Transport Operators want peak-time Free Travel restricted

Jamie2k9 · 31-08-2015 2:33pm #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/peak-time-restrictions-sought-on-free-travel-scheme-1.2334418

State transport providers have privately sought the introduction of rush-hour travel restrictions for holders of free travel passes as part of a review of the scheme.

A Government working group is reviewing the future of the free scheme, which allows up to 1.2 million people – or 25 per cent of the population – to travel for free on public and some private transport.

Despite rising passenger numbers, funding of €77 million for the scheme has been frozen at the same level for the past five years.

About time they demanded it....suspect it will won't happen short term but more funding will be allocated coming up to the election...

Gatling · 31-08-2015 2:39pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/peak-time-restrictions-sought-on-free-travel-scheme-1.2334418

About time they demanded it....suspect it will won't happen short term but more funding will be allocated coming up to the election...

"Sources familiar with the review of the scheme say some State transport providers support a reintroduction of restrictions which would allow them to raise additional revenue."

"“Having fully protected the free travel scheme during difficult budgets, and now that there is room for investment in services generally, the free travel scheme will be protected and not be undermined in any way,” the spokesman said."

Won't happen going by the two paragraphs I posted from the article and can't see a restriction from the 60's or 70's been reimposed at all

Jamie2k9 · 31-08-2015 2:45pm

Gatling wrote: »

"Sources familiar with the review of the scheme say some State transport providers support a reintroduction of restrictions which would allow them to raise additional revenue."

"“Having fully protected the free travel scheme during difficult budgets, and now that there is room for investment in services generally, the free travel scheme will be protected and not be undermined in any way,” the spokesman said."

Won't happen going by the two paragraphs I posted from the article and can't see a restriction from the 60's or 70's been reimposed at all

Yes but more funding will be given and I expect that will do them. This is the first time operators have spoken up about it well CIE ones any way.

Gatling · 31-08-2015 3:07pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

This is the first time operators have spoken up about it well CIE ones any way.

They have been saying it for the last 4+ years .
Most of the other operators are only accepting ftps recently compared to cie /ir

Peppa Pig · 31-08-2015 3:22pm

How does a private operator get paid for someone using the ftp? Is it an annual payment or per journey?

hmmm · 31-08-2015 4:18pm

1.2 million people have "free" travel. It's unreal.

coylemj · 31-08-2015 4:55pm

One thing the politicians know for sure - give the older people something and you take it back at your peril. When Charlie McCreevey was Minister for Finance and running out of ideas about how to spend the budget surplus, he announced that everyone over 70 could have a medical card. A few years later after the crash there was uproar when the Govt. said they would reintroduce a means test for it. They have since gone half way and given them free doctor visit cards.

Voter turnout among the older population is very high, they have long memories and are not to be messed with.

L1011 · 31-08-2015 5:22pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

How does a private operator get paid for someone using the ftp? Is it an annual payment or per journey?

Annual payment. I suspect with the smartcards that could change - if they find some services being used rarely anyway

Fred Swanson · 31-08-2015 5:58pm

This post has been deleted.

Infini · 01-09-2015 10:21am

To be honest its not the Old People that should be restricted they're all legitimate of course its the REST (ie. Junkies, Unemployed, Supposedlydisabledbutnotactuallydisabled) that need to be restricted. Its the latter group that in recent years that has exploded in terms of pass numbers and at this point you cant be suprised that they'd want some restrictions imposed expecially since it was originally restricted in the 1st place and was done away with via political interference.

punisher5112 · 01-09-2015 10:38am

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest its not the Old People that should be restricted they're all legitimate of course its the REST (ie. Junkies, Unemployed, Supposedlydisabledbutnotactuallydisabled) that need to be restricted. Its the latter group that in recent years that has exploded in terms of pass numbers and at this point you cant be suprised that they'd want some restrictions imposed expecially since it was originally restricted in the 1st place and was done away with via political interference.

I thought with the new passes things would get a bit better but what needs to happen is actuall proper checks such as revenue/social welfare actually going out and checking buses and trains to weed out the genuine from the ones that are working but still holding passes.

I come across many and have found a lot of older people using the spouse pass to bring along a mate.

This is only a recent thing and also happening with new pass as they seem to think the 2 on paper pass means ah sure I can bring anyone with me.

It would be a very good idea for restriction on non pensioners but will anyone in our government have the back bone to actually implement something that would make sense.

The problem I can see coming up is oh the poor addicts need the pass to get in to get their free methadone and then proceed to wander around the city screaming, shouting, pi##Ing, sh##Ing and fighting. Its a lot like the walking dead. oh and shooting up anywhere they like and also openly dealing as I see numerous times a day.

I have to deal with them every day and the worst is especially being a passenger on train or bus and then having to put up with all their crap while they go home or whatever.

Carawaystick · 01-09-2015 11:25am

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have to deal with them every day and the worst is especially being a passenger on train or bus and then having to put up with all their crap while they go home or whatever.

So you'ld have no problem with a methadone/treatment centre setting up beside where you live, to reduce the need for patients to travel?

cdebru · 01-09-2015 11:57am

Carawaystick wrote: »

So you'ld have no problem with a methadone/treatment centre setting up beside where you live, to reduce the need for patients to travel?

So they only use it to travel to and from the methadone clinic ?

punisher5112 · 01-09-2015 12:04pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

So you'ld have no problem with a methadone/treatment centre setting up beside where you live, to reduce the need for patients to travel?

What does this post even mean.

Plenty of space and places there can be treatment centres where it would affect bvery few in such cases not have one in a built up or residential area.

Where in my post did I say anything of the sort to get your reply.

Do you work with them or travel with them?//

end of the road · 01-09-2015 2:56pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I thought with the new passes things would get a bit better but what needs to happen is actuall proper checks such as revenue/social welfare actually going out and checking buses and trains to weed out the genuine from the ones that are working but still holding passes.

I come across many and have found a lot of older people using the spouse pass to bring along a mate.

This is only a recent thing and also happening with new pass as they seem to think the 2 on paper pass means ah sure I can bring anyone with me.

It would be a very good idea for restriction on non pensioners but will anyone in our government have the back bone to actually implement something that would make sense.

The problem I can see coming up is oh the poor addicts need the pass to get in to get their free methadone and then proceed to wander around the city screaming, shouting, pi##Ing, sh##Ing and fighting. Its a lot like the walking dead. oh and shooting up anywhere they like and also openly dealing as I see numerous times a day.

I have to deal with them every day and the worst is especially being a passenger on train or bus and then having to put up with all their crap while they go home or whatever.

the other side to the argument is that if you restrict the passes for these people rates of muggings may increase. i'm not suggesting that would or wouldn't be the case but i can see why some may believe it.

Wild Garlic · 01-09-2015 4:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

the other side to the argument is that if you restrict the passes for these people rates of muggings may increase. i'm not suggesting that would or wouldn't be the case but i can see why some may believe it.

If you are not suggesting it why bother even mentioning it? You are at best implying it.

Gatling · 01-09-2015 4:20pm

And people wonder they these threads never work out

end of the road · 01-09-2015 5:31pm

Wild Garlic wrote: »

If you are not suggesting it why bother even mentioning it? You are at best implying it.

what are you on about. i stated it was the other side of the argument, and that i wasn't sure i agreed with it. read it again, its very clear

devnull · 01-09-2015 6:11pm

What you're saying, is like saying "I know a lot of people think he is incompetent, but I couldn't possibly comment."

Wild Garlic · 01-09-2015 6:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

what are you on about. i stated it was the other side of the argument, and that i wasn't sure i agreed with it. read it again, its very clear

Ok I read it again and I stand by what I said.
Let me give you another example of what you did;
A lot of people(not me) have expressed an opinion that you are an idiot. I however am not saying that I agree or disagree with those sentiments. (Hypothetical of course)
Now if someone was to make a comment like that would you not think that someone was implying that you were an idiot, I know I would.

tabbey · 01-09-2015 10:08pm

Many of the people with free travel on medical / disability grounds, have a genuine mental illness or intellectual disability, and are decent people deserving of free travel. There is however, a very visible and audible minority who make life miserable for fare paying passengers. Many of these have their status because their doctors feel, rightly or wrongly, intimidated. These antisocial elements should be challenged by the authorities, and have their travel perks withdrawn for bad behaviour. I accept that some will then travel illegally, as these individuals expect society to provide all their needs and wants, but unless the system stands up to them, they will continue to make public transport less attractive, with negative effects to fare revenue.

newacc2015 · 02-09-2015 12:21am

I wish they would introduce time restrictions on DART, Dublin Bus and Luas services. Its ridiculous a FT holder can be on congested Luas for free, while everyone is trying to get it to work. Its not reasonable to expect them to use it between off peak hours.

I find it ridiculous how over priced student travel is here compared to Germany or France. A semester ticket in a German College city is about €60 for a term. Thats 3 weeks on Dublin Bus with student capping. I cant understand how all the BS language schools(the work Visa Factories) students are allowed to get Student tickets, when only official third level institutions in Germany are allowed them

dfx- · 02-09-2015 12:50am

Here might be a solution than the haranguing of disability and addicts and over 60s ---> it could be just funded instead of costly fleet replacements.

LXFlyer · 02-09-2015 6:57am

dfx- wrote: »

Here might be a solution than the haranguing of disability and addicts and over 60s ---> it could be just funded instead of costly fleet replacements.

Given that a 12 year life cycle is the industry norm for replacing bus fleets, I don't really see changing that as an option.

Having a modern fleet is something that is necessary to attract new customers.

Add to that the fact that it comes from a completely different budget.

dfx- · 02-09-2015 9:00am

Industry norm is something that can and has been extended when required. Could/should be done again. Is the 12 years figure an arbitrary value or what is it based on?

Either way, a modern fleet is very much secondary to the dignity of old people not being means tested or deciding whether someone is 'really disabled enough' to warrant free travel.

It seems we're happy to splash hundreds of millions of euro, government money, on new buses yet means test 60 year olds to board them.

Amalgam · 02-09-2015 9:08am

You'd get feedback/pressure from traders too, no doubt. Places like Dún Laoghaire, South County Dublin, would be worse than they are if free travel pass users were discouraged from going out and about.. I'm quite sure you'd see a ripple countrywide, in daytime spending.

charlietheminxx · 02-09-2015 9:10am

While I agree there are plenty of people who abuse free travel, I have a sister with intellectual disabilities who available of a free travel pass. She attends a prosper training centre 5 days a week and travels at a peak time (8.30am) to get there. Her training centre is her lifeline to the world, it provides her with the opportunity to learn new skills and is the focal point of her social life. Why should she be restricted from getting where she needs to go? The problem here is more about allocation of unnecessary free travel passes.

For what it's worth, while its a little bit off topic, I don't think there should be methadone clinics anywhere. Methadone should be dispensed by the addicted persons local GP. Takes centralisation out of it completely.

LXFlyer · 02-09-2015 9:12am

dfx- wrote: »

Industry norm is something that can and has been extended when required. Could/should be done again. Is the 12 years figure an arbitrary value or what is it based on?

Either way, a modern fleet is very much secondary to the dignity of old people not being means tested or deciding whether someone is 'really disabled enough' to warrant free travel.

It seems we're happy to splash hundreds of millions of euro, government money, on new buses yet means test 60 year olds to board them.

I would argue that is a completely different issue - as I said they come from different budgets.

Having a modern fleet is one key aspect of potentially getting people out of their cars.

As for means testing 60 year olds, I suspect no government would have the courage to do that as it would mean political suicide.

devnull · 02-09-2015 9:17am

charlietheminxx wrote: »

For what it's worth, while its a little bit off topic, I don't think there should be methadone clinics anywhere. Methadone should be dispensed by the addicted persons local GP. Takes centralisation out of it completely.

I know a GP who used to do exactly that.

The local community protested, about having a doctor who prescribes it in their neighbourhood and said it wshould be done in clinics, not in residential areas.

Can't win.

dfx- · 02-09-2015 9:31am

lxflyer wrote: »

I would argue that is a completely different issue - as I said they come from different budgets.

Having a modern fleet is one key aspect of potentially getting people out of their cars.

As for means testing 60 year olds, I suspect no government would have the courage to do that as it would mean political suicide.

Different (related) budgets, same source - Dept of Finance, no?

Department of Finance to give more money to Social Welfare, give less to Department of Transport. Declare increase funding of the scheme.

In the run-up to an election, it's remarkable how money is found..

LXFlyer · 02-09-2015 9:36am

dfx- wrote: »

Different (related) budgets, same source, no?

Department of Finance to give more money to Social Welfare, give less to Department of Transport. Declare increase funding of the scheme.

In the run-up to an election, it's remarkable how money is found..

That's not how government budgets work.

They are strictly by department and if one department loses money they may take years to get it back.

Something else in DSP would have to give here.

Really, I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.

A modern bus fleet is not a luxury, it's a necessity to entice people out of their cars.

Transport Operators want peak-time Free Travel restricted

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