

    So take the advice of the previous poster and don't bid against yourself - keep your last offer, if you are happy to pay that for the house - if that is rejected or you feel you are being messed about, drop it and go find somewhere else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Figure out what you're willing to pay

    Advise the EA, tell them the offer is live for 5 days if you don't hear from them move on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    It seems pretty straight forward to me, you

    a. Cant afford the house
    b. Don't want it enough to pay the min asked.

    Highly unlikely any agent is playing games with you over a few thousand, if he is he's an idiot. Buy another house .. not like there's a shortage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dub_dan


    PoleStar wrote: »
    Be ruthless.

    My own personal example is from the boom time but the principal is the same. Same sort of craic when I was bidding on a property. Eventually a bid accepted (remember at this time, the offers were going up and up) and heading towards signing and deal fell through. Deposit was returned to me, given some crap reason as to why the vendor withdrew. Later re advertised at higher price of course.

    Anyway having had the run around with another few properties, I finally found another place I wanted. I rang the estate agent and told them my offer (which was bang on asking price, remember again this was 2004!) and gave an ultimatum of 3 days later. I said if my offer wasn't accepted at that time then my offer was withdrawn and I would not have any further interest. I got a call the next day, offer accepted and purchase successful.

    I think if you play hardball with the agents it sometimes works. I know others who would have similar experiences and say the same. No one is buying at the moment so the ball is in your court. Dont take any crAp from them. From the sounds of it, you are displaying too much generosity of spirit at the moment!
    Bigcheeze wrote: »
    Never bid against yourself.

    RoverJames wrote: »
    Withdraw the offer in the morning and let them stew on it, there are plenty of houses out there so it's unlikely you'll miss out. To me the estate agent is doing his job (which is fair enough) but the ole just off the phone to the seller line is pure horse sh1t so play his own game on him.
    the_syco wrote: »
    Are they still living there? Pop a letter in the door stating price minus €20,000 (wriggle room, and to see if they've actually gotten your other offer) with the offer valid until Friday week, with your contact details. Also send a registered letter, using a different type of envelope with different handwriting of the address (in case the EA gets all the letters) with the same details.

    And then see if they'll bite your arm off to get the money :P
    Senna wrote: »
    Dont keep phoning the EA, the more eager he thinks you are the more he thinks he can bump up the price. Always put an offer in, give a time limit, if they dont contact you within that time, your offer drops by 5k.


    Thanks everyone for their opinions, we have set tomorrow as the deadline, if we hear nothing the offer is off the table, and we will look elsewhere. As is repeated in most of these threads, it's a buyers market and we're in no rush.
    pawnacide wrote: »
    It seems pretty straight forward to me, you

    a. Cant afford the house
    b. Don't want it enough to pay the min asked.

    Highly unlikely any agent is playing games with you over a few thousand, if he is he's an idiot. Buy another house .. not like there's a shortage.

    a. We can afford the house, it is 100k less than what we have approval for
    b. We do want this house, if we didnt we, would've been out a long time ago. We picked a figure before we started offering money and have reached that figure now. If we said "ah sure another 5000, no problem" We would feel like we were taken for a total ride.

    Why should we offer what we are told is their "bottom price", especially in today's market. We are offering based on what the house is worth to us, not on what they owe on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    Maybe I'm missing something but didn't the agent tell you your offer was refused ??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dub_dan


    Yes the offer was refused, but as I said already we were asked by the agent if we wanted to offer the same again and let them think about it (we were asked this as soon as the agent realized we were making no more offers)


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭wexford12


    The EA would be very silly to play games for 5k he only gets a tiny % out of it and for 5k it wouldnt be worth a loss of sale.
    Id say if the couple have split up and the bank wants their money they have a figure and need to stick to it, and if they have split up they may be a lot of hard feelings over selling the house and neither wants to pay the balance to the bank even if it is only 5k. Which in todays world is a lot of money
    Id say if you want the house and you think its worth the money buy it and dont loose it over 5k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    wexford12 wrote: »
    Id say if you want the house and you think its worth the money buy it and dont loose it over 5k

    Lose it to who? There's only been one bidder for the last 15 grand!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    pawnacide wrote: »

    Highly unlikely any agent is playing games with you over a few thousand, if he is he's an idiot. Buy another house .. not like there's a shortage.
    wexford12 wrote: »
    The EA would be very silly to play games for 5k he only gets a tiny % out of it and for 5k it wouldnt be worth a loss of sale.

    Might have nothing to do with the EA playing games, its the vendors who will be wanting the extra money;
    EA; This couple are very eager, they have offered €x
    Vendor; We'll if their eager and willing to pay €x, maybe they'll pay €x+5k.
    and so on....
    People are greedy and if the OP has raised the offer once, maybe they'll do it again. Only way to bid is offer a price, if its not accepted, move on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    pawnacide wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something but didn't the agent tell you your offer was refused ??
    If you look at the story from the EA's view, he has a couple who wants the house.
    dub_dan wrote: »
    We made an offer on a house about 2 weeks ago, our offer was declined

    So we made another offer, Monday, (X-15,000)
    They offer 15,000 less than X.
    dub_dan wrote: »
    However, after this offer, their "bottom price" changed to be X-5000.
    EA tells them it's X price minus 5,000
    dub_dan wrote: »
    So now, we made our lastest offer last week which is X-10000
    A week later they say X minus 10,000

    So now the EA is probably thinking "they're upping the price by 5,000 a week, wait another week or two, and they'll agree to the price I gave them", and the EA wins. Remember: this is how the game was probably played not so long ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    You get the house yet ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The house market is very slow. The EA could be reading this forum lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dub_dan


    Solair wrote: »
    The house market is very slow. The EA could be reading this forum lol

    We didn't buy that house, looking at another one at the moment. I hope the EA is reading this forum because at least that way he'd know we weren't going any higher than our last offer!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    You let it go for the sake of 5k and 100k under budget .. can't have been that nice .. best o luck with the next one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭soap1978


    dub_dan wrote: »
    We didn't buy that house, looking at another one at the moment. I hope the EA is reading this forum because at least that way he'd know we weren't going any higher than our last offer!
    u r right,u have loads of time and best of luck


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    pawnacide wrote: »
    You let it go for the sake of 5k and 100k under budget .. can't have been that nice .. best o luck with the next one.

    How much does that 5k work out over the lifetime of the mortgage ?

    It may be 100k under their budget and it may be 200k less than what it was worth 5 years ago.
    That matter squat diddly when you are still the ones paying out another 5k (plus all the interest) that you need not pay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭wexford12


    Well it must not of been that good if you fall in love with a house 5k won't let you loose it. I would bet anything the EA had nothing to do with not taking your offers
    It was the owners who had split up owed more than they were selling for and couldn't sit down together to iron out a deal
    No winners in this sale not you nor the sellers or estate agent


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    wexford12 wrote: »
    No winners in this sale not you nor the sellers or estate agent
    Without knowing the property I don't think anyone can assume that. The likely losers are the EA and vendor. The OP is still holding all their cards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    I'm guessing it was a fairly generic 3 or 4 bed probably a semi otherwise he wouldn't have let it go for 5k. I don't see the EA could have done anymore, as for price dropping by 10k after offer was made that's completely standard negotiating practice and doesn't in itself imply any dodging dealings by estate agents, owners, banks etc.

    As for holding all the cards, I don't get it, he's holding no cards in relation to this particular house.

    Stormin a tea cup .. buyer made an offer he was comfortable with, offer refused .. all very simple really.

    NEXT HOUSE PLEASE


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭wexford12


    Dades wrote: »
    Without knowing the property I don't think anyone can assume that. The likely losers are the EA and vendor. The OP is still holding all their cards.


    Its very simple vendors got no sale estate agent got no sale buyers didn't get the house they wanted " so no winners" everyone lost out


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    wexford12 wrote: »
    Its very simple vendors got no sale estate agent got no sale buyers didn't get the house they wanted " so no winners" everyone lost out

    But EA and seller are bigger losers than the OP.
    The OP gets to walk away and fight or rather bid another day.
    The seller is kinda stuck.

    I was worried the OP was continuing to up the bids and end up bidding against themsleves, but common sense prevailed and they were able to put any emotionally tie to the property to one side and walk away.

    Houses for sale are now like buses, well buses in certain areas like the Stillorgan dual carriage way.
    There will be another one along in a minute.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    wexford12 wrote: »
    Well it must not of been that good if you fall in love with a house 5k won't let you loose it.


    One should never 'fall in love' with a house you're bidding on.
    If you have a figure in that you won't be above - then don't bid above that figure - it's a business transaction.

    This 'falling in love' bs is one of the reasons you should never be allowed by your partner (if you have one) to have any involvement in purchasing a house.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    One should never 'fall in love' with a house you're bidding on.
    If you have a figure in that you won't be above - then don't bid above that figure - it's a business transaction.

    This 'falling in love' bs is one of the reasons you should never be allowed by your partner (if you have one) to have any involvement in purchasing a house.

    Spoken like someone who never bought a house they actually liked. I agree this could apply to a generic semi or detached in a development but if you're after something a little different and you find it most people will see the sense in going that little bit further. Buying a home is not a business transaction .. buying a house is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    pawnacide wrote: »
    Spoken like someone who never bought a house they actually liked. I agree this could apply to a generic semi or detached in a development but if you're after something a little different and you find it most people will see the sense in going that little bit further. Buying a home is not a business transaction .. buying a house is.

    why bother getting involved in negotiations at all then?

    Put your max offer in and you get what you want or you move on.

    The point is to firstly never allow the EA to see if you're emotionally attached to the house.

    Secondly don't let the emotional "one" of the couple do the bidding, there's always one.

    Thirdly regardless of how emotionally attached to it you become no house is worth ruining the rest of your life for.

    There's always another house you'll discover and by the time your a of an age or maturity of buying a house this emotional nonsense shouldn't be so extreme anyway


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭pawnacide


    ntlbell wrote: »
    why bother getting involved in negotiations at all then?

    Put your max offer in and you get what you want or you move on.

    The point is to firstly never allow the EA to see if you're emotionally attached to the house.

    Secondly don't let the emotional "one" of the couple do the bidding, there's always one.

    Thirdly regardless of how emotionally attached to it you become no house is worth ruining the rest of your life for.

    There's always another house you'll discover and by the time your a of an age or maturity of buying a house this emotional nonsense shouldn't be so extreme anyway

    what emotional nonsense are u talking about, if u like a house, you like a house .. hardly an over emotional response. If you were to apply that kinda logic to everything you did I think life would be pretty hum drum. 5k is 5k .. 10 weeks wages at average industrial wage .. hardly life changing.


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