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Grand National 2012

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    #452
    Mech1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭Mech1


    Mech1 wrote: »
    Well I got 1st / 3rd

    Whats my winnings?
    Mech1 wrote: »
    €5 ew on all below

    Black apalachi 40-1
    Neptune Collonges 33-1
    Seabass 9-1
    Shakalaka 10-1
    West end rocker 16-1




    total stake €50

    What you recon?


    Ha well done me :D Just collected €232.50:D


  • Options
    #453
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭Morgans


    The worst horse in the grand national is a well above average thoroughbred. Well above average. Its not an solid arguement. The 40 runner field being too big makes more sense.


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    #454
    the bolt
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭the bolt


    anybody know what won the last race at aintree?


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    #455
    Havermeyer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Havermeyer


    fits wrote: »
    I'm not saying the death of a good horse is worse at all.. its a welfare issue for both the good horses and the bad ones.

    There are horses allowed to run, who are unproven jumping, unproven over the distance, and they fall and run out and hamper horses who are able for the race.

    I'm not saying they should ban it but really dont see why they insist on a forty horse field! ITs carnage every year!

    I'd agree with this. I've been watching this race since I was in nappies, but it is carnage. Was it three horses last year, and two this year - with others injured.

    The size of the field is more of a problem than the size of the fences in my opinion.


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    #456
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    I'm angry and sad, sad for the horses but angry that we're going to have to put up with increased animal welfare/racing for change in the future.

    If there is a problem with the national (and there may be), change the national. But for gods sake leave the rest of this perfectly good sport well alone.

    It's such a pity that the only race the non-racing population watch each year has the most carnage. Gives an unbalanced and untrue reflection on the sport


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    #457
    argosy2006
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭argosy2006


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by argosy2006 viewpost.gif
    I have neptune collonges
    viking blond
    chicago grey
    planet of sound all ew


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Wow..did you put money on neptune then?

    Yea
    Had Neptune collonges, & Sunnyhill boy ew as well,


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    #458
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    fits wrote: »
    I'm not saying the death of a good horse is worse at all.. its a welfare issue for both the good horses and the bad ones.

    There are horses allowed to run, who are unproven jumping, unproven over the distance, and they fall and run out and hamper horses who are able for the race.

    I'm not saying they should ban it but really dont see why they insist on a forty horse field! ITs carnage every year!

    Some of this post is wrong.

    The lowest rated horse in the national was 132. To say this is a bad horse is incorrect, the horse in question has already won a good handicap chase this season. The fact is no bad horse will get into the national due to the high ratings needed.

    Also, every horse who gets an entry must be approved by a panel, jumping is a major part of their analysis. No horse in the field is an unproven jumper, while most of them are unproven over the distance seeing as it is the longest race in the UK and Ireland.


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    #459
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭Morgans


    I think that the safest changes would be to standardise the fences and maybe think about increase the distance to 4m6f/5m.


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    #460
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    the bolt wrote: »
    anybody know what won the last race at aintree?

    The New One, My Tent or Yours was second.


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    #461
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    I pity that poor lad who put €50,000 on a horse in the National. I can't remember who he backed but a bit mad when your horse could be brought down by another.


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    #462
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    I pity that poor lad who put €50,000 on a horse in the National. I can't remember who he backed but a bit mad when your horse could be brought down by another.

    I don't pity him. He obviously has money to burn, even the dimmest of people know that much of the national is down to luck. It was on Synchronized.


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    #463
    Juwwi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,244 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    I heard someone say recently that they should lower the fences and put some sort of a fixed brush type stuff on the top part of the fence to slow the horses down.

    It makes sense the horses wont know its not real at the top part and if they do hit it they are less likely to fall.

    Also agree with 40 being too many if they lowered it to 30 runners it would'nt take anything at all away from the race.


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    #464
    the bolt
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭the bolt


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    The New One, My Tent or Yours was second.
    thanks for that ,went for my tent or yours @5/1


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    #465
    prettyboy81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭prettyboy81


    €5 ew on the winner...happy days! Other 2 I backed in the race fell or was brought down Junior & Chicago Grey. My logic today was simple pick 3 grey horses....


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    #466
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Morgans wrote: »
    I think that the safest changes would be to standardise the fences and maybe think about increase the distance to 4m6f/5m.

    Do you think the increase in distance would slow the speed? I dunno, I think in a field of that size, the front runners are going to go as fast as they want regardless of a jockeys urgings.


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    #467
    Nulty
    Registered Users Posts: 7,838 ✭✭✭Nulty


    Synchronised got up and ran off sound from his fall at Bechers. He apparently fractured his leg 5 fences later when running loose.


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    #468
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,253 ✭✭✭✭fits


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    Some of this post is wrong.

    The lowest rated horse in the national was 132. To say this is a bad horse is incorrect, the horse in question has already won a good handicap chase this season. The fact is no bad horse will get into the national due to the high ratings needed.

    Also, every horse who gets an entry must be approved by a panel, jumping is a major part of their analysis. No horse in the field is an unproven jumper, while most of them are unproven over the distance seeing as it is the longest race in the UK and Ireland.

    Ok you have a point. Let me rephrase. There are many horses in the race who have a very poor chance of success and the race is not really the better for their being in it. I do love the underdog element and the fact that amateur jockeys can compete but you've got to balance that against the welfare issue.

    IT would be safer for all if the number were reduced.


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    #469
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,013 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Anyway, on a lighter note, I backed Chicago Grey, Rare Bob and State of play. State of play fell at the 4th bringing down both Chicago grey and Rare Bob :(


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    #470
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    fits wrote: »
    Ok you have a point. Let me rephrase. There are many horses in the race who have a very poor chance of success and the race is not really the better for their being in it. I do love the underdog element and the fact that amateur jockeys can compete but you've got to balance that against the welfare issue.

    IT would be safer for all if the number were reduced.

    I see what you mean, but it's a handicap race. The point of a handicap is that each horse is weighted to give them all an equal chance. At what point do we stop horses who we think have a poor chance of success? Is it determined by their odds?

    Sometimes odds are not a true representation of their chance, and their chance is subjective to many different people. In this case, Mon Mome would be a nearly unheard of horse.

    Though it would be safer with less numbers.


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    #471
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    Nulty wrote: »
    Yeah, we may feel worse when we hear a more famous horse dies but one horses death is not worse than any others in real terms. Someone owns, trains, rides and loves each horse that dies. I don't feel any worse for the Gold Cup winner than I do for According To Pete.

    Look back though the thread to find the article on According To Pete's connections. Watch his races and tell me Synchronised is more important than According To Pete. This isn't directed at anyone in particular and I'm not wound up about this - it's hard to sound the way you mean to in a forum.

    I agree very much with your last line there.

    I'm not suggesting for a second the Synchronised was 'more important' than According To Pete. Any horse being put down is a tragedy, it just has added poignancy when it's the reigning Gold Cup winner, I just feel he deserves better.

    I love to have a few bets (I often wish I didn't) but my primary interest in racing is because of the horses themselves, betting is very much secondary. I love a hero and Synchronised became one this year.

    I'm sure we can agree it's a sad day all round.


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    #472
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    I'm angry and sad, sad for the horses but angry that we're going to have to put up with increased animal welfare/racing for change in the future.

    If there is a problem with the national (and there may be), change the national. But for gods sake leave the rest of this perfectly good sport well alone.

    It's such a pity that the only race the non-racing population watch each year has the most carnage. Gives an unbalanced and untrue reflection on the sport

    I agree with this. All this 'completely ban horse racing' based on one race is ludicrous. But I think there are very few who could argue that something needs to be done about the Grand National. It's becoming increasingly uncomfortable to watch every year.


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    #473
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Do you think the increase in distance would slow the speed? I dunno, I think in a field of that size, the front runners are going to go as fast as they want regardless of a jockeys urgings.

    I think that it would take horses that are best suited to less than 3m from turning up. Planet of Sound and Shackalakaboomboom today were going at it from a long long way out today. I think it would encourage jockeys to conserve energy early, even front runners.

    RSCPA equine consultancy on RUK now. Made a lot of sense. I dont mind the arguments as long as they are sensible.


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    #474
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    Anyway, on a lighter note, I backed Chicago Grey, Rare Bob and State of play. State of play fell at the 4th bringing down both Chicago grey and Rare Bob :(


    Could you have got a tri-cast on that? :D


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    #475
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    I've come to accept the National for what it is at the end of the day. I don't have the allure or nostalgia that others do with it but I can still understand why people think it is an essential annual event of the industry.

    I do think there is a certain level of hypocrisy from racing fans who suggest it should be pulled, how can you support racing for 364 days of the year but not on one particular day? Granted it is a more exerting contest but the concept doesn't change, these animals put their lives on the line for our enjoyment everytime they are tacked up be it at the local gallops or in the Grand National.


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    #476
    Slattsy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    Time to un-follow this thread before the rest of the hippies come out of their tents to throw in their 2 cents like they do every year !


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    #477
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    Slattsy wrote: »
    Time to un-follow this thread before the rest of the hippies come out of their tents to throw in their 2 cents like they do every year !

    Please don't, your valuable input will be dearly missed.


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    #478
    Havermeyer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Havermeyer


    Slattsy wrote: »
    Time to un-follow this thread before the rest of the hippies come out of their tents to throw in their 2 cents like they do every year !

    In fairness, I haven't read any post so far that has been indicative of what would be considered a 'hippy' response.

    It's all been fairly reasoned up to this point.


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    #479
    seoirsem
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭seoirsem


    The problem with the National fences now, IMO, is that they dont command the respect they used to. More horses are dying at the 'normal' fences than at likes of Beechers.
    Take the Chair for example. A monster of a fence, you'ld assume that you'd have more fatalities at that fence than any other and the reverse is probably happening.


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    #480
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Watching RSPCA guy on SKY News now.

    Just wondering how it could be made safer. Maybe divide the field in two, 20 horses in either half, would mean less horses falling over each other.

    Whenever you have a marathon race with a lot of fences, greatly increases the chances of fatalities.

    Some horses shouldn't be allowed run though. Is a Gold Cup runner really suited to a Grand National Course over 4m4f?

    No blame on McCoy though, he wasn't even on the horse at the time.

    In any case, at any meet week in week out, there are horse fatalities, it's an unfortunate part of the sport. The difference here is the whole of the UK and Ireland were watching this race.


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    #481
    hucklebuck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭hucklebuck


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    I heard Claire Balding say that he may not make it after his injury scare, unless they said it after cos I turned it off then. Nothing on the RP

    She is a dozy tart, she said Frankel is injured and may not run again and in the next sentence she said he won't run again.

    DELIGHTED I don't have to listen to Claire Balding, Rishie (?), John Parrot and the fat fella that says "John" in EVERY sentence.


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