Horrible day of fishing!

snow ghost · 01-07-2010 2:40am

davidk11811 wrote: »

True, worms have their place but the fact of the matter is Trout mainly eat flies, and there are lots of flies for different situations unlike the worm. Saying fly fishing is better and more reliable isn't being snobby.

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

bernard0368 · 01-07-2010 9:03am

Is there such thing as a horrible day fishing?

Keep at it and you will get there. When you do you will be truely hooked.

davidk11811 · 01-07-2010 9:34am

snow ghost wrote: »

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

Thanks I hope I catch next time!

ironbluedun · 05-07-2010 9:14am

snow ghost wrote: »

Good luck with your fly fishing david.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of fly fishing elitism and snobbery out there. Why I don't know - a knowledge of all angling methods is more beneficial. That said enjoy your angling and good luck with your next session.

The fly fishing elitists and snobbery theory these days is largely an ill-informed opinion… maybe back in the time of the landed gentry that stuff existed but its largely gone now….the real reason why experienced knowledgeable anglers dislike worm fishing for trout is that it is too indiscriminate and is not sympathetic to conservation….when the trout takes the worm he is a s good as dead….trout will gobble down worms and it is hard to remove a worm hook from a trout without damaging it ….even if the trout is returned bleeding/damaged the fish will die through blood loss or a secondary infection….also kelts and salmon parr are regularly caught on worms both of them will gobble them down quickly eventually resulting in death…and that is not mentioning other species of fish that take worms too....so this is the reason, now you know....so there is nothing snobby or elitist about those facts….I do fish for salmon with worms but not trout because I know what damage they can do there is nothing elitist about that way of thinking…..no doubt worm is more effective during periods of high water or floods, which ever you prefer to call them…but in normal or low water summertime fly-fishing is far more productive, just a little harder to understand at first and this where a lot of people have problems and opt for easier methods i.e. worms maggots etc…..but eventually as you progress and mature as an angler you learn more about your fish and what they eat then you will get sick of worm fishing and progress onto the fly,, it happens all the time....

coolwings · 05-07-2010 9:56am

snow ghost wrote: »

..... As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.
..You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.

snow ghost wrote: »

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.
Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods..., in reality they all have their place.

This is not a personal atack but a considered response to the suggestions at quotes above.

Each method has it's benefits, yes. Can be equally effective? No.
They are different benefits and some benefits are small and otehrs are large, so the methods are not equal.

Biased towards fly fishing? Some are, some are not. Most people have a method they are simple good at. Based on these posts you can be accused of being "anti-snob snob" and biased towards bait fishing! Not saying you are, but your post has the dismissive whiff of snobbery too.

Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful. Yes they do. But when feeding trout look up, and attack items at their own level or above it. They very rarely look down except when feeding on caddis larvae or bloodworm or shrimp in streams. Presentation at or above their level is effective, and as a bait fisher I bet you find a float helps results.

Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.
Absolutely agreed.
BUT: bait fishing by beginners does a certain thing to parr. It causes deep hooking. How many carry a disgorger in their pocket and can use it in 3 seconds?
You missed this aspect: fly fishing is effective in that every fish is a lip hooked fish. Consequently fishing is sustainable with more anglers on limited water if they fly fish the water. Making the most of our fish has got to be a good thing.

Methods I have caught trout that I remember right now: legered, long trotted, livebaited (used to be legal), upstream freelined, drop minnowed, spin, sink draw, plugged, dap from tree, dry fly, nymph. Baits I've had trout on are maggots white and dyed, redworms, brandling worms, lobworms, bread, dough, cheese, natural fly, grasshopper, minnow, stickleback, and caddis larva, I even caught them on frogs! No snob here.
Now an interesting thought is that my "fly" wallet contains artificial copies of grubs, maggots, worms, sticklebacks, minnows, crayfish, shrimp and winged flies too. So I just might be using artificial bait with my fly rod outfit, when I go fly fishing! The word "fly" indicates the rod and line and definitely not what I am presenting to a feeding trout!
I also use a ultralight spinning rod for trout, sometimes with a flyreel and a light line, othertimes with the spinning reel and mono. Here is the thing: the lure on the fly rod, is the same as the lure on the bait rod, an artificial version of actual bait.

They all have their place. Some of us have tried all too, and are not snobs, but willing to give advise on a very pleasant way to fish.

I take it you bait fish, which is fine - just wondering have you tried many different other ways yourself?

snow ghost · 05-07-2010 5:51pm

Coolwings,

I use all methods, I never said expressed a preference to one or the other.

Nothing against you or any other posters here who mostly fly fish, but there is an element of elitism in fly fishing, that's not to say you are exhibiting it.

I actually disagree about the deep hooking of trout when worming, of course it can happen, but more often it doesn't. I can honestly say that anytime I have been bait casting with a worm - and I've never, ever used a float - 95% of catches have been hokked in the lip/mouth.

As I said, a knowledge of all methods is most beneficial.

ButcherOfNog · 05-07-2010 7:02pm

snow ghost wrote: »

95% of catches have been hokked in the lip/mouth.

This comes down to proper bite detection, rather than method. That comes with experience. Personally I'd rather fly fish for Trout, for learners, go out with someone how knows what they are doing and learn from them, don't head out yourselves and expect to catch.

coolwings · 05-07-2010 7:25pm

Look: fly fishing is tough on beginners. Not all adults fish and can advise on fishing, especially parents.
And kids are beginners, and kids can use little rods with bait easier with no fishing expert parent to give fishing lessons and suchlike.
So lots of anglers will always learn other ways first, and come around to add the fly on after. That's fine, and there should be no criticism levelled, its not deserved.

Snow Ghost: Free lining a single worm upstream on a pennell rig for sighted trout is a highly skilled art for trouting which more "fly only" anglers should attempt, and fail at, and appreciate the difficulty of doing right!
Also, the humble worm is not the "bad boy" at all - it is that some beginner bait anglers often use maggots and strike late and that gets bait fishing a bad name. But that is a bad behaviour, and not a problem with bait, as such.

And float fishing ... well that's surely a bait fishing technique enough to get all who use them sent below when they die? But in that case - what are those funny floating indicator bung thingies some fly fishers never seem to be without on their lines? Aaah, it's ok - they are indicators, and not floats at all!

Sometimes lines of division get blurred!

Leaving the snob thing aside, because I have no time for idiots like that, and when I come across one I put extra effort to my fishing, and do my utmost to show their selective limitation of skills up. If they are dry fly I put on a nymph, and if they are exact imitation I reach for hairy monstrosities and tie one on! And I love seeing them cringe when I describe how I cut a double taper line in half to make two long belly shooting heads!

But if all clubs on trout holding waters banned maggots. We would not be having this "bait is good - bait is bad debate" at all. As I said, a lot of fly fishing is artificial bait fishing with a fly rod.
It is use of particle live baits, fished by beginners with bad fish handling skills, or overkill planned, that cause the majority of problems imo. Greedy killer anglers with maggots and swimfeeders will damage trout stocks where they are not rooted out and made to fish in an acceptable way instead.
The rooting out can be done either by snobs or by well adjusted people, I'm ok with the process both ways!

snow ghost · 05-07-2010 11:37pm

Coolwings,

I couldn't agree more that we need sustainable and responsible fishing.

I might be naive but I still think that the vast majority of anglers do care and can be encouraged to fish sustainably and responsibly. I see greater threats coming from outside those involved in angling, such as irresponsible farmers or businesses who are happy to polute our waterways.

Anyway, all the best

davidk11811 · 10-07-2010 10:40pm

My first ever trout caught, on the worm. I caught him in castlecoote and was primarily fishing for perch but caught him which was a nice surprise. he was returned back safely and luckily he was lip hooked. Second link is a decent sized perch i caught in castlecoote.

Horrible day of fishing!

Comments