Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

KCAccidental · 25-05-2012 5:21pm

Corholio wrote: »

Agree on the stopping at Urlingford thing. I wouldn't mind stopping if it stopped all the time and you know about it, but stopping randomly is awkward. I missed a connecting bus in Cork by 4 min, the bus having stopped in Urlingford on the way down.

Also just a little tip, if your ever in Cork that early in the morning 1-5am etc, there's a 24 hour internet place a few doors down from the McDonald's past Brown Thomas. Very handy place.

yeah and that internet cafe now has a very nice little cafe in it that stays open all night as well.

invinciblePRSTV · 25-05-2012 8:39pm

Took the 3pm 'express' and have to say the 5 minute Urlingford stopover was no biggie. Then again I was not in a hurry and did need to urinate so I wasn't put out by stopping there.

In contrast I've taken the BE service which stops for 15-20 minutes minimum at Urlingford (frequently longer as the driver had to wait for the bus coming in the opposite direction so to change over with that driver).

Only complaint was the bus being stopped in one of the traffic lanes by Kent Station as some kids were dropped off by mammy in her car which she used to block the bus. I hate that sh*t, especially when the bus was already a few minutes late leaving the terminus!

Tragedy · 27-05-2012 7:52pm

markpb wrote: »

Charming post. Maybe you have a short term memory but when Dublin Bikes was first mentioned the papers and this forum were awash with the usual hand wringing naysayers claiming it would never work because nackers would dump them in the river, kick the wheels in while they were at the stands and generally claim that the entire system was a waste of time and money because Irish people are sub-human.

That's nice, but unless you can link to a post of mine where I wrote that Dublin Bikes would never work because knackers would dump them in the river, please don't post as if I did to try undermine my post. It's dishonest and childish.

The same was said when the Luas was planned to go through Rialto, Drimnagh and Tallagh. The trams would be destroyed, bricked, graffitted, etc, etc, and would end up being cancelled.

Did I post that too? ASBO problems on the red line luas are well documented both on here and in the national press, so your argument is immediately undermined and rendered pointless (if not silly). The fact there have been reports of poor behaviour on the green line since it extended also undermines your argument.

Now, several years later here we are, all the bikes are intact, the trams are a roaring success, the doom and gloom crowd were wrong but they've moved on to claiming that expensive buses are a waste of time because people will damage them. And around we go on the merryground that is "it'll never work in Ireland".

That's also nice, shame you don't actually have a cohesive or coherent argument instead being forced to relate to prior arguments that have nothing to do with Aircoach or bus services in general.

I notice you still ignore the shocking state of much of the DB fleet (i.e. a bus service) and continue to rave about Dublin Bikes and the Luas instead.
Funny that.

Also odd that you ignore the well documented example of ryanair removing reclining seats and tray table for (among other reasons) reducing costs due to the amount of extra maintenance and repair work they caused.
Instead your best and closest example is a bike. A bike? Ludicrous.

devnull · 29-05-2012 9:29pm

The trouble about turning such lights off on the coach on the late service and having it dark is that as soon as someone falls or injures themselves they will end up with a personal injury claim so they are no doubt sure to want to avoid that.

I can't see the fuss about someone having the radio on either, these drivers are driving two x 3.5 hour journey per shift on the overnights, having such radio I don't think is too much to ask as long as it's not blaring out like crazy.

As for the white Caetano coach I've read elsewhere today that it's a temporary vehicle which has replaced the 2011 Plaxton Panther, again it's on loan from Volvo, apparently to cover for warranty work to the triaxles.

KCAccidental · 30-05-2012 3:26am

I see that BE have started advertising the new expressway buses pretty vigorously around Cork. Plenty of posters at bus shelters promoting the comfort of the triaxle coach as well as free wifi asking us the "Fly Expressway"

AlekSmart · 30-05-2012 6:41am

devnull wrote: »

The trouble about turning such lights off on the coach on the late service and having it dark is that as soon as someone falls or injures themselves they will end up with a personal injury claim so they are no doubt sure to want to avoid that.

I can't see the fuss about someone having the radio on either, these drivers are driving two x 3.5 hour journey per shift on the overnights, having such radio I don't think is too much to ask as long as it's not blaring out like crazy.

As for the white Caetano coach I've read elsewhere today that it's a temporary vehicle which has replaced the 2011 Plaxton Panther, again it's on loan from Volvo, apparently to cover for warranty work to the triaxles.

A "Verhicle" is about the most accurate description for the White Caetano Coach,as in spite of Looking like a Levante and Quacking like a Levante it cannot be referred to as a Levante.(Without attracting a baleful Legal Glare from National Express

)

It appears to be a somewhat unusual Volvo B11 underframe with a the body "formerly known as Levante" mounted upon it.

As other posters have pointed out,the Levante has been a bit of a curates egg in UK NX service and is unlikely to find much support outside of National Express's territory.

This particular model sports a quite energetic interior colour scheme,described to me as headache inducing....:)

I would suggest that the "Full Accessibility" feature may be the interesting part of the spec as the NTA appear to be becoming concerned at the lack of "Full" accessibility on many opf the newer services now licenced....;)

bk · 30-05-2012 9:09am

I've seen the new White Caetano Coach arround Dublin and it looks like a lovely coach, from the outside at least.

However I'm not sure if it has the accessible toilet, at least I couldn't see it through the window (in fairness hard due to being very dark windows) as it past by. Anyone seen it inside and now for a fact? Also what route is it being used on?

BTW do the Dublin Coach buses have toilets? I noticed one passing, that seemed to be missing some seats in the middle of the coach, so I assume that it does have a toilet (the GoBus buses have a toilet at this position).

bk · 30-05-2012 9:53am

Tragedy wrote: »

Also odd that you ignore the well documented example of ryanair removing reclining seats and tray table for (among other reasons) reducing costs due to the amount of extra maintenance and repair work they caused.

I think Ryanair faced a different challenge then the coach industry faced.

In the past the airline industry always offered a high quality premium service. The trick for Ryanair here was to disrupt this existing market by cutting costs to the bone and instead offering very cheap tickets to as a wide a market as possible.

Their tool to disrupt the incumbent was cost reduction.

I see the coach industry facing a different challenge, coach will always be significantly cheaper then rail, due to the nature of it. So while of course the coach industry wants to keep costs low, I think the bigger challenge they face is throwing off the opinion Irish people have of coach travel as being uncomfortable, cheap and nasty and only suitable for broke students.

Instead the coach industry needs to improve the quality of their service to try and attract all those customers off rail and onto their coaches.

I see the coach industries tools of disruption being high quality of service, at low prices (relevant to rail).

BTW while I fly Ryanair, I always check Aerlingus too. If the Aerlingus tickets price is within a reasonable difference of Ryanair (say 20%), I always book Aerlingus, for the more comfortable seats, table, better airport locations, use of gates for boarding, allocated seating, etc.

There maybe a lesson here for the coach industry, I think people would be willing to pay a few euros more for a premium quality coach service, after all it would still be multiple times cheaper then rail.

Tragedy wrote: »

Instead your best and closest example is a bike. A bike? Ludicrous.

No, he is correctly illustrating an awful opinion that many Irish people seem to have. That we can't have anything nice because it will be vandalised and/or stolen.

This was in particular evident before the launch of Dublin Bikes, with lots of people, including in the media, saying that it would never work, that all the bikes would be vandalised, stolen and thrown in the river. Instead it turned out to be a massive success, one of the most successful schemes of it's type ever.

It proved all the begrudgers wrong, it proved that we can roll out nice infrastructure and have nice things.

Of course vandalism will happen, as it does in every city in the world. I'm currently sitting in Prague with one of the finest public transport systems in the world, yet I still see lots of vandalism and graffiti. Same in London, etc.

But they don't leave the very small majority of vandals stop them from rolling out high quality new infrastructure for their citizens.

I subscribe to the broken window theory, if a window is broken and is quickly fixed and graffiti quickly washed away, etc. then vandals tend to get board with it and stop vandalising. However if you leave the broken window there for a long time, they generally the place becomes decrepit.

I find if you have nice, clean modern infrastructure (and buses and trains), that is well maintained and looked after, people are far less likely to vandalise it. It is the old crappy bus with thorn seats or the dark, decrepit train station are the places that are likely to be vandalised.

Don't give into the vandals, expect better.

devnull · 30-05-2012 10:46am

KCAccidental wrote: »

I see that BE have started advertising the new expressway buses pretty vigorously around Cork. Plenty of posters at bus shelters promoting the comfort of the triaxle coach as well as free wifi asking us the "Fly Expressway"

I've seen ads for that absolutely everywhere and online as well, they are really going for it, but I still can't see a reason for people to choose Bus Eireann vehicles and spend 90 minutes extra on a coach no matter how luxury they are, because the only think they have that Aircoach do not is the plug sockets. The legroom and seats are both inferior in my opinion.

AlekSmart wrote: »

A "Verhicle" is about the most accurate description for the White Caetano Coach,as in spite of Looking like a Levante and Quacking like a Levante it cannot be referred to as a Levante.(Without attracting a baleful Legal Glare from National Express )

It appears to be a somewhat unusual Volvo B11 underframe with a the body "formerly known as Levante" mounted upon it. As other posters have pointed out,the Levante has been a bit of a curates egg in UK NX service and is unlikely to find much support outside of National Express's territory.

This particular model sports a quite energetic interior colour scheme,described to me as headache inducing....:)

Indeed, it is a bit of an unusual coach to see on these shores and from what you say, not just with the body but also the interior style and chassis selection. Presumably why it is a demo vehicle and being used on loans to operators by Volvo.

bk wrote: »

I've seen the new White Caetano Coach arround Dublin and it looks like a lovely coach, from the outside at least.

However I'm not sure if it has the accessible toilet, at least I couldn't see it through the window (in fairness hard due to being very dark windows) as it past by. Anyone seen it inside and now for a fact? Also what route is it being used on?

BTW do the Dublin Coach buses have toilets? I noticed one passing, that seemed to be missing some seats in the middle of the coach, so I assume that it does have a toilet (the GoBus buses have a toilet at this position).

I'm glad you like the look of the outside of the coach, and if you like the look of it even better, but as I've said previously, and other posters have said there are very little people who are fans of i t as it's a flawed coach in many respects unless they've ironed out a few of the issues in the last year.

I'm not sure what relevance it has if it has a accessible toilet because it's only going to be here for a short while all being well, as like has been explained before it is a loan vehicle from Volvo to compensate for doing work for other Volvo based vehicles that is covered under warranty. In such situations Volvo will just loan out whatever demo/vehicle they have in stock at the time and the operator gets very little, if any choice as it's a gesture of goodwill on behalf of the chassis manufacturer.

The Dublin coach vehicles you refer to have a Continental door in the middle of the coach. Aside from some earlier models, pretty much all of the higher end Setra's have such door as part of their design.

bk · 30-05-2012 12:07pm

devnull wrote: »

The Dublin coach vehicles you refer to have a Continental door in the middle of the coach. Aside from some earlier models, pretty much all of the higher end Setra's have such door as part of their design.

Well that is pretty stupid so!! 4 less seats, with no benefit of a toilet.

I assume they must have gotten a bargain deal on these.

SandyfordGuy · 30-05-2012 1:53pm

I'm in two minds about those Bus Eireann Expressway adverts. I know it's a brand name that they use but I think at the same time it is misleading the public as it gives impressions that such routes are express when in a majority of cases they are not and are far slower than real express routes. I don't think anyone will be able to complain about this and make them change as there is not enough advertising regulation, but similar cases have been known to be taken against similar terms elsewhere on the basis that they were misleading customers.

On the other hand it is a great marketing strategy they are pursuing and I think it will work very well considering the pressure they are coming under from the private operators who are operating true express services, they are simply trying to make the best of what they have and get the message out there even if they don't have all the plus points some of the others have, their marketing appears to be targeted and very effective.

JohnMearsheimer · 30-05-2012 2:19pm

I took the Aircoach on Monday from Cork to Dublin, it only took 2h 45mins, very impressed with it. I wish they had this regular express service a few years ago when I was working in Dublin. I was flying up and down between Cork and Dublin at the weekends with Ryanair at the time because it was actually much cheaper than the train if I booked the flight well in advance and I was guaranteed a seat.

joegriffinjnr · 01-06-2012 8:37pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57250583@N02/7313093360/in/photostream

SandyfordGuy · 05-06-2012 2:49pm

Just seen on the Aircoach website there are further changes from the 9th June 2012.

All Dublin to Cork Direct services will now call at the Aircoach stands at arrivals at both terminal one and terminal two and no longer will depart from the coach park. Means that there is now no need to do that annoying walk from terminal one to the coach park or the even longer walk from terminal two which has got to be a bonus, especially in rainy weather.

It also seems that the three services each day in each direction that go through the Towns and villages on the way will be withdrawn. It's hardly surprising when you consider when I've seen them they seem to have only half a dozen people at most on and they must be making a quite big loss on them.

jacko1 · 05-06-2012 2:53pm

took it last week and not impressed compared with the train.

The 7.30 train has me in Dublin for 10 and the 5pm has me back in cork at 7.30pm - all fo €39.98 - the newly installed wi fi on the trains is also great

Back on the train next week

SandyfordGuy · 05-06-2012 2:57pm

What was wrong with the bus?

Sorry I tend not to take posts at face value unless they are constructive due to the huge number of vested interests on this board.

jacko1 · 05-06-2012 3:02pm

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

What was wrong with the bus?

Sorry I tend not to take posts at face value unless they are constructive due to the huge number of vested interests on this board.

felt a lot more constricted than on a train (leg room, walking around etc) - I'm 6'2"

I also felt the coach was going too fast at times

SandyfordGuy · 05-06-2012 3:08pm

jacko1 wrote: »

I also felt the coach was going too fast at times

Thanks for repeating what you said before you even went on the service when it was first announced in relation to the speed. Isn't it just funny you should come out with such statement again.

Don't worry, many of us are used to the Irish Rail fanboys on here.

devnull · 05-06-2012 3:10pm

I personally found there was more legroom on the 2008/9 Aircoach vehicles than the train, and any Bus Eireann vehicle that I've been on personally.

My problem with Aircoach is the poor marketing and website and the lack of toilets is a little problem too.

jacko1 · 05-06-2012 3:13pm

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Thanks for repeating what you said before you even went on the service when it was first announced in relation to the speed. Isn't it just funny you should come out with such statement again.

Don't worry, many of us are used to the Irish Rail fanboys on here.

for what its worth the €22 was the attraction but the speed has to be a consideration given the time to be made up from the red cow onwards given the traffic out of dublin - was concerned about it before and last week confirmed it

SandyfordGuy · 05-06-2012 3:19pm

Nah, sorry mate, your posting of Irish Rail discount codes on other threads, especially highlighting Dublin to Cork routes suggest you have some kind of interest in this more than a general consumer.

I'll leave everyone else to make up their own minds but I'm sick of seeing shills and trolls on either side, that only ever seems to happen on Aircoach threads. I'm all for people making valid points and constructive criticism but at times on here we clearly have people pushing hidden agendas.

devnull · 05-06-2012 3:26pm

Considering BE were doing non stop reliefs from Dublin to Cork with a 15 minute break in Urlingford in 3hrs 15 mins, pretty much the same as Aircoach are doing now that would presumably mean they are speeding as well?

I really think such sniping on this thread is pointless and again getting off topic and de-railing the thread with personal arguments between members.

parsi · 05-06-2012 3:55pm

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

What was wrong with the bus?

Sorry I tend not to take posts at face value unless they are constructive due to the huge number of vested interests on this board.

An independent observer would suggest that you had such a vested interest .

Don't know about the towns closer to Dublin but there did seem to be significant traffic taken on in Cashel ( students ) and this has been mentioned a few times in this thread.

I suppose this means that the intermediate market has been handed back to BE.

devnull · 05-06-2012 4:13pm

Parsi - this board has not been short on anti-aircoach shills over the past couple of years a lot of it was ongoing for many months so I can understand why some people are mindful of anti-aircoach posts. I've moaned a lot about them the last few months but much of it has been constructive criticism,

A lot of the criticism about said company on this board over the last couple of years has been very non constructive and based on what appears to be grudges against the company including downright xenophobia and things which have no basis on reality or factual grounding.

If you search for posts by dalkey resident and dub commuter you will see what I mean so I'm not surprised people are a little suspicious.

SandyfordGuy · 05-06-2012 4:19pm

Sorry if you feel that way. Just saying it how I see it, I am simply an interested observer of Irish Transport and am interested in the industry., I have no connection to any company other than using their services regularly.

Sorry for trying to be helpful by posting useful information.

dowlingm · 07-06-2012 1:36pm

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Just seen on the Aircoach website there are further changes from the 9th June 2012.

{snip}

It also seems that the three services each day in each direction that go through the Towns and villages on the way will be withdrawn. It's hardly surprising when you consider when I've seen them they seem to have only half a dozen people at most on and they must be making a quite big loss on them.

Withdrawal on 4 days notice is pretty poor though - and I don't say that as a slam at Aircoach, since I was critical of the messing around that accompanied the Limerick-Nenagh-Dublin rail service too. I think if you are NTA licensed then you should have to give decent (30 days?) notice of a timetable change. That the loads on the intermediate stops are poor since the Express introduction is unsurprising, since many may have found either their usual/preferred outbound or return cut, and thus the fact that the other sector survived is not enough reason to take the service. Presumably this also means that no Aircoach Dublin-Cork services are taking Social Welfare Pass.

Sponge Bob · 07-06-2012 2:02pm

I cannot remember what the Cork trains are like but as other train routes use the overhard on the arse 22000 railcars (and not 'trains' as such) I personally feel more comfortable on a bus than a train. The old Mark 3 carriages were far comfier than either a bus or a railcar.

No I have no connection with any transport operator
Yes I am over 6 foot tall.

dowlingm · 07-06-2012 2:06pm

Sponge Bob, the only trip I made in a Mark 4 I remember as being reasonably good (I'm 6'2"). Hopefully the continuing extension of the new 100mph rail south of Portlaoise has done something to improve the ride quality because the Spanish didn't realise what the Japanese learned years ago about cars - you need to have a section of badly maintained track handy to simulate Irish conditions!

devnull · 07-06-2012 2:15pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Withdrawal on 4 days notice is pretty poor though - and I don't say that as a slam at Aircoach, since I was critical of the messing around that accompanied the Limerick-Nenagh-Dublin rail service too. I think if you are NTA licensed then you should have to give decent (30 days?) notice of a timetable change. That the loads on the intermediate stops are poor since the Express introduction is unsurprising, since many may have found either their usual/preferred outbound or return cut, and thus the fact that the other sector survived is not enough reason to take the service. Presumably this also means that no Aircoach Dublin-Cork services are taking Social Welfare Pass.

I think there should have to be a seven day notice. This is the same notice that State companies have to give I believe so this would nicely tie things up nicely and mean nobody can moan about unfair regulations which discriminate against one or other section of the market. If you're going to increase it beyond seven days in my view you should do the same for state companies also.

The intermediate stops even before the express services came in, were picking up on average 8-10 people at peak times and normally around half a dozen off-peak at best. There is simply not enough money there to sustatin a service for anyone to be profitable. Once the express passengers have been stripped out of such bus it's hard to make a profit. There will always be demand for intermediate travel, but there is not enough of a market for an hourly service all day which Bus Eireann and Aircoach were providing combined.

The Social Welfare passes is the matter for the government. No new services can join the scheme therefore the new Citylink service that I posted about yesterday, and new services from other operators will not be covered either.

dowlingm · 08-06-2012 5:11pm

to be clear - when I said NTA licensed I meant the CIE companies too (since they have NTA agreements). The only excuse for schedule changes on less than a month's notice should be that a bridge fell down or something.

Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

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