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Cardinal Sean Brady aware of abuse in 1975

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Comments

  • #212
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    StudentDad wrote: »
    I'd go further than that. If an individual knew that a crime was being committed or that a crime would be committed. In cases of child abuse the individual who failed to report these crimes to the police should be charged as an accessory to the crimes as if they participated in them themselves.

    SD

    +1


  • #213
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    And if they did take responsibility and i didnt they could say exactly the same about me. It is the responsibility of everyone who hears about child abuse. FFS!!!!!

    Were you in a position above this hypothetical other person? you didn't say.


  • #214
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Min wrote: »
    This was explained that in an internal church inquiry that everyone is sworn to secrecy so the church can investigate a claim without information from one party reaching the other party and the story changing to suit the wrongdoer, if there is wrongdoing. It is also to stop and in this case Brendan Smyth finding out who was making the accusations against him.

    The church still has internal inquiries but that doesn't mean the civil authorities are excluded.
    And yet I read the comments of one of Smyths abuse victims in the paper the other day who said that less than a week after giving his secret statement to Brady, Smyth drove past him on the street, waved out the window to him putting his finger to his lips to say 'shussssh'.


  • #215
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Min wrote: »
    You talk about excuses while making presumptions.

    The fact remains that the bishop and his child protection team to this day deals with sexual abuse allegations, and this is what the Cloyne report said about church standards in this area -

    The Commission acknowledges that the standards which were adopted by the Church are high standards which, if fully implemented, would afford proper protection to children. The standards set by the State are less precise and more difficult to implement.

    It does not matter one jot if something was difficult to implement by the state.
    That WAS NOT Bradys decision to adjudicate upon - are you now espousing that too is part of the miserable excuse why he was a coward and didn't do anything?

    As for the the later Commission - the Church's standards were NOT implemented at the time. What piss-poor ones they even had!

    The fact is:

    1. Brady knew the law was been broken severely - for a long time - and still did nothing even as he rose in rank HIGHER!
    2. He did nothing prior to waiting for his then boss to do something.
    3. He did nothing after his boss decided to do nothing.
    4, He broke state laws on both sides of the border. SERIOUS state laws.

    The above is neither presumptions or excuse. Its fact.

    The man is a disgrace to the nation and anyone that continues to make sickening, stupid excuses for this lying, deciving coward, is blind and sad too!


  • #216
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Min wrote: »
    Were you in a position above this hypothetical other person? you didn't say.
    Work place and status is not relevant. Dont you get that?


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  • #217
    FergusODowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Let's hope he hangs on for as long as possible so!

    Nasty, and not funny. No, lets hope he resigns.

    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Seriously, though, contrast his behaviour with that of the RTE journalist Aoife Kavanagh, who has both resigned and apologised for one mistake she made.

    There were far more people involved at a higher level than just the middle ranking Aoife Kavanagh, she is the convienient scape goat for RTÉ's wealthy fat cats. RTÉ management are now involved in their own sordid cover up and blame game.


  • #218
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Biggins wrote: »
    As I have said elsewhere:

    Why the piece of crap that is Cardinal Brady, has not been fired, never mind resigned by now is simply unreal! This man according to victims, not only made them swear not to tell about the abuse they got from a scumbag in the same org’ as Brady – but he also knew of many others that was being abused FOR YEARS with a list that was given to him – and he said and/or did nothing! This allowed the other scumbag to continue for another 13 – yes – 13 years to brutalise more kids!

    …And what does the church in Rome say? “…he fulfilled his duty well” – Well if you ever needed a reason to see how bloody sick the Catholic Church of Rome is in stupidity and desired blindness when it suits them, there is yet another reason.

    The promoter of justice of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – the Vatican enforcers – added that he was sure Brady was still a fit person to lead the church in Ireland. Really? Are they for bloody real?

    Watched the Daly Show and Paddy Agnew of the Times, the Vatican correspondent basically said it's endemic there. They just don't get it.
    My God, Brady should not only have been fired – but by god and by law, his own ass should be hauled behind bars for letting a sick individual run rampage over more victims over many years! One excuse Brady gave was “The only people who had authority within the church to stop Brendan Smyth from having contact with children were his abbot in the monastery in Kilnacrott and his religious superiors in the Norbertine Order.“
    ….Well why didn’t you go to the Garda or someone else you useless gobschite when you saw that your boss did nothing and a very sick individual was still wrecking lives!



    My god, instead of making poor young scared kids shut-up and go away quietly in suffering for further years and decades (no further help given), Brady should have done a hell of a lot more to have exposed the scumbag that he helped instead (by his silence) to abuse many more over the following years because he said or did nothing – for over a possible decade and more!

    …And he is a fit person to run the whole church in Ireland? You have got to be fcuking kidding me!

    The man is not fit enough to lead a dog!

    While Smyth and others did the physical abuse, the Church mentally abused that child, and are still doing it to victims to this day. These are our moral leaders!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #219
    FergusODowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Min wrote: »
    You talk about excuses while making presumptions.

    The fact remains that the bishop and his child protection team to this day deals with sexual abuse allegations, and this is what the Cloyne report said about church standards in this area -

    The Commission acknowledges that the standards which were adopted by the Church are high standards which, if fully implemented, would afford proper protection to children. The standards set by the State are less precise and more difficult to implement.

    Brady has to go, the very very least he could have done was qietly warned the parents of the other boys he interviewed and gathered evidence from. He did not, and they went on to be further abused. Just because no state law from the 1970's covers such a moral failure does not mean that brady did nothing wrong. He has to go, I for one do not want to see such a man leading the Catholic Church in Ireland. It's time all Catholics marched on Armagh and demanded he leave.


  • #220
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    FergusODowd wrote: »
    Brady has to go, the very very least he could have done was qietly warned the parents of the other boys he interviewed and gathered evidence from. He did not, and they went on to be further abused. Just because no state law from the 1970's covers such a moral failure does not mean that brady did nothing wrong. He has to go, I for one do not want to see such a man leading the Catholic Church in Ireland. It's time all Catholics marched on Armagh and demanded he leave.

    If there is evidence that he failed to inform the police when he should have, he should be prosecuted as Mr. Brady, not as bishop or cardinal or whatever else Brady for obstruction of justice if nothing else.

    The fact that he is a Cardinal is irrelevant.

    SD


  • #221
    DonQuay1
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭DonQuay1


    Nothingbetter2d wrote: »
    can't we bash a different religion today? Bashing catholics has gotten soooooo boring now.


    Not allowed! Catholicism is still the main religion in this country. The majority one. You're allowed to bash it all you want. The minorities of anything have to be left alone in this PC World. (They sell computers!!).
    Imagine saying bad things (telling some hometruths) about Islam, maoism, travellers, unmarried mothers, smokers, cabbage or even public servants.

    You're only allowed to have an opinion on a majority - in 21st century PC Eire.


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  • #222
    Show Time
    Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    FergusODowd wrote: »
    Brady has to go, the very very least he could have done was qietly warned the parents of the other boys he interviewed and gathered evidence from. He did not, and they went on to be further abused. Just because no state law from the 1970's covers such a moral failure does not mean that brady did nothing wrong. He has to go, I for one do not want to see such a man leading the Catholic Church in Ireland. It's time all Catholics marched on Armagh and demanded he leave.
    Only the ex Hitler youth chap in charge in Rome can get rid of him and even than he has to speak to his "boss" upstairs to ok it.


  • #223
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Cardinal Brady is nothing like Brendan Smyth.

    Both are responsible for the abuse of kids so in that aspect their very much alike. Also both it seems were unaware that child abuse is wrong.


  • #224
    CageWager
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭CageWager


    DonQuay1 wrote: »
    Not allowed! Catholicism is still the main religion in this country. The majority one. You're allowed to bash it all you want. The minorities of anything have to be left alone in this PC World. (They sell computers!!).
    Imagine saying bad things (telling some hometruths) about Islam, maoism, travellers, unmarried mothers, smokers, cabbage or even public servants.

    You're only allowed to have an opinion on a majority - in 21st century PC Eire.

    Rest assured if any of the groups mentioned above were raping children in my country I would bash them with equal fervour


  • #225
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Nicely summed up by one commentator: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/advisers-backed-resignation-of-brady-to-save-churchs-image-3101001.html
    ""He (Brady) didn't fulfil the function of a human being, a man in the secular world or follow secular law. And he can't see that."

    And by their backing of Brady this week, it is now also evident that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the entire Vatican hierarchy as evidenced by the absence of condemnation, also can't see it.

    By stating this week that Brady has no case to answer for in the Church, the Vatican and it's spokesman monsignor Scicluna indicated that not to inform parents when there is corroborating evidence that their children are being sexually abused is correct behavior, because to do so would supercede church policy.

    Why such awful immoral absurdities from the Church, when inherently any of us would know now or would have known then that the right thing to do was inform the parents so they could protect their children?
    Because secrecy, self-preservation, and the image of divine authority on goodness and truth is the basis of power for the entire institution. And the sexual abuse and the cover up has now brought the real core of this institution into the open and in direct contrast to the true values of most ordinary decent people.

    It should now be obvious that morals, ethics, spirituality or how to live a good life alongside others is more readily found in our own hearts and minds, and not from the dictates of a religious institution; particularly one operating on OMERTA!


  • #226
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,057 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Maybe this has been asked and answered already, but what's to stop the Gardai from investigating this whole thing retrospectively and bringing charges against Brady for withholding information / perverting the course of justice?


  • #227
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Maybe this has been asked and answered already, but what's to stop the Gardai from investigating this whole thing retrospectively and bringing charges against Brady for withholding information / perverting the course of justice?

    Nothing. Which worries me.


  • #228
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Maybe this has been asked and answered already, but what's to stop the Gardai from investigating this whole thing retrospectively and bringing charges against Brady for withholding information / perverting the course of justice?

    The Northern Ireland police are looking into the matter - so they say!

    ...But lets be real, the law North and South will let the slimy sod slip away!

    If so, proving that its one rule for most and another rule for those they fear to take on!


  • #229
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    To be honest I don't know how he was able to sleep at night knowing what he did. He needs to go but he won't. The sad thing is that the level of abuse that went on was probably 10 times worse than what has come into the public domain so far.


  • #230
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,057 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Nothing. Which worries me.

    It's mad. I think that rather than demanding that he resign, which let's face it; will change absolutely nothing, people should be demanding that the Gardai pull their fingers out and actually do something about it. The clergy still seem to be untouchable despite all the bluster from politicians about how our laws supersede that of canon law.

    Bunch of useless cnuts :mad: The finger needs to be pointed at a whole lot more than Brady in all of this.


  • #231
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    lividduck quote deleted

    You cannot make such an accusation unless you can stand over it...this is what got RTE into trouble and cost them over €1.2 million.


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  • #232
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Min wrote: »
    You cannot make such an accusation unless you can stand over it...this is what got RTE into trouble and cost them over €1.2 million.

    If we were to go by what you posted, one could say lividduck is probably an abuser.
    To accuse someone without evidence makes the accuser an abuser if not true, in RTE the ones who had a mission to prey not the innocent priest who was falsely accused.
    Which accusation?
    That he is a scuzzball canon lawer who swore children to secrecy and enable Smyth to carry on abusing for decades?
    Or are you ok with that one?


  • #233
    FergusODowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Biggins wrote: »

    ...But lets be real, the law North and South will let the slimy sod slip away!

    Why should they ?

    If he has a case to answer then they should be forced to do their duty, otherwise they are just as bad.


  • #234
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    Which accusation?
    That he is a scuzzball canon lawer who swore children to secrecy and enable Smyth to carry on abusing for decades?
    Or are you ok with that one?

    I am not ok with the bishop not doing his duty to the children and their families.


  • #235
    celticcrash
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    Brady is a cold hearted monster. He is as guilty as the rest of the abusers.
    He made sure the others monsters got their way with raping little kids.
    He has no shame and no empithy with people who have suffered.
    He is the perfect repersentation of the church.


  • #236
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Min wrote: »
    I am not ok with the bishop not doing his duty to the children and their families.
    That we have in common.
    Im not ok with any professional or adults failinjg to report child abuse to the cops. When that individual belongs to and is head of a group who claim to be the moral guardians of the nation with a direct line to jesus:rolleyes:


  • #237
    FergusODowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Min wrote: »
    Fr Brady took the notes that were to be used against Brendan Smyth.

    Your statement is applicable to the bishop of that time.

    The same Fr Brady was able to go off, track down, and interview other boys that were associated with Smyth, yet did not even ask their parents for permission, never mind warning them to be careful, never mind quietly telling the parents that their children may have been at risk. These lads were then subsequently abused, while Brady got promoted for being a prideful sneaky servant of the incompetent prideful Bishop. You cannot defend the indefensible, please have some self respect and open your eyes.


  • #238
    FergusODowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    celticcrash wrote: »
    Brady is a cold hearted monster. He is as guilty as the rest of the abusers.
    He made sure the others monsters got their way with raping little kids.
    He has no shame and no empithy with people who have suffered.
    He is the perfect repersentation of the church.

    Brady has to go, but this is pure hate mongering rubbish, totally setting back the real case for fair and equal justice. This type of rubbish is part of the problem, not part of the solution. I wish to entirely disassociate myself from any such incitement to hatred. Those remarks are a disgrace.


  • #239
    celticcrash
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    FergusODowd wrote: »
    Brady has to go, but this is pure hate mongering rubbish, totally setting back the real case for fair and even justice. This type of rubbish is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    If you ask me the whole church has to go. For centuries the church has gone around murdering and raping people.
    You can bury your head in the sand all you want but the c church is one of the most vile evil institutions around.
    Read the history of the Roman Catholic Church it makes hitler look an alter boy.


  • #240
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    FergusODowd wrote: »
    The same Fr Brady was able to go off, track down, and interview other boys that were associated with Smyth, yet did not even ask their parents for permission, never mind warning them to be careful, never mind quietly telling the parents that their children may have been at risk. These lads were then subsequently abused, while Brady got promoted for being a prideful sneaky servant of the incompetent prideful Bishop. You cannot defend the indefensible, please have some self respect and open your eyes.

    They would have not been abused if the bishop had fulfilled his duties, the person who gathers the evidence is very often not the same person who meets out the punishment.
    Fr Brady took notes and gathered the evidence for the bishop, the problem really is Fr Brady put too much trust in the bishop to do the right thing. I think anyone would expect with this happening something was going to be done to stop what was happening, I believe the Cardinal when he says he was horrified to find that abuse happened after his role in taking notes and gaining evidence against Brendan Smyth.
    One would have expected the evidence was used by the bishop to take the case against Smyth further and for the abuse to have stopped.
    My problem wuith Cardinal Brady is he said the depth of the damage done by abuse was not fully understood.


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  • #241
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    celticcrash wrote: »
    If you ask me the whole church has to go. For centuries the church has gone around murdering and raping people.
    You can bury your head in the sand all you want but the c church is one of the most vile evil institutions around.
    Read the history of the Roman Catholic Church it makes hitler look an alter boy.


    You must have gotten a poor education in history.


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