M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Tech3 · 20-04-2009 4:57pm

tech2 wrote: »

Will the tuam bypass still be constructed with 4 roundabouts on the mainline.?

Im after finding the correct information on this a bypass to the west incorporating roundabouts at the south and north of tuam.

Sponge Bob · 20-04-2009 6:47pm

gort ennis cost €9.7m per km

is that a 2+1 Tuam Bypass tech2 ??

Chris_533976 · 20-04-2009 8:09pm

Tuam bypass was ok-ed by An Bord Pleanala as a S2 scheme. They're trying to get it appended as a dualler (presumably 2+2 w/roundabouts); according to the NRA this should go through by the end of May.

Tech3 · 21-04-2009 1:58am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

gort ennis cost €9.7m per km

is that a 2+1 Tuam Bypass tech2 ??

The NRA have scrapped 2+1's. On the second programme of PPP's announced by the NRA it stated that the tuam bypass will be built 2+2 with 2 roundabout junctions north and south. With the calculations of the ennis bypass the scheme would be 552 million for the 57 kms. I cant really imagine it being much off this maybe as far as 600 million- under a billion mainly due to the cost of materials and labour being relatively cheaper than a few years ago.

There is a map of the entire N17/N18/tuam bypass scheme here on page 2:
Second PPP Roads Programme

Amtmann · 07-05-2009 3:30pm

Just out of curiosity, how would people feel about giving the entire Atlantic Corridor, or at least the bit between Tuam and Cork, a single (new) route number?

KevR · 07-05-2009 3:45pm

I'd be very much in favour of it.

It doesn't make much sense to me having different numbers.

It's particularly annoying that the M17/18 (Gort-Tuam) will be numbered seperately. Why does the route number have to change when it crosses the M6 at Rathmorrissey? The existing N17 + 18 are a different case entirely and need seperate numbers, the new motorway will not.

Stupido · 07-05-2009 4:02pm

I agree!

Call the one road the M20. Makes sense.

Also if the Leinster orbital is ever built, it shoul be an extension of the M9 IMO:)

Tech3 · 07-05-2009 4:36pm

KevR wrote: »

It's particularly annoying that the M17/18 (Gort-Tuam) will be numbered seperately. Why does the route number have to change when it crosses the M6 at Rathmorrissey? The existing N17 + 18 are a different case entirely and need seperate numbers, the new motorway will not.

I agree its annoying the scheme is called the N17/18 gort to tuam, it should be one route number preferably the N18.

If it was to be one route from Tuam to Cork, phase 2 of the N7 will have to be renumbered also but I think the N20 is ok as it is. I hope the current N17 from Tuam to Galway is not redesignated a regional road as the traffic numbers will be still high even when the new motorway is constructed.

KevR · 07-05-2009 5:14pm

tech2 wrote: »

I hope the current N17 from Tuam to Galway is not redesignated a regional road as the traffic numbers will be still high even when the new motorway is constructed.

Agree. The M17/18 scheme should be entirely numbered M18. They can redesignate the old N18 and reduce the speed limit. But they shouldn't redesignate the current N17 or reduce the speed limit.

BluntGuy · 07-05-2009 6:41pm

Hmmm... between Tuam and Cork one number? If they're going to do that, they may as well go the whole way and call the entire thing up until the north the N20/M20.

I think the M18 should extend to Tuam, but I'm happy with the M20 as it is (between Cork-Limerick). It's quite clear and simple. I do think that they could redesignate the Limerick Tunnel from the M20 junction as N18 (or hopefully M18) one day - just so the journey from Cork-Galway doesn't have a piece of N7 in it.

Sponge Bob · 07-05-2009 10:03pm

Furet wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how would people feel about giving the entire Atlantic Corridor, or at least the bit between Tuam and Cork, a single (new) route number?

Dont be a div , Galway is absolutely entitled to its 3 motorways and does not want to share road numbers with Cork

Chris_533976 · 07-05-2009 10:31pm

Call it the DOOOR

KevR · 08-05-2009 10:12am

BluntGuy wrote: »

Hmmm... between Tuam and Cork one number? If they're going to do that, they may as well go the whole way and call the entire thing up until the north the N20/M20.

I think the M18 should extend to Tuam, but I'm happy with the M20 as it is (between Cork-Limerick). It's quite clear and simple. I do think that they could redesignate the Limerick Tunnel from the M20 junction as N18 (or hopefully M18) one day - just so the journey from Cork-Galway doesn't have a piece of N7 in it.

I'd be happy also with just M/N18 and M20.

As it will stand, we'll have the M17, M/N18, N7, and M20 between Tuam and Cork. Would make a lot more sense to re-number the M17 and N7.

Carawaystick · 08-05-2009 1:32pm

KevR wrote: »

I'd be happy also with just M/N18 and M20.

As it will stand, we'll have the M17, M/N18, N7, and M20 between Tuam and Cork. Would make a lot more sense to re-number the M17 and N7.

Tuam's hardly a main destination for people leaving Cork though...
And the N17 goes on to Colooney just outside Sligo. Renumbering the route would break the numbering scheme for primary routes also.

I don't see why changing route numbers would be an issue. If you were to go down the west of France, from Rennes to Bordeaux via Nantes, you'd go on the N137, A/N844, A83 and A10. But Nantes would be clearly signed from Rennes and Bordeaux would be clearly signed from North of Nantes.
Here, Limerick would be signed on the M17 and I'd imagine Cork would be signed from the Clare side of Limerick.
If the destinations (final or intermediate) are clearly signed, then it doesn't make much difference - unless you're british and road number is the be al and end all.

KevR · 08-05-2009 2:31pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Tuam's hardly a main destination for people leaving Cork though...
And the N17 goes on to Colooney just outside Sligo. Renumbering the route would break the numbering scheme for primary routes also.

I don't see why changing route numbers would be an issue. If you were to go down the west of France, from Rennes to Bordeaux via Nantes, you'd go on the N137, A/N844, A83 and A10. But Nantes would be clearly signed from Rennes and Bordeaux would be clearly signed from North of Nantes.
Here, Limerick would be signed on the M17 and I'd imagine Cork would be signed from the Clare side of Limerick.
If the destinations (final or intermediate) are clearly signed, then it doesn't make much difference - unless you're british and road number is the be al and end all.

I know Tuam isn't the main destination for people leaving Cork.

Just say if it was a single route number (e.g - M20) from Cork to Tuam; I would have signage along these sort of lines:

Leaving Cork:
Limerick
Intermediate towns

After Limerick:
Galway
Gort
Ennis
Shannon (N19)

After Galway (M6 Rathmorrisey crossover):
Sligo (N17)
Intermediate towns
Tuam

Changing route numbers isn't a massive issue because, as you said, the destination will be signed but I think it would make sense to simplify things and only use 1 or 2 route numbers on the Atlantic Corridor.

I think it makes sense to have the M17 as M18. If you're on the M18 and going to Sligo you will join the N17 (Galway to Sligo road) at Tuam. [I wouldn't renumber the existing N17 between Tuam and Sligo unless a new motorway was ever built]. The N17 from Tuam to Galway could stay as the N17 and not be redesignated as some R road.

I wonder if the Saw Doctors will release a remake of their N17 song called M17 or R649?

Carawaystick · 09-05-2009 12:19am

KevR wrote: »

I think it makes sense to have the M17 as M18. If you're on the M18 and going to Sligo you will join the N17 (Galway to Sligo road) at Tuam. [I wouldn't renumber the existing N17 between Tuam and Sligo unless a new motorway was ever built]. The N17 from Tuam to Galway could stay as the N17 and not be redesignated as some R road.

I don't think here you can have a N and M road at the same time. All the Motorways are actually N routes in Law. - The N1 Route is the N1 from Dublin to the M1 and M1 on to Ballymascanlon and then N1 again til the Armagh border.

Again I'd say Route number consistancy is onlhy important if you folllow the briish scheme of things. France and a lot of the rest of Europe use a destination system like here- I think it's more important to know where you're going and where you'll be going past to get there...
I'm used to the French/continental system and always found the british system odd.

I think the <intermediate signage> we use here is not up to scratch. On the M6 for example, at the M6/N52 junction at Kilbeggan for Tullamore, there is no signage for Mullinagar or the N52 north to continue along the mainline ( heading east). Same story going west at Tyrrellspass. In France all junctions would have an overhead gantry showing about 3 destination on the mainline and whatever destinations on the exit route.
like this - remembering they drive on the right.
http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/TEP1852.jpg

This is the French official signage for direction signs:
http://www1.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/signaux/famille.asp?sFamille=12&sSFamille=0

Tech3 · 09-05-2009 8:40am

I dont really mind what route numbers are given but I DO think that the current N17 shouldnt be downgraded to a regional road. It will still carry high amounts of traffic daily.

Chris_533976 · 09-05-2009 10:31am

All of it will be still stuck in Claregalway anyway so a drop in speed limit to 80 wont make a difference.

Tech3 · 09-05-2009 1:22pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

All of it will be still stuck in Claregalway anyway so a drop in speed limit to 80 wont make a difference.

There should be no through traffic from the current N18 when its built and take away the traffic lights. That will reduce the congestion but not much

Chris_533976 · 09-05-2009 2:25pm

Theres hardly any through traffic as it is, most of it is commuters working in Galway.

Tech3 · 09-05-2009 5:18pm

I cant see it getting a bypass for long time now the way our countries finances are going. Are commuters from Galway really going to drive to Athenry and up to Tuma every day? I cant see it. The NRA made a pure mess of the route for the N17/N18 PPP in the first place. I bet the future road wont even see 15,000 vehicles a day.

Chris_533976 · 09-05-2009 5:56pm

Limerick to Rathmorissey will be busy enough, but Rathmorrisey to start of Tuam bypass will be pretty dead.

Tuam bypass part of it will be used tho.

Tech3 · 09-05-2009 6:16pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Rathmorrisey to start of Tuam bypass will be pretty dead.

Yep sorry meant to say the M17 section. I will be one of the very few to use it!! I can also see many drivers pulling off at that grade seperated junction for the old n18 if they are driving to Galway City instead of heading to rathmorissey and taking the M6.

Cian R · 10-05-2009 9:52pm

The N17 would be redesignated as the N63 I think because thats what usually happens. The N63 doesnt go all the way to Tuam but it branches off after Claregalway

Zoney · 10-05-2009 10:16pm

tech2 wrote: »

I dont really mind what route numbers are given but I DO think that the current N17 shouldnt be downgraded to a regional road. It will still carry high amounts of traffic daily.

Why would that preclude it becoming a regional road? Regional roads are a very important part of our route network, and many of them are very heavily used, especially around cities or indeed in cities (often forming arterial routes).

The road certainly wouldn't merit being a "national route" in a literal sense after bypass.

Now I do however make the point that our regional roads (and indeed national secondary roads) should all be kept to a minimum regular standard across the state. A road being bypassed and made an R road should not be an indicator that it will never be touched again - especially in the cases where a lot of local traffic uses them (as indeed R roads are for - local traffic).

Tech3 · 10-05-2009 10:24pm

Zoney wrote: »

Why would that preclude it becoming a regional road? Regional roads are a very important part of our route network, and many of them are very heavily used, especially around cities or indeed in cities (often forming arterial routes).

The road certainly wouldn't merit being a "national route" in a literal sense after bypass.

Now I do however make the point that our regional roads (and indeed national secondary roads) should all be kept to a minimum regular standard across the state. A road being bypassed and made an R road should not be an indicator that it will never be touched again - especially in the cases where a lot of local traffic uses them (as indeed R roads are for - local traffic).

Dont think Ive ever disagreed with you Zoney but I have to on this one. A regional may carry alot of excessive traffic around a city but its different for a long distance commute. The new road wont be used heavily by Galway-Tuam commuters. I'll be satisfied if its only downgraded to a secondary road but any futher wouldnt be a good idea.

Whats being bypassed? Claregalway is certainly not being bypassed.

KevR · 11-05-2009 9:43am

tech2 wrote: »

Are commuters from Galway really going to drive to Athenry and up to Tuma every day? I cant see it.

For some people, depending on where they're working in Galway, driving to Tuam via Rathmorrissey will be a pretty good option on the way home in the evenings because there will be a left turn slip onto the M6 from the existing N6 DC.

Will be an aweful option for those people in the mornings because they'll have to queue for the RAB at Doughiska with all commuter traffic and long distance traffic from the M6 and M18.

The lack of a Galway Bypass and the at-grade junction at Doughiska will have a negative impact on on M17 traffic levels, therefore the N17 and Claregalway will still continue to be badly congested.

Tech3 · 11-05-2009 9:53pm

KevR wrote: »

For some people, depending on where they're working in Galway, driving to Tuam via Rathmorrissey will be a pretty good option on the way home in the evenings because there will be a left turn slip onto the M6 from the existing N6 DC.

Will be an aweful option for those people in the mornings because they'll have to queue for the RAB at Doughiska with all commuter traffic and long distance traffic from the M6 and M18.

The lack of a Galway Bypass and the at-grade junction at Doughiska will have a negative impact on on M17 traffic levels, therefore the N17 and Claregalway will still continue to be badly congested.

I think having to travel and extra 20km to get to Tuam from Galway will have an effect on the amount of commuters using the M17.

But working it out it would be roughly

- 50 km via the M17 at 120km/hr = 25min
- 30 km current N17 at 100km/hr = 18min

Okay but that will never be acurate at peak times. Claregalway will add another 10-20 mins so maybe the M17 will be used heavily during peak hours.

KevR · 12-05-2009 9:37am

Also, on the N17 you would be very lucky to average 100kmh off-peak, never mind at peak times. You nearly always get caught behind a truck, tractor, bus or slow car for some stretch or another. I find my average speed is often closer to 80kmh than 100kmh.

I think, depending on where you're starting your journey in Galway, the M17 will be a very good option for getting to Tuam. But it won't be a great option for Tuam to Galway traffic, particularly during morning peak, because the roundabout at Doughiska.

rekrow · 13-05-2009 11:56am

tech2 wrote: »

I think having to travel and extra 20km to get to Tuam from Galway will have an effect on the amount of commuters using the M17.

But working it out it would be roughly

- 50 km via the M17 at 120km/hr = 25min
- 30 km current N17 at 100km/hr = 18min

Okay but that will never be acurate at peak times. Claregalway will add another 10-20 mins so maybe the M17 will be used heavily during peak hours.

Galway county council are doing their bit to make the M17 route more viable. The new bus corridor has reduced about 5 km of the N17 route to 50kmph. I do the Claregalway/Galway run everyday and have a few comments probably a bit off topic for Ennis to Galway thread, but valid I think in the Atlantic corridor context. 1: According to the NRA traffic counters 33% of the traffic going through claregalway doesn't reach the traffic counter 7kms North of Claregalway.So will the M17 even be a viable route for that traffic. 2: The 10-20 min delays in Claregalway arent as common as they used to be. Not sure if this is due to the traffic lights or the recession taking users off the road. One thing for sure. It is not due to the excessive use of the white elephant bus lanes. The 5 or so buses that pass me every evening can hardly be making an impact in the rush hour traffic. To be honest I think the Rathmorrisey route for the M17 is a bit of a red herring now.

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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