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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    Coming off the M8 heading for the city centre seems to be a bit tortuous?

    Its pathetic and will cause problems as soon as its built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Its pathetic and will cause problems as soon as its built.

    It won't. You will have to go through 2 roundabouts to do this. However, this movement will have priority at both roundabouts and out of all the traffic movements, it will probably carry less than 10% of the junction traffic.

    The only problem may be people getting to understand the junction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    I think that with the North Ring road being planned, the thought was that there wouldn't be too many movements from M8 to City centre from dunkettle. Unfortunately the North Ring looks like a pipe dream at this stage


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Its pathetic and will cause problems as soon as its built.

    The idea is to pull traffic from Dublin down through the tunnel and into the city via the N27, with traffic from the east going in through Tivoli.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The idea is to pull traffic from Dublin down through the tunnel and into the city via the N27, with traffic from the east going in through Tivoli.

    I seriously doubt this. SRR is congested enough already. As I've said, this movement will have priority on both roundabouts and there won't be an issue.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I seriously doubt this. SRR is congested enough already. As I've said, this movement will have priority on both roundabouts and there won't be an issue.
    To be fair, so is the N8 inbound, there are regular delays where the dual carraigeway ends before the flyover (very shortsighted not having an extra 100m of DC and let it split at the flyover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    To be fair, so is the N8 inbound, there are regular delays where the dual carraigeway ends before the flyover (very shortsighted not having an extra 100m of DC and let it split at the flyover.

    Traffic usually ignores the line markings and form 2 lanes of traffic anyways. Should be lined like this I agree though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    The more I think about it, the more I think that this scheme and the M28 will get funding fairly shortly. Certainly Cork will have to be buttered up to some degree by the current government facing into the next general election.

    People, bookmark what I'm about to say.

    The opening of the Sarsfield and Bandon Road Roundabout flyovers resulted in one huge unintended consequence. That is huge tailbacks travelling east over the Douglas flyover. The current flyover, allied with inadequate space for merging is causing this. It only became apparent though with the extra flow through of traffic that the new flyovers caused.

    So, what about the other direction. At rush hour, there are considerable tailbacks travelling west over the Douglas flyover. Partially caused by merging from the Bloomfield Interchange and partially due to people slowing down going over the flyover and causing phantom tailbacks.

    Now, what exactly is gonna happen here when both the Dunkettle Interchange and M28 is done. There is going to be absolute chaos backing off the Douglas flyover travelling west at both rush hours.

    Both schemes will be complete and then we'll be crying out for a widening of the Douglas flyover to 3 lanes each way. It will have to be done IMO.

    Very interesting. You could well be on the money here.

    Again as someone else mentioned, a piece of the problem is that the NRA wanted a north ring but it's not really on the radar at all.

    We'll possibly have a South Ring in crisis before a North Ring happens. There's no Emergency Department Hospital easily accessible to East/North Cork, and the proposed Port traffic comes through Bloomfield Interchange so this issue would probably grow all sorts of arms and legs if you're right: particularly given the City/County split.

    On the City/County split itself: Douglas, Glanmire, Ballincollig, etc are all County. They're quite built up (around 60k people in just those three: same as Limerick City). The County needs the rates and is unwilling to hand over these areas to the City, so we have a situation where I guess something like half of the effective City population has a county address.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I seriously doubt this. SRR is congested enough already. As I've said, this movement will have priority on both roundabouts and there won't be an issue.

    I think you're wrong here (but hope you're right).

    I fear tailbacks both north and south of the interchange, where North-origin traffic mixes with South-origin traffic to get both East and West. They've proposed all this traffic merging at 50kmh, sharing with pedestrians and cyclists (who'll cross it at 90 degrees).

    At the moment traffic is backs up for several km North and South of the Interchange. It backs up again immediately east of the Interchange. I just don't see how this can all be processed into Little Island fast enough. I believe that the 10% of N-W traffic will be stuck behind another 70% of the traffic at rush hour.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Assuming the North Ring Road gets built at some stage, the rebranded M8 as N40 north of Dunkettle should be under motorway restrictions from the NRR through Dunkettle and through the tunnel.

    Only problem here is what happens with the all-purpose southbound N8 from the slip road to Dunkettle.

    The N8 should be redesignated the N25 from the Dunkettle ROUNDABOUT (where the N8 currently meets the R639) and given motorway restrictions as far as the HQDC extends eastwards to Carrigtwohill.

    Otherwise nothing stopping pedestrians walking on the freeflow interchange, reckless stuff.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Can that be done Marno?

    I might be wrong but I believe that you can only have motorway status where a secondary (non-motorway) route exists?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Can that be done Marno?

    I might be wrong but I believe that you can only have motorway status where a secondary (non-motorway) route exists?

    R639 alternative route for above Dunkettle
    Alternative for JLT would be through the city
    As for N25, old road? Not too familiar with that one.

    M50 and Port Tunnel in Dublin are the precedent for this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I think you're wrong here (but hope you're right).

    I fear tailbacks both north and south of the interchange, where North-origin traffic mixes with South-origin traffic to get both East and West. They've proposed all this traffic merging at 50kmh, sharing with pedestrians and cyclists (who'll cross it at 90 degrees).

    At the moment traffic is backs up for several km North and South of the Interchange. It backs up again immediately east of the Interchange. I just don't see how this can all be processed into Little Island fast enough. I believe that the 10% of N-W traffic will be stuck behind another 70% of the traffic at rush hour.

    2z843rk.png

    Bottom left is the movement in question.

    I wasn't correct actually. There is one movement which will take priority at the first roundabout, but it will take cars exiting from Little Island and that exit is usually very quiet.

    Should be alright I'd say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl



    Bottom left is the movement in question.

    I wasn't correct actually. There is one movement which will take priority at the first roundabout, but it will take cars exiting from Little Island and that exit is usually very quiet.

    Should be alright I'd say.

    Just to be clear for others I'm referring to all but the top left graphic using one lane. That lane will be 50kmh. It will have pedestrians and cyclists crossing at 90 degrees. And there is another traffic flow (from South to East/Little Island) also using that same lane.

    Given that Little Island currently sees 2km tailbacks most morning, I just can't see how this will work. The bottlenecks originate in the centre of Little Island itself, they will surely come back along the main road.

    I really hope I'm wrong, by the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    Just to be clear for others I'm referring to all but the top left graphic using one lane. That lane will be 50kmh. It will have pedestrians and cyclists crossing at 90 degrees. And there is another traffic flow (from South to East/Little Island) also using that same lane.

    Given that Little Island currently sees 2km tailbacks most morning, I just can't see how this will work. The bottlenecks originate in the centre of Little Island itself, they will surely come back along the main road.

    I really hope I'm wrong, by the way.

    Isn't that an entirely new road into Little Island though? (looking at the current road layout on googe maps) It may relieve the current road somewhat by letting vehicles destined for the westerly side to use the new junction instead?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Just to be clear for others I'm referring to all but the top left graphic using one lane. That lane will be 50kmh. It will have pedestrians and cyclists crossing at 90 degrees. And there is another traffic flow (from South to East/Little Island) also using that same lane.

    Given that Little Island currently sees 2km tailbacks most morning, I just can't see how this will work. The bottlenecks originate in the centre of Little Island itself, they will surely come back along the main road.

    I really hope I'm wrong, by the way.

    As Moyners has noted, this is a different entrance to the one that backs up in the mornings. There's no traffic lights at this one anywhere near the junction. Would be hopeful that no traffic will back up here.

    In fact, this should greatly improve access to Little Island.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Oh I do realise that, guys, I just don't believe Little Island itself can take the volume of traffic currently entering/exiting: the infrastructure within Little Island is not good enough. This new entrance to Little Island means all industrial traffic will pass the national school. I believe that the traffic will back up on to the main road, blocking the entire junction.

    And that's without discussing the pedestrian/cyclist crossing half way along the slip road. I just don't think that bringing the motorway traffic east will work out. In the long run, I see Dublin-Cork traffic going through Glanmire to avoid the interchange tailbacks.

    I hope you're both right guys, it'd be great if you are.
    I'd be happy to be wrong on this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    The other thing to note is that the majority of traffic into/out of Little Island does not access the west of the island. There's already an entrance at this side, which is not as heavily used as the eastern one.

    Almost all of the traffic will be going east upon entry.

    Now again, I hope you're both right and perhaps both entrances working together will solve the issue: fingers crossed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    The other thing to note is that the majority of traffic into/out of Little Island does not access the west of the island. There's already an entrance at this side, which is not as heavily used as the eastern one.

    Almost all of the traffic will be going east upon entry.

    Now again, I hope you're both right and perhaps both entrances working together will solve the issue: fingers crossed.

    I have only a passing knowledge of Little Island so I could very well be wrong ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep I have to deal with entrance to Little Island pretty regularly for work, variously from the North, and from the South.

    Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic though, having been stuck in traffic one too many a time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I get the impression than a lot of people have no knowledge of Little Islands western entrance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    I get the impression than a lot of people have no knowledge of Little Islands western entrance.

    Is that the one at the tunnel mouth?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Is that the one at the tunnel mouth?

    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I have heard that some traffic is now carrying on to the Fota/Cobh Junction slip road, returning from the East to access Little Island in the mornings "because it's faster than queuing the normal way or using the magic lane".
    The magic lane, of course, being the western entrance to Little Island.

    Basically, people find it's difficult to use the Western Entrance to Little Island because the volume of traffic clogs up the interchange. Traffic trying to cross lanes is impeded, rendering this entrance to Little Island less usable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    They should probably do a third entrance involving a new bridge but only accessible from the old road through Glounthaune.

    A slip entrance at the very east of Little Island when travelling west would be quite easy to do too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 703 ✭✭✭cork_south


    South ring eastbound towards the tunnel from 5pm onwards has become atrocious the last 2 weeks.
    Traffic backing up to Douglas.

    This interchange badly needs to be fixed.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cork_south wrote: »
    South ring eastbound towards the tunnel from 5pm onwards has become atrocious the last 2 weeks.
    Traffic backing up to Douglas.

    This interchange badly needs to be fixed.

    Have seen it back up as far as the on ramp at Kinsale Road sometimes. Douglas flyover narrowing to 2 lanes doesn't help either. This and M28 are crucial for Cork and are needed now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭kub


    marno21 wrote: »
    Have seen it back up as far as the on ramp at Kinsale Road sometimes. Douglas flyover narrowing to 2 lanes doesn't help either. This and M28 are crucial for Cork and are needed now.

    This was posted in the flyover thread 5 years ago.

    I've emailed the NRA asking them to provide some more information. While it's brilliant that this seems to be going ahead, it's just possible that the problems at the approach to the Jack Lynch Tunnel will worsen at peak times. In my email I've also asked them when they intend to make known their plans for Dunkettle.

    That poster was on the ball, i have to laugh at that thread now that others actually thought there would not be worst traffic problems east bound.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055853085


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    kub wrote: »
    This was posted in the flyover thread 5 years ago.

    I've emailed the NRA asking them to provide some more information. While it's brilliant that this seems to be going ahead, it's just possible that the problems at the approach to the Jack Lynch Tunnel will worsen at peak times. In my email I've also asked them when they intend to make known their plans for Dunkettle.

    That poster was on the ball, i have to laugh at that thread now that others actually thought there would not be worst traffic problems east bound.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055853085

    I still cannot understand how people didn't believe this would happen.

    My error was that I expected it would purely flood back from the tunnel. Turns out that the opening of the flyover has shown up the Douglas flyover as being a seriously weak point in the SRR that will eventually have to be sorted.

    If the tunnel and the N28 gets done, you'll have traffic backed up in both directions going over the flyover.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 703 ✭✭✭cork_south


    When they changed the lights at Mahon slip heading east to an orange filter it had a huge effect on the South Ring at peak times.


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