UFO Phenomenon - Any real scientific material

yosemite_sam · 17-10-2012 12:59am

Seen something this evening whilst driving in Mayo, a very bright metallic object in a clear blue sky for around 30 seconds at 17:40. It was definitely no plane

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 10:38am

yosemite_sam wrote: »

It was definitely no plane

What makes you say that?

yosemite_sam · 17-10-2012 11:15am

EnterNow wrote: »

What makes you say that?

It vanished into thin air, planes do not tend to do that.

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 12:26pm

yosemite_sam wrote: »

It vanished into thin air, planes do not tend to do that.

Not any ones your aware of anyway

Also, I assume your getting at this sighting was of something other worldly? If it could make itself invisible, why would it not stay invisible & that way wouldn't risk being seen?

Was there any cloud coverage that evening? Was it dark out? Was it travelling fast?

gillad · 17-10-2012 1:35pm

EnterNow wrote: »

If it could make itself invisible, why would it not stay invisible & that way wouldn't risk being seen?

Why are you asking Yosemite this question?????
Do you think he knows everything about it now, because he saw it

The other questions you asked are proper questions.

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 1:38pm

gillad wrote: »

The other questions you asked are proper questions.

Oh thank you kind sir for sanctioning my other questions, how gracious of you.

I asked because it doesn't make sense that a craft would make itself visible, when it could simply become invisible does it.

gillad · 17-10-2012 2:07pm

I agree.It doesnt make sense,unidentified flying objects dont make sense

gbee · 17-10-2012 2:15pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I asked because it doesn't make sense that a craft would make itself visible, when it could simply become invisible does it.

Why not? It might need to be at a certain speed or height to make invisibility.

They probably have multiple propulsion systems like a submarine using diesel engines on the surface where it can be seen and electric engines from batteries allows it to dive and become invisible.

gillad · 17-10-2012 2:38pm

This doesnt make sense...These respected men witnessed ufos,why would they lie and risk ridicule?

“Declassified U.S. government documents and the testimony of more than 120 former or retired military personnel have established, beyond doubt, the reality of ongoing UFO incursions at American nuclear weapons sites.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/25/retired-military-personnel-to-confirm-ufo-incursions-at-american-nuclear-weapons-sites/

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 2:50pm

gillad wrote: »

I agree.It doesnt make sense,unidentified flying objects dont make sense

Yeah.

gbee wrote: »

Why not? It might need to be at a certain speed or height to make invisibility.

They probably have multiple propulsion systems like a submarine using diesel engines on the surface where it can be seen and electric engines from batteries allows it to dive and become invisible.

Maybe true, for sure. There could be certain variables that make different things possible or not when it comes to these things.

But the only description we have so far is:

A bright metallic object, that for sure wasn't a plane, because it disappeared. To be even begin to build a theory, I think much much more information is needed.

Was it moving?
Was direction was it moving?
Did it change direction?
If it was so bright, how could you tell it was metallic?
Assuming it was dusk/getting dark {evening}, how could you tell it was metallic?
Did it move at a constant speed?
Was there a sound to it?

gillad wrote: »

This doesnt make sense...These respected men witnessed ufos,why would they lie and risk ridicule?

“Declassified U.S. government documents and the testimony of more than 120 former or retired military personnel have established, beyond doubt, the reality of ongoing UFO incursions at American nuclear weapons sites.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/25/retired-military-personnel-to-confirm-ufo-incursions-at-american-nuclear-weapons-sites/

Yep & the UK declassified documents gave equally weird accounts of high ranking officials etc who reported such things. The one thing about UFO accounts that I find really weird, is such professionals are willing to come out & admit to seeing them.

Maybe though, their security clearance isn't high enough to know about top secret & above man made craft that are capable of such maneuvers. We may never know

gillad · 17-10-2012 3:10pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Maybe though, their security clearance isn't high enough to know about top secret & above man made craft that are capable of such maneuvers. We may never know

If they were top secret craft,it doesnt make sense that they would show it to and scare other lower security people..

"We`v got a top secret flying craft,lets go out and scare some of the lads"........maybe,i would:)

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 3:38pm

gillad wrote: »

If they were top secret craft,it doesnt make sense that they would show it to and scare other lower security people..

"We`v got a top secret flying craft,lets go out and scare some of the lads"........maybe,i would:)

Your assuming they all work for the same government

They could be field tests from rival nations etc

It could be manmade, it could be reverse engineered alien tech, or it could be just aliens too. I tend to look at the simplest & most likely option

kylith · 17-10-2012 3:52pm

yosemite_sam wrote: »

It vanished into thin air, planes do not tend to do that.

I would imagine that it turned so the sun was no longer reflecting on it.

gillad · 17-10-2012 4:25pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Your assuming they all work for the same government They could be field tests from rival nations etc

It could be manmade, it could be reverse engineered alien tech, or it could be just aliens too. I tend to look at the simplest & most likely option

If they were top secret craft from any nation,these were seen in the 1960`s.....surely now these craft and technology would be well know now....If america or any other nation had these craft,they would have been used in Korea,veitnam,afganistan,iran,iraq and saved a lot of time and money .

Im not saying its aliens either but there is something going on....too many people and too many strange stories.

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 4:47pm

gillad wrote: »

If they were top secret craft from any nation,these were seen in the 1960`s.....surely now these craft and technology would be well know now....

Not if they're classified

If america or any other nation had these craft,they would have been used in Korea,veitnam,afganistan,iran,iraq and saved a lot of time and money .

How do you know they wern't?

Im not saying its aliens either but there is something going on....too many people and too many strange stories.

Agreed, there's a lot of stuff you could read about that would make you think twice about it if you were skeptical of the whole thing

gillad · 17-10-2012 4:52pm

EnterNow wrote: »

How do you know they wern't?

Im guessing....just like everybody who comments on ufo`s:)

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 5:11pm

gillad wrote: »

Im guessing....just like everybody who comments on ufo`s:)

Yep, hard to argue that. There's no hard factual evidence at all. The best evidence to me, are the credentials of those who have seen or encountered them. Highly skilled professional pilots for example, very weird

gillad · 17-10-2012 5:31pm

From my sources(Dont ask because its even stranger than ufo`s)sometime between now and 2017 there will be proof of life outside this planet and around 2030 there will be contact with Aliens(spirits just like us, but more evolved).....you heard it here first:D

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 6:51pm

gillad wrote: »

From my sources(Dont ask because its even stranger than ufo`s)sometime between now and 2017 there will be proof of life outside this planet and around 2030 there will be contact with Aliens(spirits just like us, but more evolved).....you heard it here first:D

:pac:...:D...:p...:)...:o...:(...:confused:...

gbee · 18-10-2012 8:27am

EnterNow wrote: »

TYhe best evidence to me, are the credentials of those who have seen or encountered them. Highly skilled professional pilots for example, very weird

IMO, the best evidence is that the RAF made a squadron of Foo Fighters specifically to engage what they believed to be German secret weapons.

That was during WWII with precious little resources and that's how seriously they took the UFO sightings from their pilots.

gillad · 18-10-2012 12:39pm

There is also the possibility that we are seeing glimpes of a parallel universe where these craft exist in our world(2030:D)......In Quantum Physics,Electrons pop in and out of existence all the time.Where do they go when they disappear?........maybe into other universes.....The probability is that there is life in this universe(never mind all the parallel universes) and it could easily be 10 billion years ahead of us and thats a LOT!!!......we are possibly toddlers in this universe....teenagers would be a better comparison because we`r sure we know it all, but really we know very little.

gillad · 18-10-2012 4:59pm

gbee wrote: »

IMO, the best evidence is that the RAF made a squadron of Foo Fighters specifically to engage what they believed to be German secret weapons.

That was during WWII with precious little resources and that's how seriously they took the UFO sightings from their pilots.

I would think that any country with a decent airforce has encountered ufo`s and probably investigated but its hard to investigate something that can outmaneuver you and disappear.I think all pilots are told that these encounters are classified and it takes years for these stories to come out.When you hear stories about ufo encounters 50/60 years ago,its kind of watered down by time and not as shocking.

When Richard Branson gets Virgin Galactic flying,we will have civilians in space and we may have encounters that wont be classified.

Its Behind You! · 18-10-2012 9:06pm

Interesting thread and (recent) chat...

Now, Patrick Moore eh! watching the skies for nearly 80 years, (I think he's 90 now, or near enough) and not a shred of evidence has he yet to witness to confirm, or even suggest, that life beyond earth exists.

And so I ask myself, how come World War 2 Pilots and the likes witnessed possible UFO's, while Mr Moore and his mates looking through all those massive telescopes night after night for decades and seen nothing? And then regularly a random bloke in a car witnesses a UFO?

(The closest thing that Patrick Moore ever witnessed to intrigue him for a few seconds was pollen in front of his lens).

That would suggest to me the UFO's that those pilots witnessed were of earthly origin.

However I can also remember Mr Moore being asked a question, (perhaps on his 80th birthday), asking did he believe in the existence of life elswehere in the planet, to which he replied "almost certainly".

(I'm not sure if he was tongue in cheek...he is a bit of a wag:D).

For me its back to basics. If intelligent life exists on earth, then surely there's a possibility that it also exists elsewhere and has created flying machines?

But, I too have yet to see a piece of seriously credible evidence to confirm (even the likelyhood) that UFO's exist.

To me, there is way more unconfirmed possible evidence to suggest that spirit life exists in another dimension, wavelength or whatever. But still we, or rather "I" have no real evidence to confirm that spirit life does exist. (And how many people looking for how many decades/centuries?)

As far as life after death is concerned, all we have as potential evidence are earthly Mediums. Some intriguing, and many, many more, probably money making charlatans.

So rock bottom for me.

Question: Who specifically made the sun the moon and the stars? Answer: I haven't got a clue, but perhaps a "Higher Power".

Question: Are you convinced of the existence of a "Higher Power"? Answer: No.

So does any proof exist for UFO's or the Paranormal or a Spirit world? (I haven't seen any yet).

Has anyone?

gillad · 18-10-2012 11:47pm

Its Behind You! wrote: »

And so I ask myself, how come World War 2 Pilots and the likes witnessed possible UFO's, while Mr Moore and his mates looking through all those massive telescopes night after night for decades and seen nothing? And then regularly a random bloke in a car witnesses a UFO?

You have a different field of view when you look through a telescope,They are looking beyond our atmosphere and if anything does cross in front of the lens its only a flash for a second and it would be impossible to locate and follow.If you are asking why havent they seen any craft further out.....space is HUGE and mostly dark so any craft would have to be fairly big and bright to spot..

There is proof of ufo`s and the spiritual world(which are connected) but not enough to satisfy everyones definition of the proof they need....most of us need to see for ourselves and there is nothing wrong with that either....if you stay curious and look deeper you will understand more and more everyday......the problem is the of conditioning of our human minds into thinking the way we do.....If you change your way of thought,your reality will change too(slowly because you need a time lag) and Quantum physics prooves this too when it looks at the role of the observer(the ghost in the machine)and the observer is your real self/spirit,not flesh and bones.
Here is a link if you want an interesting starting point to look deeper.
http://www.amitgoswami.org/

Its Behind You! · 19-10-2012 5:20pm

@Gillad. Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

yosemite_sam · 22-10-2012 11:29am

EnterNow wrote: »

Not any ones your aware of anyway

Also, I assume your getting at this sighting was of something other worldly? If it could make itself invisible, why would it not stay invisible & that way wouldn't risk being seen?

Was there any cloud coverage that evening? Was it dark out? Was it travelling fast?

Clear blue sky and it was stationary.

yosemite_sam · 22-10-2012 11:33am

kylith wrote: »

I would imagine that it turned so the sun was no longer reflecting on it.

You could be right

Rob Humanoid · 06-04-2013 12:08pm

It's really tough to quantify something that in seen in the sky... Pilots often make mistakes, and you'd think they'd have a much better understanding than the average person.

tbh, I don't agree with the OP...I've yet to see anything that I would consider proof of God, UFOs or the spiritual world. If I ever do I'll happily retract my statement.

One thing I find very strange about many people who claim to see UFOs or other preternatural phenomena is that they immediately jump to a supernatural conclusion instead of using 'Occam's Razor'. Which should always be the first port of call. Just because you can't explain it at that time, location or personal view point.

A really good example of this is the 'Phoenix lights incident'. Virtually everyone swore it was a massive triangular craft including Police officers. In fact, a couple of them even tried to follow it. A string of military flares was the true explanation, and that's been very well documented imo (just take a look at the evidence). But yet there are still a few hardcore people who think it's a conspiracy/cover up. You can't really talk to these people...

I think the bottom line is that people really need and want to believe... I get it, I was a believer in my younger days. But I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of tangible proof. Not too mention there's a number of charlatans out there too. Those books sell like hot cakes, and they get well paid at conventions for 'lectures'. Of course, I'm not saying everyone is jumping on that band wagon. But for me anyway, the first question I ask, 'are these guys selling anything?'.

Of course, I can't (or we) disprove many of the claims that are maid, but not being able to explain something that cannot be tested doesn't mean it actually exists. So, if there's ever been any really good evidence why has it not been tested and peer reviewed? And I'm not taking about 'on the fringe scientists' here.

I'm sure alien life exists out there somewhere, but I doubt they have ever been to our tiny infinitesimal planet.

Just my thoughts...

[Deleted User] · 11-04-2013 7:29pm

Rob Humanoid wrote: »

tbh, I don't agree with the OP...I've yet to see anything that I would consider proof of God, UFOs or the spiritual world. If I ever do I'll happily retract my statement.

Thats cool , you have not seen stringent proof that any of this exists.

Rob Humanoid wrote: »

A really good example of this is the 'Phoenix lights incident'. Virtually everyone swore it was a massive triangular craft including Police officers. In fact, a couple of them even tried to follow it. A string of military flares was the true explanation, and that's been very well documented imo (just take a look at the evidence). But yet there are still a few hardcore people who think it's a conspiracy/cover up. You can't really talk to these people....

Now adhering to these stringent rules of god, UFO's and the spiritual world. I bet you cant absolutely prove that a string of military flares was the true explanation.

If you then present the documention written up by the military saying they what was seen was military flares . I will present you with 2 people from the US military under oath stating that aliens are real and that they have seen UFO's.

Whats my personal opinion ? I dont know what the phoenix lights are, they could be flares, they could be a craft. Hell they could be a top secret craft which for me is quite plausible. Look at the F-117A Nighthawk . Its being used in wars now. Yet built in 1978. Rumors persist it was around before that year. That was 35 years ago !

Rob Humanoid · 11-04-2013 10:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats cool , you have not seen stringent proof that any of this exists.
Now adhering to these stringent rules of god, UFO's and the spiritual world. I bet you cant absolutely prove that a string of military flares was the true explanation.

I take you point, but I think the evidence is far more plausible for flares than not. For one, the craft would have been absolutely huge... Thus putting it far beyond the realms of secret aircraft (for it's sheer size and behavior).

Also, it's been pretty consistent with the behavior, and life expectancy of military flares. Eyewitness accounts are of course fallible and highly inconsistent at the best of times.

People often extrapolate odd conclusions when they are faced with something that they can't explain.

Plus, they way they appear to vanish (behind the mountain rage) also is a good indicator of position.

That said, I personally cannot provide proof that it wasn't a huge triangular UFO, but there's been some pretty good scientific research which indicates it was just military flares. I think the Phoenix lights is one UFO case that is pretty conclusive of it being of terrestrial origin.

However, this is kinda' moot in a way, and I mean no disrespect here, but it's should be down to the people making the claim to prove it in the first place. Just because I (or we) can't prove that unicorns don't exist that doesn't mean that they actually do.

I think people need to work from a 'null hypotheses' in the first place as opposed to instantly jumping on the Alien/spiritual band wagon.

I still find it an interesting subject, but Brian Dunning puts it better than I ever could:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4041

UFO Phenomenon - Any real scientific material

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