Project CARS

I bought Project Cars and rFactor2 (both in dev.) at around the same time. I played Project Cars about 1 hour the rest of the time I was on rFactor2.

Yes Project Cars looks great. But that's not the most important for racing sim fans. The driving experience was p!ss poor compared with rFactor2! That's why I never play it...

I have AC, RF2, PCars have to say they are all pretty good in their own ways.
Love the feedback from AC and the car sounds are just superb, RF2 real-road is brilliant for rubbering in a track over a couple of hours, the feeling of grip coming in lap by lap is lovely.
Pcars has some amazing cars and track combo's plus the graphics are absolutely stunning to say the least, cherryghost is right it has come on leaps and bounds over the last couple of months with feedback and car physics. At certain times of the day on long tracks I find myself stopping on practice laps just to go into free cam and have a look at the scenery and the way the low lying sun light bounces of the bodywork!

They are getting physics feedback from Ben Collins (old Stig) and Nicholas Hamilton (Lewis Hamiltons brother) and all of it is up on the forums to discuss and offer feedback on. Here is a copy and paste just so you can see the kind of thing they are talking about.

This is from Nic Hamilton on the latest tyre model.

"Hey guys,

I hope everyone is well,

Ok so this post is going to be based on Build 712 and will cover the R14 tyre and all of the variants available. My plan is to use R14-0 as the base tyre and then compare each variant to that tyre and then come up with a tyre with characteristics of each variant rolled into one.

Circuit: Besos GP

R14-0

Cold Tyre Phase

From cold, this tyre feels pretty decent. There is a lot of understeer, but with a low level of front entry bite, which is an improvement compared to previous, as now the front tyres do not feel like complete ice to start with. The level of instability on the rear I feel is good when the middle part of the rear tyre is used, as there is snap when too much throttle is applied too soon.

My cause for concern is the feeling you get when the rear tyres are under load laterally, as at the moment, initial turn-in is lazy and understeery, which is good, but there is an unrealistic rotation on the rear which happens when the outside of the rear tyre is used, regardless of the speed carried on entry or through the corner. The easiest way to explain this in writing is if I break it down into phases.

• You turn into turn 1 out of the pit-lane, the front understeer’s with rear movement on power

• You turn into turn 3, which is the long right-hander, the front understeer’s initially as the speed carried is not enough to where the rears are under high load, but as you get to the middle part of the corner carrying the same amount of speed, the rear rotates, which then puts the outside of the rear tyre under load and snaps.

This to me is very unrealistic, as rear snap/instability when cold is caused by putting the rear under too much load immediately to where the tyres are not at a hot enough temperature to handle the amount of speed/load carried or applied. Whereas at the moment, the rear rotates and snaps at the wrong type of cornering speeds/loads and feels like it is more ‘programmed to happen’ rather than happen naturally.

• I really struggled to get any decent temperature into the tyres. To me it seems that the heating parameters need to be more sensitive, so that the tyre increases in temperature more with the different types of load being put through them. This already happens to some extent, but the rear tyres do not seem to increase in temperature at all when throttle has been applied, as it seems that the temperature increases, but then drops instantly to the previous temperature. This feels the same as the GT3 tyres, where they only seem to increase in temperature with lateral load and not through power, which needs to be improved.

• Braking when on cold tyres I feel is still ‘too good’, with the window between the initial hit of the brake pedal to when the tyres lock needing to be shorter for the first couple of corners.

• I would give the front more understeer than it has at the moment, as even though I said earlier that there is a good amount of ‘low initial entry bite’, I still feel there needs to be just a ‘tiny’ bit less when the tyres are stone cold, to where it improves in bite/grip level to where it currently is after the first corner or so.

• Just like with the GT3 tyres, I feel that the front tyres are too aggressive with minimal input, as when weaving gently on the straight, the front-end is too pointy to the point where it throws the rear around a great deal. The easiest way to explain the feeling is like the front tyres are on rails and the rear tyres are not, so that every slight turn of the wheel when weaving, instantly points the car in that direction, but too quickly, almost like the steering sensitivity is too high.

Optimum Temperature

At optimum, the car feels pretty solid, there is good initial entry bite, with a little bit of understeer mid-corner that can be dialled out/improved in setup changes.

• Through slow speed I feel there is a tiny bit too much understeer, where I think the car needs to be more aggressive/ ‘pointy’ both on entry and in the middle of the corner, as the front tyres seem to struggle/scrub and understeer a little too much.

• Braking is very good with a lot of grip, allowing you to brake late and all the way into the apex of the corner if needed. I ‘picky point’ I would like to make is to maybe add some independent locking on the unloaded front tyre on entry to some corners, to make the shift in weight change the balance of the car more realistically.

• The main ‘sticky’ characteristic with this tyre, is the lack of rear stability and rotation. As I spoke about previously with the unrealistic rotation when the outside of the rear tyre is used, the issue carries over to when the tyre is at optimum. That being said, the rear tyre is a little more stabile, but from my point of view, the rear is too edgy and ‘floaty’, as it constantly feels like you are controlling the rear movement through a corner and hoping that through high-speed corners it hangs on. There is just too much oversteer and instability when under lateral load, which takes away confidence and feels like the car is trying to kill you. I would add some more rear stability on the outside of the tyre, as to me, this is a tyre issue and not a setup issue.

All in all, this tyre has its ‘up’s and downs’ with most of the issues being caused by the lack of rear stability both when cold and when at optimum. I think the cold phase needs to be a little more realistic with the rear not rotating as soon as the outside part of the tyre is used regardless of the speed being carried on entry or through the corner, but to also have realistic temperature increases based on different loads being put through the tyres, with more of an increase in grip as the heat increases.

R14-A

So this tyre is very similar to R14-0, there is the same amount of grip under braking and initial entry bite, with the same ‘hint’ of understeer mid-corner, which to me feels nice. The main difference I felt with this tyre was the rear stability, with a little more grip and a little more forgiveness and not so much of an aggressive ‘snap’ or slide. The rotation still felt too over- powering for me, with the rear still wanting to turn at high speed or when under lateral load, but the rate of rotation was slower and less ‘sudden’/aggressive. I would say that this tyre was a step forward in this area compared to R14-0 but with still too much instability and unpredictability on the rear.

R14-B

This tyre so far in comparison to the previous two is the best, due to more initial bite under braking meaning that you can brake later and deeper, as well as more rear stability, which builds confidence and is another step forward in improvement, but the rear is still too edgy through medium and high speed corners and so I feel it needs to be increased even more. The way it feels to me is that, it is all down to steering input, where the more you turn through the corner, the more the car will rotate, but as the grip increases on the rear, the more you are allowed to turn. This to me should not be the case, as you are always ‘treading on egg shells’ to try and find the correct amount of input to be fast, but not to lean on the tyre too much, to where it will snap.

Over kerbs, this tyre feels fine to me, with a decent amount of grip, which allows you to use them naturally and not too much grip to where they ‘sucker’ you in. One thing I do like in terms of the details to the kerbs is how your wheel/tyre can get stuck between the edge of the kerb and the concrete, which tries to pull you off the track. You can feel this in the FFB too and is a great detail to have.

R14-C

This tyre is more of an aggressive version of the R14-0 tyre, with the same amount of rear instability, but with more aggressive front initial bite, which the rear struggles to hang on to. Personally, I would say that the increase in front bite with this tyre makes the rotation issue worse and is a step back, but if you were to put the front initial bite onto the R14-B tyre, then this will improve initial entry, with more of a realistic chance of the rear holding. I would not count this tyre out, because we can use the aggression of the front tyres to our advantage once we sort the rear stability out.

R14-D

Ok, so as I work my way through the tyres, I would say that so far, in terms of balance, this tyre is the best. The tyre feels a lot more lazy and docile in comparison to the others and this makes the rear movement/rotation a lot more natural and controllable. It has pretty much shown me that the issue with the rear rotation is due to the aggression of the front tyres and not so much a rear stability issue. There is still some rotation and unrealistic instability and wheel-spin on the outside of the rear tyre, so it is also down to rear stability, but a lot of it is front aggression.

The interesting characteristic I felt with this tyre was that, there is more understeer in total, but the entry bite is not affected too much. It almost feels like the input of the steering wheel has slowed down a little at the same time to where the entry bite feels the same but the front tyre does not bite as much during the mid-corner phase, which makes the rear a lot more stable through high-speed and also on entry to high-speed. In total there is too much understeer, but this to me has been the biggest step forward in improving rear stability with the car being a lot more controllable and not so wild.

R14-E

This tyre feels like a similar/improved version of R14-C with similar initial entry bite, but with more rear stability, which makes the front feel a lot better initially. Personally, this tyre has the best front bite so far, but is let down by the lack of rear stability through high-speed. As I said, it is an improvement to R14-C in terms of rear stability, but there is still too much movement/rotation. With the improved balance of the rotation on the rear, it has improved slow speed understeer, but this is purely down to the rear rotating and not down to the front tyre producing the grip. This tyre for me is the best in initial front bite but needs to have characteristics of the other variants of R14 to make it the full package.

R14-G

This tyre is a very similar/slightly better version of R14-D with more understeer but improved rear stability both through medium and high-speed corners. The interesting characteristic I found with this tyre was that, the initial entry bite is less aggressive and more lazy in comparison to the other variants, but there seems to be another phase in the entry bite after the initial entry (if you understand what I mean.) The initial entry is more lazy but then the front bites more to bring the front in. This to me is the ‘best of both worlds’ where the initial bite is more docile to settle the rear on the way in, but then has more bite afterwards, which helps minimise understeer.

Overall balance wise, I think it is very close between this tyre and R14-D, but at the moment I think I would chose this tyre due to the great front hold and stability through high speed with hardly any rotation. On exit of medium speed corners, there is still instability at the rear, which to me needs to be improved and still feels unrealistic, but the high-speed stability and hold is the biggest step forward. This tyre has more understeer than R14-D but I think it has better all round characteristics based on its behaviour through high-speed corners.

R14-N

This tyre is the best so far, with pretty much everything I have been asking for throughout this blog other less slow-speed mid-corner understeer. The car to me feels really great, there is a lot of grip all round with great initial entry bite with no rear instability at all through medium speed and high-speed corners. Part of me feels that there is too much traction on power, where the car needs to move more on power and be more ‘free’. There feels like there is a little too much high-speed understeer, but this is me being picky and can be adjusted I’m sure with setup changes. I would like to experience some more movements under braking, with the car squirming, as at the moment, it is too safe on this tyre, both under braking and on power. I feel that we now need to make driver skill more important to make the tyre a little more realistic. Basically, the balance is very good, I feel we need to add in some more natural movements/instability for the car to feel more realistic when on the limit.

R14 – T

Ok so this tyre is sort of a mix of B, E and N with great initial entry bite, which E had, together with the high and medium speed stability that N had, but with less rear stability and grip than N, which is sort of like B but better. This tyre I think is the best version of all of the variants that I spoke about before tyre N and is a great step forward. This tyre is also very close to tyre N because it has better slow speed grip during the mid-corner phase, which is what I have also been asking for. What lets the tyre down and makes N the better ‘all round’ tyre is the fact that the rear movement feels quite unnatural as the movement is past the mid-corner phase, which makes it feel like the rear is floating. There is still a good amount of grip regardless of the movement, but it moves and rotates in the wrong phase of the corner in my eyes.

R14-W

This tyre I feel is very similar to R14-T but with another step up in terms of rear stability/grip. Front entry bite is near enough the same with more rear stability through medium and high-speed corners in comparison to R14-T. This tyre feels more natural on rear instability than all of the other variants, as there are improvements to on-power grip when the outside of the rear tyre is used, but also has some instability, which needs controlling when on the limit. Through high-speed, the car is planted and settled with no ‘floaty’ feeling, which is great. The balance between stability and instability with this tyre at the rear is what makes it feel more natural to drive, but there is still some parts of the outside of the tyre that bites you a little too much when used, this is very fine detail but needs to be looked into. Slow speed understeer feels near enough the same as R14-N with a little step backwards compared to the slow speed grip of R14-T.

Overall, it has been a great test, I am personally feeling that we should try these variants against R11, as part of me feels that this is a better base tyre to work from with more rear stability which feels more natural. I will leave this up to you AJ.

To finish off, I would say that Nic’s Tyre would be the stability and all round performance of R-14-N with the slow-speed mid-corner grip of R14-T, with the rear movement and small power instability of R14-W. I think that making the driver work harder when on the limit, with the car moving slightly under braking and on power is the best way to go, because at the moment, we are making great progress and the car is getting easier and more realistic to drive, but is yet to have the fine details/ movements that a driver has to go through every lap.

Thanks guys

Great work!

Nic"

Dcully wrote: »

I find the physics to be severely lacking compared to Assetto Corsa,iracing etc.

I find the FFB to be quite poor compared to AC. In iRacing I dont think the FFB is all that great, its good, but feels lacking in detail compared to AC.

Remember there is a long way to go in the games development. There is also a rather huge amount of content in comparison to AC, so it will take longer.

This is a great period for sim racers though, suddenly we have a few great games to choose from and finally we are getting graphics to reflect our hardware. It seemed that all of the simulator based racing games all had dated graphics.

There will be a lot of cars and tracks. Not the same amount of cars as in something like Gran Turismo, but the vast majority of them are mediocre anyway so more isnt better in that case.

There are a couple of point to point tracks along coastal routes which I love. You really feel like youre driving somewhere and its a blast just flying along, imagining its real life. When you see the changing weather you will be utterly amazed, its just so beautiful to look at in that respect.

I'm only after seeing this is from the same people that did shift, that was one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.

If it plays half as good as it looks it should be decent though. Is it supposed to be out this year or next?

bitch please wrote: »

have you played the game

Ive been playing it for about 18 months or so.

You cant get access now, you had to invest in it before the funding goal was reached. Then along came the Financial Services Authority in the UK to make sure it wasnt some kind of illegal investment scheme, which basically ended new accounts being setup. The FSA has now cleared everything and they could reopen for new accounts if they wanted to, but they dont require anyone else now, so you will have to wait until the game is officially released.

@Dcully : I know exactly what you mean about the input lag, thats what I meant when II spoke about the way the dealt with weight in the game. You would turn, but then it would take an age to turn back, as if the car was ultra heavy, heaving its sorry carcass about the track, causing you to over correct over and over and over instead of being a nimble and responsive race car like its meant to be.

In all honesty I only started playing at again in the last couple of weeks as the last house I was in I didnt have my racing rig setup, so didnt see the point in downloading each build to use my xbox controller, as I hate sim games with controllers. I just moved house and setup my rig again and decided to download the latest build. Even though I know the game is still early in development, and it certainly was when I was playing it before, I was still critical of the handling and I passed many comments on their forums about it. However after being ridiculed by several users who are seriously into the game, I decided to actually make a bit of effort as I found it odd they would defend it so strongly. So I setup my wheel properly, I then did a few things to get my SLI to work with the game, it doesnt work by default yet. This made a huge difference to the visual quality level as I play at 7680x1440 and it was quite bad before. The input lag is not even 5% of what Shift is like, not even remotely like it.

In fact, I was racing in the Lotus 49 in AC and then again in pCARS. If I really think about it, the car is more responsive in PCARS than in AC. Its ultra smooth, looks spectacular and Im not aware of enough input lag that I ever feel like there is a delay. Its not prefect yet, because there is still about 5 months to go and its getting to the point where they can stop building content from scratch and actually spend a huge amount of man hours refining the small details which will turn it from a great sim to the best sim.

Be wary of message boards and peoples opinions, including mine of course. Like you say you will get a demo and see for yourself. There are so many bitches in sim racing and so many seem to have their favourite and they blindly promote one over the other and talk utter crap about other games for some reason. I dont know why the scene is like this, sim racing has a limited enough appeal without all the divisions keeping people apart. The more quality titles the better for our hobby.

I like shift 2. I guess I am the only one. I played a good bit of it with my g27 and it works great. Input lag issue was patched out too.

Shift 2 is not AC or iracing, but it is still fun and driving feels dynamic and hectic.

If it's done by same people but not being buttplugged by EA massive corporate dido, then I bet this game will be good too.

Ive been offline for a couple of weeks, but I did notice that on TorrentDay they have a cracked version of Project CARS for people to play. I've no idea how they got around the online DRM log in, because I've not been able to play as I couldn't log in to verify my account, but it seems they have cracked it. So no doubt it will be on thepiratebay for you all to try for yourself. I'm interested to see what you think.

I would not think Im allowed to post links to torrent content,. but a quick Google should suffice.