Shot Put Weights Session

Trevor O Connell · 12-07-2012 6:02pm #1

What are some good weight lifting sessions for in-season / competition phase shot put?

How often per week, and how many sets/reps

Trevor

cambridge · 14-07-2012 3:10pm

research didier poppe

Bruce7 · 14-07-2012 11:25pm

I'd say you'd be better off focusing on throwing only during the competition season. You'll gain more distance from improved tech than any strength you might gain at this stage. And compete in as many meets as possible.

Do something dynamic if you feel you have to go to the gym. Oly lifts once a week or something.

Trevor O Connell · 17-07-2012 11:56am

The kind of weights I do are mainly

Power Snatch
Power clean
Deadlift
Front/Back Squat
Bench Press
Lat Pull Down
Lunges

Typically I'd do a lift / plyo combo

For example, Power Snatch + step ups

Front Squat + Vertical Jump

Bench Press + chest Pass (with med ball)

Lat Pull Down + Overhead Throw (with med ball)

In terms of the shot put I was wondering how far should you go down on the squats

Is there a benefit to doing a full squat as low as you can go to the floor

Or is a half squat better with a more explosive drive upwards

Trevor

Bruce7 · 17-07-2012 2:04pm

Go all the way down in your squats.

Do push presses if you want to do something involving an explosive drive upwards.

cambridge · 17-07-2012 5:22pm

just as a matter of interest, how old are you, how long you been throwing, have you won any regional/national/school/college titles?

Trevor O Connell · 17-07-2012 5:45pm

I'm an old master,

To be honest this is just a bit of fun, a hobby more then anything else

Not very good at it but at the same time I'd like to do it right. Well to the best of my ability.

I do a lot of gym work normally so I decided I may as well learn something new.

I'd say the closest I will ever come to winning anything will be a PB, but that will do me.

Trevor

Bruce7 · 17-07-2012 6:08pm

If you're taking up the shot from scratch, you'll make dramatic gains quickly by working on your technique.

If you've never thrown before, you're throwing around 7 or 8 metres, I guess.

If you're competing in the masters on 18 August, you could probably get up to the 9-10 level through regular throwing.

Put it this way:

Can you get 30 - 50% stronger in a month? No.
Can your technique improve by 30 - 50% in a month? If you're a complete beginner, then yes, easily.

Apologies if my assumptions are wrong, but the point is the same whatever distance you're throwing.

cambridge · 17-07-2012 6:34pm

are you getting any coaching?

Trevor O Connell · 17-07-2012 11:03pm

Yep, good old masters, and no never did it before.

Just picked a shot up last April.

Don't have any technique yet, throwing 8.51m from a standing throw 7.26kg but even that has poor technique.

But I'm working on it. Just getting used to the glide and in particular driving off my right foot

Keeping the hand in front close to the ground

Also trying to move across the circle low etc

I think my biggest problem right now is basic speed in the legs so I need more jumps / bounding / plyo to help sort that out

Then I need more practice throws

I've no coach, just picking it up as I got. Lots of bad habits I suppose

Not sure how far I will throw in nationals. hard to say really.

I'm throwing well over 9m at home but I'm making a mess of things in competition for some reason. Not nerves. I think that's just more practice and more comps.

Might be loosing too much weight also, I was a 400m a while back.

And for some reason with training I've lost the most of a stone in the last 3 to 4 months

But I can lift just as much so you'd think my power conversion should have improved

I was talking to a girl in donegal tonight that did the shot

And she reckons I should ease off on my training, do less weights, focus on 3 to 4 core Olympic lifts with plyo

Do jumps and plenty of throws between now and nationals

Trevor

Trevor O Connell · 17-07-2012 11:05pm

In terms of style, it is my personal opinion that the rotational technique is much better but no way I'm going to get that as my age.

Trevor

Trevor O Connell · 17-07-2012 11:18pm

Oh yeah only started doing core work about 10 days ago. I've neglected my core all winter which I know was stupid.

But I do pretty good routine now, 8 different exercises we split it in 4

so

2 sets of 4 exercises
4 min break
2 sets of 4 exercises

examples are v-ups, russian twists, side twists,abdominal roll ups, variations of the plank,barbell rollout etc

Trevor

Bruce7 · 18-07-2012 10:01am

That is good going. I agree with your friend - keep the gym work to a minimum and throw as much as possible. You get better at throwing by throwing, and you get better at competing by competing. So you should train for competition at least once a week, by simulating a meet. I.e.

Set yourself a time for your first throw - e.g. 7PM
Figure out how long it takes you to stretch / warm up and take 3 or 4 practice throws - e.g. 25 - 30 mins
Subtract this from your start time, so you start your warm up at 6.30 or so. Don't pick up a shot until 6.50 at the earliest, then take a practice throw every minute or two.
At 7 on the dot, take your first throw and mark it.

Then spend 8-10 minutes staying warm - do drills / dry throws / stretches - before throwing again and marking your distance.

Repeat until you have taken 4 throws (as you only get 4 in the Masters). Be strict with yourself about time and don't mark any fouls. Measure your best throw, and then you're done.

On a technical point, it's not necessarily speed out of the back of the ring you're looking for, it's acceleration throughout the glide. There's no point in using leg drive to come out of the back of the ring at 100mph. For one thing, you'll probably shoot your bolt as regards leg drive and have none left for the throw; for another, if your entire body mass is hurtling backwards when you land on your right foot in the centre of the circle, all your weight is going to keep travelling towards the toeboard until your left foot lands. As a result, most of your weight will already be over the left leg when you go to throw and your right leg won't be in a position to provide any drive, and you'll end up throwing with the arm. (Imagine jumping over a ditch and landing on one foot. Where is your momentum going to take you?)

Instead, try to fall backwards by lowering your hips (unseating) from the back towards the centre of the circle then fully extending both legs. If you fully extend your right leg it will naturally snap back under you as you cross the ring and then you will land in the right position to accelerate the ball by applying leg drive first, and then hitting with the arm.

Trevor O Connell · 18-07-2012 10:18am

God thanks Bruce for that detailed advice. Much appreciated.

I got hurdles yesterday for bounding and jumps etc. Just to improve flexibility

You know I think I know what I need to do in my head in terms of movement for the glide, its just getting it right.

I know I should keep low, and drive left leg back, I will come back on my right heel and then as my left leg touches the board my right leg will snap back under my body and put me in the power position, ideally at the same time I need to keep my upper bodyas far to the right as possible with a high elbow. That way I can get maximum torgue

I must admit for all my weights in the gym I find it extremely hard to keep my elbow high. Don't know why

Trevor

JJayoo · 18-07-2012 4:09pm

One of Joe Defrancos guys does shot put, think his name is Pat cole. There might be some good info about him and his training on the Defranco site

kevpants · 18-07-2012 10:33pm

Just throw man. I considered giving shot put a go but just don't have the time since I'm not willing to cut back on the powerlifting.

I'd be gym-strong but couldn't throw for sh1t. Mis-directed power all over the place. It was so frustrating feeling like I just wasn't able to transfer anything into the shot.

It's an awesome sport. Would love to be able to commit to it but I had to make a choice.

I had the elbow up issue as well.

Trevor O Connell · 18-07-2012 10:45pm

I just like it, but like yourself I'm fond of the weights

So at a cross roads, continue weight lifting and build up more

Or else do enough of weights sufficient to help me throw better and maybe sprint better over 60m / 100m

I love going to the track and field meetings and I'd like to coach myself at some stage

Now, I don't want to continue with the shot unless I can get over the 10m barrier on a regular basis. No offence to anyone but throwing 8m or 9m for a guy like myself that can do a pretty decent bench is really not acceptable in my books.

So I need to focus more on technique for the next month

I want to try a few other throwing events next year if I can improve my shot

Mainly javelin (always liked this event) and discus

I will never be an expert but if I can get the basics of each I'd be delighted

Oh yeah tried the 56ibs, not really a fan

Trevor

cambridge · 19-07-2012 12:02am

i really don't think you need advice from guys whose expertise is weight training you need advice from people whose expertise is shot putt.

not many ppl coaching the shot around ireland or cork or where ever you are from but have a look

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 12:45am

To be honest I've found the advice from bruce very good

As I mentioned this is just a hobby so even the basic suggestions that people have are all very helpful.

Trevor

cambridge · 19-07-2012 12:47am

did you ever look up the didier poppe youtube vids?

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 1:00am

cambridge wrote: »

did you ever look up the didier poppe youtube vids?

Yeah very good

Also this link for drills
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PER52irKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PER52irKI

And also primal athletic

Bruce7 · 19-07-2012 9:50am

At this stage in the year, you need to focus, and should keep it as simple as possible. If you're looking up drills and coaching on youtube, you should be targeting specific areas of your tech that you know need the most work, or you will just get pulled in a load of different directions. After competition season you can start from the ground up, but right now, you should hang on to whatever works for you, and isolate one or two major flaws in your technique and work on those exclusively through a small number of targeted drills. If you can, film yourself.

Your elbow issue is probably caused by two factors: (i) placement of the shot on the neck. Experiment with different positions until you find one that works best for you. I suspect closer to your Adam's apple than your ear would work best for you. (ii) your shoulders are ahead of your hips. This is a major issue that you won't solve overnight, but the main thing I would advise is patience. Let the throw come, and don't rush it. Things have to happen in sequence. Only drive with the right leg once it is in position, under your body in the centre of the circle. Only hit with the arm once the hips are ahead of the shoulders.

Think of it more like a golf swing. Timing and rhythm, not brute force.

For coaching, keep an eye on the Athletics Ireland website. I think there are sessions on in Ennis from time to time, but I don't know what other coaching is available in Munster. Talk to Patsy O'Connor at the Masters in August, he may be able to direct you to someone. Or mail Dave Sweeney. His details will be on the website somewhere. There aren't too many coaches around, unfortunately.

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 10:08am

Met Patsy, funny man.

my weakest part is moving across the circle getting in to a power position.

To be honest I will do the nationals but its only to pass the time on a sunday

Its next year I'm thinking about so while I'm doing basic stuff now i.e. drills etc. I'm happy to keep working on getting the technique right

I've been doing the A letter drill, getting my foot in to the 9pm position

I need to practice at this as it seems awkward and slow.

And Patsy mentioned this

He said my standing throw was ok, but my movement accross the circle was too pause, stop and go if you know what I mean

To be fair I don't watch a lot of stuff on youtube, I take 1 to 2 that I think are useful, same with weights or anything

I tend to set a program for a month, stick to it regardless how things are going and then reassess at end of month

I will take your advice and lets see if I can make progress in the next month

I'd actually be happy with a 9m throw this year where I use the proper technique

I can work from that basis for next year.

Will keep you posted and thanks a million for the tips

Trevor

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 10:10am

oh yeah, another thing I'm going to do, and I know it sounds a bit stupid

But I'm going to get someone to video me

Its odd but I think if I can see myself throwing that I might be able to spot things and it might register in my head better.

Trevor

Bruce7 · 19-07-2012 10:23am

Trevor O Connell wrote: »

oh yeah, another thing I'm going to do, and I know it sounds a bit stupid

But I'm going to get someone to video me

Its odd but I think if I can see myself throwing that I might be able to spot things and it might register in my head better.

Trevor

Nothing stupid about that. Filming yourself is the best thing you can do. A regular digital camera and a tripod (20-30 euros) are all you need.

Good luck.

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 12:52pm

One question Bruce before I go

Before a comp in the shot should you deload on the weights

So for example 5 x 3 x 160kg deadlift, drop that back to something like 5 x 3 x 120kg

Treov
r

Bruce7 · 19-07-2012 1:49pm

Trevor O Connell wrote: »

One question Bruce before I go

Before a comp in the shot should you deload on the weights

So for example 5 x 3 x 160kg deadlift, drop that back to something like 5 x 3 x 120kg

Treov
r

There are three phases in the year, more or less.

Sep - Dec: Off season
Jan - Apr: Indoor Season
Apr - Aug: Outdoor season, peaking in Jul / Aug

You will want to be doing a certain amount of gym work and a certain amount of throwing / drills throughout the year, but the ratio will change. During the off season is your time to really increase your overall strength, athleticism, etc. You shouldn't neglect throwing completely, but it can take a back seat. So maybe during this phase the ratio is 80:20 or 90:10 gym:throwing. (If it was me, I'd try not to go below 75:25)

The other end of the spectrum is peak competition season, when you'll want to have the exact opposite ratio. Over 90% throwing / less than 10% gym. How you get from one to the other is up to you, but you should make gradual adjustments from about January onwards so that you are doing more and more throwing and less and less gym work.

At this stage of the year, you shouldn't be looking to get stronger, you should be looking to do the absolute minimum required to maintain your strength. Other people on here can advise you on the best way to achieve this better than me, but I would say keep the intensity high and the volume low.

In other words, something like 1 set of 3 @ 160 / 170. And no heavy lifts for a few days before your competition.

Trevor O Connell · 19-07-2012 6:03pm

Hi Bruce

yep that's what I'm doing, down to two days a week for the next month in gym

Sure I will try this out, won't I know for next year

2 days, lifting heavy but low reps, long recovery

So maybe

3-4 sets x 3 reps 90% - 95%

Also I'm just focusing on lifts such as

1. Deadlift
2. Power Clean
3. Front Squat
4. Back Squat
5. Power Snatch
6. Lat Pull Down
7. Shoulder Press
8. Reverse Lunges

I mix these up over two days, I don't do them all each day.

Then between them for example after each deadlift I'd jump 3 hurdles at 30 inches

After front squat I'd do 3 vertical jumps

After bench I'd do 3 to 5 chest pass med ball against wall, might change this to a plyo push up

After lat pull down I'd do 3 to 5 overhead med ball against wall

Its a pity I did not take so much time to study my 400m training when I was younger I might have made a better athlete.

Trevor

Bruce7 · 19-07-2012 6:44pm

Sounds like a plan. Good luck!

Trevor O Connell · 01-08-2012 11:47am

I came across a useful calculator on the web that would estimate throwing distances e.g.

if you throw a 600g javelin, it would project what you might throw a 800g

Same for shot, discus, hammer etc

And for the life of me I can't find it now

I was going to post it here, I should have

Trevor

JJayoo · 01-08-2012 6:18pm

The key is to push yourself backwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-B41I-quGo

Shot Put Weights Session

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