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Electric Ireland - charging for not using enough electricity.

13

Comments

  • #62
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    What a load of bollocks the whole thing is. Lets see what else we can apply it to. Ah I know - I use an above average amount of petrol in my car due to the mileage I drive. I propose that fuel taxes be increased for those who consume less.

    After all, if you're not driving "x" miles per year you must be some sort of hermit that doesn't leave the house. By your lack of consumption you're preventing fuel taxes from being lowered and also you're reducing the efficiency of Revenue/Customs. You need to be levied for this.

    :rolleyes:


  • #63
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    But Electricity Ireland will not average it out over the year.

    Their website makes it clear the charge is calculated per two month billing period:
    https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/price-plans/low-user-standing-charge.jsp#ex-q3

    A lot of people are going to be hit with this over the summer. FFS :mad:

    Who is the minister over energy? Is it Pat Rabbitte?


  • #64
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    woodoo wrote: »
    A lot of people are going to be hit with this over the summer. FFS :mad:

    Who is the minister over energy? Is it Pat Rabbitte?

    Probably more down to removing the need for approval from the regulator, going on previous posts in the thread.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #65
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Head The Wall wrote: »
    The percentage of their costs may have decreased but has the actual costs of the pay and pensions decreased?


    yes they have, imagine that! Decreased by 30% the employee costs of the power generation did. Semi-state company in employee cost reduction shocker!


  • #66
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    woodoo wrote: »
    They are already paying a standing charge. What is that for?

    They can insist on emailed bills.

    covering admin costs on account, emailing bills is not free, meter maintenance and read checks. its clear a loss is being made on the low usage accounts, much rather see those who are causing the lost covering this than everyone else


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  • #67
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    covering admin costs on account, emailing bills is not free, meter maintenance and read checks. its clear a loss is being made on the low usage accounts, much rather see those who are causing the lost covering this than everyone else

    I'd rather see the ESB take paycuts like most other people have experienced, Even the public sector have seen them.


  • #68
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    To the people saying it's crazy to charge low users more for using less, would you say it's ridiculous to charge bulk buyers less for using more? This is no different to raising prices on average, and then offering discounts to those who buy more. Same thing as offering a 3 for 2 on batteries, just a different way of phrasing it.


  • #69
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    TheChizler wrote: »
    To the people saying it's crazy to charge low users more for using less, would you say it's ridiculous to charge bulk buyers less for using more? This is no different to raising prices on average, and then offering discounts to those who buy more. Same thing as offering a 3 for 2 on batteries, just a different way of phrasing it.

    But they aren't offering discount to those that use more.


  • #70
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    TBH I think you are buying the spin the ESB has put on this.
    This affects houses which use less than 2 units, approx 35 cent, worth of electricity a day. Add in the standing charge of approx 33c a day. That gives a bill of around €41 per two months.

    Excluding mircogen does any occupied home in the country manage bills that low?

    Don't get me wrong, I think ESB are a bunch of overpaid wasters, but I'd rather not be subsidising the costs of providing a supply, meter reading etc, to holiday homes etc., and therefore would prefer the owners bore more of the cost themselves.


  • #71
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,832 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    My own (Bord Gais) electricity bill for Jan/Feb came to 83 euro - and I now work from home so the house is occupied all day, I have had the lights on, regular injections of coffee, the broadband going all the time, 2 laptops and a desk top on for approx 12 hours per day, I have done loads of loads of laundry thanks to 2 under fives, even used the tumble dryer at least twice a week, TV, SKY box, PS3, printer rattling away, daily showers, fridge and 2 freezers on 24/7 - all for less then 42 euro a month during winter. I simply have AAA rated appliances and a very energy efficient house.

    So you say you're under 2 euro a day - that's not under 2 units a day, far from it.

    A Sky box on standby will use at least a quarter of a unit a day, alone - the older Sky boxes can use twice that.

    Not everyone has Sky, but everyone has a fridge, and most people with gas or oil heating will have a central heating pump running several hours a day in winter.

    Also - will this charge even apply to Bord Gais customers - Irish Times website earlier today implied it would not.

    Life ain't always empty.



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  • #72
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,832 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    What a load of bollocks the whole thing is. Lets see what else we can apply it to. Ah I know - I use an above average amount of petrol in my car due to the mileage I drive. I propose that fuel taxes be increased for those who consume less.

    After all, if you're not driving "x" miles per year you must be some sort of hermit that doesn't leave the house. By your lack of consumption you're preventing fuel taxes from being lowered and also you're reducing the efficiency of Revenue/Customs. You need to be levied for this.

    :rolleyes:

    Not rolleyes. That's exactly the effect of road tax - penalise people who don't use their car much by putting up their cost per mile substantially.
    If you do a large mileage then the cost of road tax will be pretty much insignificant compared to what you're paying in fuel duty.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #73
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    covering admin costs on account, emailing bills is not free, meter maintenance and read checks. its clear a loss is being made on the low usage accounts, much rather see those who are causing the lost covering this than everyone else

    To quote the CER:
    Standing Charge

    The standing charge covers the upkeep of the network necessary to bring supply to your home, together with the cost of reading the meter, issuing and processing the bills, etc.

    That is what the existing standing charge is supposed to cover.

    The logical response to this measure is for a low electricity user to increase their electricity consumption thus artificially driving up demand for electricity. Should that result in increased CO2 emissions, the bill for breeching our Kyoto CO2 emission targets will hit all tax-payers here.


  • #74
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ninja900 wrote: »
    So you say you're under 2 euro a day - that's not under 2 units a day, far from it.

    A Sky box on standby will use at least a quarter of a unit a day, alone - the older Sky boxes can use twice that.

    Not everyone has Sky, but everyone has a fridge, and most people with gas or oil heating will have a central heating pump running several hours a day in winter.

    Also - will this charge even apply to Bord Gais customers - Irish Times website earlier today implied it would not.

    My electricity bill which arrived last week was 82.50 euro.
    The electricity bill before that was 84.30 euro.
    The one before that was 79.78 euro.
    I checked.
    If you had read my post before deciding to pick holes in it I did not say that was under 2 units a day - I said that was the bill for a house that is occupied all day. When I worked outside the home for 13 hours a day 6 days a week as I did for many years my electricity use at home was negligible.
    If I was then penalised for that - I would be less then happy. Indeed, I would switch suppliers.

    My appliances are never left on standby - did you not know that uses electricity!

    I heat my home by solid fuel - wood.
    My gas boiler comes on for 15 minutes a day - max. That makes enough hot water for 3 adults to shower.

    As I said in my OP - I am with BG so this does not affect me. I just think it is outrageous and cannot help but think that the ESB's announcement today (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0229/1224312525460.html) that it intends to cut internal costs is a direct result of people being annoyed at their latest screw their customers wheeze.


  • #75
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    ninja900 wrote: »
    So you say you're under 2 euro a day - that's not under 2 units a day, far from it.

    A Sky box on standby will use at least a quarter of a unit a day, alone - the older Sky boxes can use twice that.

    Not everyone has Sky, but everyone has a fridge, and most people with gas or oil heating will have a central heating pump running several hours a day in winter.

    Also - will this charge even apply to Bord Gais customers - Irish Times website earlier today implied it would not.

    Its the principle of it.

    It could be a slippery slope too. 2 units this year, 4 units they claim in a couple of years. And on and on.


  • #76
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    My electricity bill which arrived last week was 82.50 euro.
    The electricity bill before that was 84.30 euro.
    The one before that was 79.78 euro.
    I checked.
    If you had read my post before deciding to pick holes in it I did not say that was under 2 units a day - I said that was the bill for a house that is occupied all day. When I worked outside the home for 13 hours a day 6 days a week as I did for many years my electricity use at home was negligible.
    If I was then penalised for that - I would be less then happy. Indeed, I would switch suppliers.

    My appliances are never left on standby - did you not know that uses electricity!

    I heat my home by solid fuel - wood.
    My gas boiler comes on for 15 minutes a day - max. That makes enough hot water for 3 adults to shower.

    As I said in my OP - I am with BG so this does not affect me. I just think it is outrageous and cannot help but think that the ESB's announcement today (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0229/1224312525460.html) that it intends to cut internal costs is a direct result of people being annoyed at their latest screw their customers wheeze.

    Assuming you are on the rural 24 hour rate with Bord Gais with the 14% discount and the billing period is two months.

    Standing daily rate is €0.4271 muiltiplied by 61 giving a two month total of €26.05.

    That means on the bill of €82.50 you spent €56.45 on units of electricity. Each unit with Bord Gais costs €0.1541 which means you used approximately 366 units over the two month period. Dividing again by the 61 days gives an average unit per day of just over 6, three times the limit set by the ESB.

    Effectively, if you were with the ESB, you would have to cut your electricity usage by two-thirds to be caught by the new restrictions. Given you use solid fuel heating and gas for water (is your stove solid fuel, electricity or gas?) and you do not leave any electrical appliances plugged in on standby, it is difficult to see how you could reduce your bill further. Even being outside the house during daylight hours would have only a minor effect.

    There is nothing therefore in your bills to suggest that anyone other than an empty house will be affected.


  • #77
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Godge wrote: »
    Assuming you are on the rural 24 hour rate with Bord Gais with the 14% discount and the billing period is two months.

    Standing daily rate is €0.4271 muiltiplied by 61 giving a two month total of €26.05.

    That means on the bill of €82.50 you spent €56.45 on units of electricity. Each unit with Bord Gais costs €0.1541 which means you used approximately 366 units over the two month period. Dividing again by the 61 days gives an average unit per day of just over 6, three times the limit set by the ESB.

    Effectively, if you were with the ESB, you would have to cut your electricity usage by two-thirds to be caught by the new restrictions. Given you use solid fuel heating and gas for water (is your stove solid fuel, electricity or gas?) and you do not leave any electrical appliances plugged in on standby, it is difficult to see how you could reduce your bill further. Even being outside the house during daylight hours would have only a minor effect.

    There is nothing therefore in your bills to suggest that anyone other than an empty house will be affected.

    By being out at work all day rather the working from home all day.

    You seem to be arguing for the sake of it Godge - I made it clear these were bills for a house occupied all day. Were I back in my external (and black mould ridden) office I would be using their electricity to power 2 laptops and one desktop for around 10 hours p.d, plus scanners, printers and assorted electrical fol-do-rols, their lights, their heating not to mention to make an ocean of coffee rather then my own electricity as I currently do. Then my house would be empty for around 12 hours a day.
    I would be asleep for 8 of the remaining 12 hours (with everything turned off :D). So yes, in the 4 hours I may be awake in my house a day my electricity usage could drop from the current 6 units to less then 2.


  • #78
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    By being out at work all day rather the working from home all day.

    You seem to be arguing for the sake of it Godge - I made it clear these were bills for a house occupied all day. Were I back in my external (and black mould ridden) office I would be using their electricity to power 2 laptops and one desktop for around 10 hours p.d, plus scanners, printers and assorted electrical fol-do-rols, their lights, their heating not to mention to make an ocean of coffee rather then my own electricity as I currently do. Then my house would be empty for around 12 hours a day.
    I would be asleep for 8 of the remaining 12 hours (with everything turned off :D). So yes, in the 4 hours I may be awake in my house a day my electricity usage could drop from the current 6 units to less then 2.

    I doubt very much if your current 6 units could drop to less than 2 in any circumstances.

    Your heaviest appliances are your fridge and washing machine (and freezer if you have one) and your use of those would not change. Unless you were eating out every day and not cooking any meals at home, you will still have some bill for a kettle (and cooker if it is electric or microwave). Vacuum cleaner needs to be used as well. As well as that there are weekends and bank holidays to consider. You might be able to get your consumption as low as 3.5 - 4 units average per day but no less than that.

    I am not arguing for the sake of it, I am pointing out that this is all a big fuss over nothing, that the only houses likely to be affected are empty houses, I have shown that there are more than enough empty houses in the country according to the census to account for the 10% of households to be affected.

    There are people who will complain about everything these days, I wish people would examine the facts before jumping to the conclusion that the state is out to get them or that a particular measure is unfair.


  • #79
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Godge wrote: »
    I doubt very much if your current 6 units could drop to less than 2 in any circumstances.

    Your heaviest appliances are your fridge and washing machine (and freezer if you have one) and your use of those would not change. Unless you were eating out every day and not cooking any meals at home, you will still have some bill for a kettle (and cooker if it is electric or microwave). Vacuum cleaner needs to be used as well. As well as that there are weekends and bank holidays to consider. You might be able to get your consumption as low as 3.5 - 4 units average per day but no less than that.

    I am not arguing for the sake of it, I am pointing out that this is all a big fuss over nothing, that the only houses likely to be affected are empty houses, I have shown that there are more than enough empty houses in the country according to the census to account for the 10% of households to be affected.

    There are people who will complain about everything these days, I wish people would examine the facts before jumping to the conclusion that the state is out to get them or that a particular measure is unfair.

    It's not the State - it's the ESB, a semi-state that refused to bring it's CEO salary into line with the pay cap, that charges significantly more then it's rivals to undertake the same tasks (meter reading etc), and that pays it's employees on average 75k a year - I wonder how much they pay their metre readers?
    An overall profitable organisation that has major overheads due to it's high salaries and pension black-hole is seeking to recoup some of those losses by penalising people who already pay the 'admin/services' fee via standing orders but do not, for what ever reason, consume enough of their product. Those reason can be many - long working/commuting hours leaving the home unoccupied for most of the week, energy efficiency, alternative power sources or yes - it could be a holiday home - but the latter 'let's hit those with an extra house' is no excuse.
    So what if it is a holiday home, or a house inherited from a dead relative that hasn't sold in the current depressed housing market or buy to let property with no tenants at present? If they have their electricity with ESB they are paying standing orders - did the ESB offer read your own metre option?

    They could have just as easily said our records show you have low usage so in future you have the option of having your metre read by our operatives once a year. You will be required to read your own metre and log on to www.dotheESBsjobfor them.ie and supply the reading every 2 months. Failure to do so will result in additional charges being applied. If you do not wish to avail of this option the low user standing charge of xx.xx will be applied to your account when applicable.

    Just for you I dug out my 'not working from home bills' - granted the prices were different so no point comparing those then so I checked the units used - and yup - on average less then 2 units a day. Sometimes by only one unit, but the highest when averaged out was 13 units a week. If I had gotten those solar panels I was going to get 5 years ago (I wanted photovoltaic to provide electricity rather then the supply hot water ones only) I wouldn't have even used that much TBH.


  • #80
    DonegalBonz
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭DonegalBonz


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    As I said in my OP - I am with BG so this does not affect me. I just think it is outrageous and cannot help but think that the ESB's announcement today (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0229/1224312525460.html) that it intends to cut internal costs is a direct result of people being annoyed at their latest screw their customers wheeze.

    Just for clarity this was announced last year.

    http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/esb-planning-to-cut-pay-bill-by-20-to-boost-competitiveness-144189.html


  • #81
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭lostboy75


    what is the money for?
    dont have a bill to hand here, at work, but the standing charge is what?
    12 euro or so?
    from that they send me one letter every 2 months - cost not alot,
    every 4 months some one comes out and reads my meter? (other readin an estimate) what % cost can you give to 1 house from his days run?
    yes the standing charge cover other items but to mention the above costs as if its a huge figure is misleading.

    as far as i am concerned, empty houses that are still connected are paying quite a bit for a service they are not using.


    from their site
    "The Standing charge is a combination of the fixed charges associated with providing electricity network services (e.g. meter reading and network operations/maintenance) and a share of the supply costs in servicing your electricity account"


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  • #82
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    from their site
    "The Standing charge is a combination of the fixed charges associated with providing electricity network services (e.g. meter reading and network operations/maintenance) and a share of the supply costs in servicing your electricity account"

    Meter readings and network operations/maintenance is handled by ESB Networks, not Electric Ireland. They are supposed to be functionally separate companies.

    Maybe it would be better if everybody got a separate bill from ESB Networks for this, and paid Electric Ireland just for the electricity - which would take the middle-man out of it. Does anybody know what rate Electric Ireland (and Airtricity/BGE) pay ESB Networks for this work?


  • #83
    puffdragon
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭puffdragon


    Maybe Electric Ireland and the Renewable energy people should have a meeting sometime , the relatively small long term cost saving in installing a wind turbine has just been eliminated. Since Fas and Social Welfare depts are now talking to each other maybe these two should also. Electric Ireland would be much better off investing in some customer relations .

    We know it's for sale so maybe they can add some value to projected profits by this move.


  • #84
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Meter readings and network operations/maintenance is handled by ESB Networks, not Electric Ireland. They are supposed to be functionally separate companies.

    Maybe it would be better if everybody got a separate bill from ESB Networks for this, and paid Electric Ireland just for the electricity

    That is a good point.

    It raises the question as to why Electric Ireland is charging different Standing Charges to different customers since ESB networks is doing most of the work and is presumably billing all Electricity Suppliers at the same rate for the work that it does.

    Maybe the explanation is that Electric Ireland is managing somehow to lose money when generating the bills it sends its low usage customers?

    Based on the difference in what it is charging in standing charges - and its own statements - that would mean it is managing to lose almost 10 Euro per bill when processing the data it receives from ESB networks!!!


  • #85
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Godge wrote: »
    I am not arguing for the sake of it, I am pointing out that this is all a big fuss over nothing, that the only houses likely to be affected are empty houses

    That though is incorrect.

    Given the current economic crisis, there are people working abroad for much of the month with their "main homes" (as they'd see it) in Ireland. Their reward for not sitting around on the dole costing the tax-payer money will be to get a nice "Welcome Home" bill from Electric Ireland.

    Likewise, in the Summer most people's electricity usage drops. Take a holiday - it drops even further. But, never mind, Electric Ireland will bring you back to earth when they hit you with their low usage standing charge for not using electricity when you were away on your holidays.

    Maybe the government should also send people a bill for all the taxes the government loses out on while people are on their holidays abroad? It does mean people are not spending VAT on food or excise duty on fuel and alcohol at home after all.

    Such "low usage" tax-payers can't expect the government to forgo its taxes just because they have decided to go abroad on a holiday, can they?


  • #86
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Are we seriously expected to believe that there are 130,000 houses/apartments in this country that are unoccupied or only used a few weeks a year as holiday homes?

    Probably yes.

    Try any family from a rural background that's now mostly living in cities; of which there are huge amounts. There'll be holiday homes anf former family homes that are kept for occasional use. In my direct family we have three houses which are used that rarely, one of which has two separate power systems (former family industrial buildings on the site, no idea why its still separate as its not three phase). Normal sized family, four connections that are all under 2 units a day for at least two quarters of the year usually.

    Would also imagine there's small farmers with segregated sites and outbuildings that were once houses and still have domestic connections; boat houses, allotment sheds, stables and the like that have power but little draw, and so on. In Ireland the default for services for small businesses appears to be to use a domestic one until you need more capacity or get caught, applies to power, broadband, bins, the works.


  • #87
    avalon68
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭avalon68


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    There is no need to even introduce the topic of SW and fuel allowance - it is a complete red herring.

    There is no justification for charging some people more for consuming less of a product.

    I also wouldn't consider circa 130,000 households a small number (10% of 1.3 million domestic customers). Are we seriously expected to believe that there are 130,000 houses/apartments in this country that are unoccupied or only used a few weeks a year as holiday homes?

    Even if there are - which I seriously doubt - why should they be forced to pay a penalty for each day they fail to consume enough of a particular product?

    There is justification if the income generated from a property doesn't cover the costs of maintaining an electricity line into the property. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were 130000 empty properties in the country....there must have been over a hundred in the area I'm from when I visited over Christmas. And that's probably true of many towns in Ireland right now


  • #88
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    View wrote: »
    That though is incorrect.

    Given the current economic crisis, there are people working abroad for much of the month with their "main homes" (as they'd see it) in Ireland. Their reward for not sitting around on the dole costing the tax-payer money will be to get a nice "Welcome Home" bill from Electric Ireland.

    Likewise, in the Summer most people's electricity usage drops. Take a holiday - it drops even further. But, never mind, Electric Ireland will bring you back to earth when they hit you with their low usage standing charge for not using electricity when you were away on your holidays.

    Maybe the government should also send people a bill for all the taxes the government loses out on while people are on their holidays abroad? It does mean people are not spending VAT on food or excise duty on fuel and alcohol at home after all.

    Such "low usage" tax-payers can't expect the government to forgo its taxes just because they have decided to go abroad on a holiday, can they?


    As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the Census figures show that there are plenty of unoccupied houses. This whole thread is a complete red herring. That is also backed up by the way this has disappeared from the main media as an issue.


  • #89
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Godge wrote: »
    As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the Census figures show that there are plenty of unoccupied houses. This whole thread is a complete red herring. That is also backed up by the way this has disappeared from the main media as an issue.

    Well, if you think a semi-state company charging two different rates to deliver the exact same service to customers who could be living on the same road is a "complete red herring", fair enough.

    Personally, I suspect that once a few customers start getting hit with this charge when they go away on their Summer holidays, it'll start re-appearing in the main media. Most people won't actually like being forced to pay extra when they consume less.


  • #90
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    I don't understand why people are getting annoyed a bill increase which a) is small b) will affect very few people c) Will primarily affect more wealthy people who own holiday homes. This will not affect people who are saving electricity, unless they are saving electricity by using none.


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  • #91
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    andrew wrote: »
    I don't understand why people are getting annoyed a bill increase which a) is small b) will affect very few people c) Will primarily affect more wealthy people who own holiday homes. This will not affect people who are saving electricity, unless they are saving electricity by using none.
    First of all, 2 units per day is not none. Secondly, if you read the thread I and others have described circumstances where usage can be under 2 units per day.

    Spare me this bull about "wealthy people with holiday homes".

    There's a stink of begrudgery off this thread. I'd say that those cheerleading this increase have big bills and thought it was "impossible" for someone to run a house on much less. It must be annoying to then discover that they were wrong and that they have paid out potentially thousands more over the years than less wasteful people.

    Just got my bill, 108 units in 63 days. Average sized fridge freezer has been plugged in all that time and obviously I've been using other items as well. Yet according to "an ESB spokesman" in this article
    Two units per day would be consumed by, for example, a small fridge-freezer on all day

    :rolleyes:


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