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Kilkenny Football - ??

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    #62
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Martin567 wrote: »
    Why does the state of the Kilkenny football team generate far more articles than the state of hurling in the country?

    It doesn't. I have actually seen more articles about the lack of development in hurling competitiveness below KK and Tipp than I have about KK football.

    But, once again, hurling has nothing to do with this thread. We are discussing the state of affairs with the Kilkenny football team. It's not a general football topic, it is a specifc discussion on the future of KK in inter county football.


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    #63
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    If Kilkenny do not field a football team they should have half of their block grant taken away from them. The organisation is called the GAA and has 2 sports, and not 1.


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    #64
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    If Kilkenny do not field a football team they should have half of their block grant taken away from them. The organisation is called the GAA and has 2 sports, and not 1.

    Actually it has at least 4, but don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

    Kilkenny do field a team, this entire thread is about them getting beaten every week.

    Personally I think they would be better off withdrawing until they can get their house in order as it doesn't do them or their opponents any good to receive 30 point hammerings every week. But if funding was going to be taken away I guess they should send out a team of no hopers every week to prevent that from happening.

    I'm hearing a lot of recrimination on this thread and not a whole lot of potential solutions.

    Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve the situation other than fining the County board or bringing in Micko?


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    #65
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Actually it has at least 4, but don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

    Kilkenny do field a team, this entire thread is about them getting beaten every week.

    Personally I think they would be better off withdrawing until they can get their house in order as it doesn't do them or their opponents any good to receive 30 point hammerings every week. But if funding was going to be taken away I guess they should send out a team of no hopers every week to prevent that from happening.

    I'm hearing a lot of recrimination on this thread and not a whole lot of potential solutions.

    Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve the situation other than fining the County board or bringing in Micko?

    KK do not field a football team in the Liam McCarthy cup so I do not consider them to have a football team even though they have a team in the league. Plenty of solutions have been presented. Sanction is the best solution cause KK spend a disproportionate amount of money on hurling and as a result are the most successful team of the past decade. It is actually amazing Tipp have done so well in hurling considering they have a handy football team and split their money more evenly between the 2 codes.


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    #66
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Martin567 wrote: »
    I'm still beating my head off a brick wall here but as the author of the thread would you consider answering the question. Why does the state of the Kilkenny football team generate far more articles than the state of hurling in the country? Please don't give a glib and irrelevant response like ShamoBuc telling me to start my own thread about the state of hurling and then refuse to answer my question.

    I refer you to my earlier 'glib and irrelevant':rolleyes: response and of that of eroo's above, it really is pretty simple to understand! If you still cannot understand, read those posts again and then read the thread title again.


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    #67
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    KK do not field a football team in the Liam McCarthy cup so I do not consider them to have a football team even though they have a team in the league. Plenty of solutions have been presented. Sanction is the best solution cause KK spend a disproportionate amount of money on hurling and as a result are the most successful team of the past decade. It is actually amazing Tipp have done so well in hurling considering they have a handy football team and split their money more evenly between the 2 codes.

    If I may be a pendant , nobody fields a football team in the Liam McCarthy Cup.

    Secondly, I honestly don't believe it will do anybody any good for Kilkenny to field a team in the senior Leinster championship.

    Sanction is not really a solution to the problem.

    Also that is not the reason Kilkenny have been successful over the last decade any more than it is for Tyrone the other way around (who I notice you are not advocating fining).


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    #68
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    KK do not field a football team in the Liam McCarthy cup so I do not consider them to have a football team even though they have a team in the league. Plenty of solutions have been presented. Sanction is the best solution cause KK spend a disproportionate amount of money on hurling and as a result are the most successful team of the past decade. It is actually amazing Tipp have done so well in hurling considering they have a handy football team and split their money more evenly between the 2 codes.

    And Cork are All Ireland Football Champions and we do a bit of hurling aswell, how is this possible :confused::confused::confused:


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    #69
    Vorenus
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Vorenus


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    KK do not field a football team in the Liam McCarthy cup so I do not consider them to have a football team even though they have a team in the league. Plenty of solutions have been presented. Sanction is the best solution cause KK spend a disproportionate amount of money on hurling and as a result are the most successful team of the past decade. It is actually amazing Tipp have done so well in hurling considering they have a handy football team and split their money more evenly between the 2 codes.

    1. No one fields a football team in the Liam McCarthy Cup.

    2. It has taken more than money to turn KK into one of the best teams of the last decade.


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    #70
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    If Kilkenny do not field a football team they should have half of their block grant taken away from them. The organisation is called the GAA and has 2 sports, and not 1.

    Handball is another code of the GAA and we are always top players in the respect!


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    #71
    Martin567
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Martin567


    eroo wrote: »
    It doesn't. I have actually seen more articles about the lack of development in hurling competitiveness below KK and Tipp than I have about KK football.

    But, once again, hurling has nothing to do with this thread. We are discussing the state of affairs with the Kilkenny football team. It's not a general football topic, it is a specifc discussion on the future of KK in inter county football.

    In terms of articles, I meant comparing the lowest levels in each code, not just below the very top. I certainly haven't seen any county described as disgusting or disgraceful for their neglect of hurling like some of the comments from posters on this thread.

    Several people on this thread, including a moderator, stated that Kilkenny should be penalised in some way for not promoting both sports equally. I can't see where you pointed out to them to leave hurling out of the discussion. Yet when anyone mentions half the country neglecting hurling, they are changing the subject. You actually "thanked" Ultimate Chin for his completely inaccurate views on the state of hurling. This would indicate to me that your thinking is somewhat skewed. Can you not acknowledge that Kilkenny are no different to nearly half the 32 counties in terms of their commitment to both hurling and football at inter-county level?


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    #72
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    adrian522 wrote: »
    If I may be a pendant , nobody fields a football team in the Liam McCarthy Cup.

    Secondly, I honestly don't believe it will do anybody any good for Kilkenny to field a team in the senior Leinster championship.

    Sanction is not really a solution to the problem.

    Also that is not the reason Kilkenny have been successful over the last decade any more than it is for Tyrone the other way around (who I notice you are not advocating fining).

    Why would you want to be a pendant? - sorry just being pedantic;)

    While I am not advocating sanction it's hard to say it's not the solution to the problem as it hasn't been tried there!

    Why would anyone advocate fining Tyrone in this thread?:confused:

    There is so much the kk county board could do but don't.
    Do they have a football development plan? A strategy in place to develop the skills of the game in primary and secondary schools in the county? Have they developed the underage structure at club level?
    Have they sought out the possibility of combining clubs, where needed, (maybe on a divisional basis) where each division is made up of 3 or 4 clubs within a region? - even at u-12, u14 etc?
    Have they sought the advice and expertise of Croke Park or the Leinster Council towards development of the game?
    Have they contacted the universities and colleges that run sport courses that may have students there from kk, that can do some of their 'hands on' course work in the clubs/schools?

    As far as I am concerned they have done fúck all, hence my opinion as stated in previous posts.


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    #73
    Martin567
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Martin567


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    I refer you to my earlier 'glib and irrelevant':rolleyes: response and of that of eroo's above, it really is pretty simple to understand! If you still cannot understand, read those posts again and then read the thread title again.

    Thanks for that. I took your advice and referred to your earlier thread. You're correct, it is simple to understand and I understood it fully the first time. It remains, however, glib and completely irrelevant to the point I was making. I note you have still refused to answer my initial question. I will just have to assume that you are equally frustrated at the disgusting and disgraceful failure of Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, etc, to promote hurling and football equally.


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    #74
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Bowlardo wrote: »
    Handball is another code of the GAA and we are always top players in the respect!


    It certainly is - and is Mikey ' Duxie ' Walsh the name of the kk fella who won shít loads of senior titles - a credit to be sure and in fact I'd say he could still make the kk football intercounty team !!!


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    #75
    30txsbzmcu2k9w
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭30txsbzmcu2k9w


    I know little or nothing and i can tell you as a KK man the vast vast majority couldn't give a flying fúck about Gaelic football here.
    It's always been that way, whether it has it's roots in the popularity of cricket in the early 20th century as a previous poster mentioned or something else I don't know.
    It'll always be a minority sport here, no matter how much money you throw at it.


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    #76
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    Why would you want to be a pendant? - sorry just being pedantic;)

    While I am not advocating sanction it's hard to say it's not the solution to the problem as it hasn't been tried there!

    Why would anyone advocate fining Tyrone in this thread?:confused:

    There is so much the kk county board could do but don't.
    Do they have a football development plan? A strategy in place to develop the skills of the game in primary and secondary schools in the county? Have they developed the underage structure at club level?
    Have they sought out the possibility of combining clubs, where needed, (maybe on a divisional basis) where each division is made up of 3 or 4 clubs within a region? - even at u-12, u14 etc?
    Have they sought the advice and expertise of Croke Park or the Leinster Council towards development of the game?
    Have they contacted the universities and colleges that run sport courses that may have students there from kk, that can do some of their 'hands on' course work in the clubs/schools?

    As far as I am concerned they have done fúck all, hence my opinion as stated in previous posts.

    OK, What would a withdrawal of funding actually achieve? Seriously?

    The main problem as I see it is there is no interest in the sport of Gaelic football from within the county, not even among players who have no chance of making the hurling team.

    I only brought up the Tyrone example as another poster said that Kilkenny's success over the last decade was due to focusing on one sport, which is nonsense in fairness.

    Answer me this if you will, why is it so important to you to force Gaelic football on Kilkenny? what difference would it make in the grand scheme of things if Kilkenny don't participate in the senior championship?

    After all there are only 13 teams in the senior Hurling championship.


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    #77
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Martin567 wrote: »
    Thanks for that. I took your advice and referred to your earlier thread ( response). You're correct, it is simple to understand and I understood it fully the first time. It remains, however, glib and completely irrelevant to the point I was making. I note you have still refused to answer my initial question. I will just have to assume that you are equally frustrated at the disgusting and disgraceful failure of Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, etc, to promote hurling and football equally.

    your point is completely irrelevant to the state of kk football i.e. This Thread!


    Did I say kk should promote hurling and football EQUALLY????
    Now that would be comletely impossible, given they don't promote football at all - which is the problem if you hadn't noticed!;)


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    #78
    KingFling
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭KingFling


    Kilkenny have dominated in two of the four GAA codes in the past 10-20 years. Kilkenny is also a small county with a much lower no. of clubs than Cork and Tipp etc......


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    #79
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    adrian522 wrote: »
    OK, What would a withdrawal of funding actually achieve? Seriously?

    The main problem as I see it is there is no interest in the sport of Gaelic football from within the county, not even among players who have no chance of making the hurling team.

    I only brought up the Tyrone example as another poster said that Kilkenny's success over the last decade was due to focusing on one sport, which is nonsense in fairness.

    Answer me this if you will, why is it so important to you to force Gaelic football on Kilkenny? what difference would it make in the grand scheme of things if Kilkenny don't participate in the senior championship?

    After all there are only 13 teams in the senior Hurling championship.

    Seriously???? I'll say it again as reading was not promoted either! I am not advocating withdrawal of funding! Thet need to start putting SOME of the money they receive TOWARDS promoting football in the county, it really is that simple.

    There are footballers in kk - fact. There are hundreds and hundreds of kids and juveniles that an interest in football CAN be fostered if a development strategy is put in place, i.e. if football is promoted!
    Kids can play hurling AND football - they are not mutually exclusive - especially if Promoted Properly! I played hurling, football, soccer and badminton every week when I was growing up. That included training and matches. It is not one or the other!
    Teach them and they will come!


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    #80
    Martin567
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Martin567


    adrian522 wrote: »

    Answer me this if you will, why is it so important to you to force Gaelic football on Kilkenny? what difference would it make in the grand scheme of things if Kilkenny don't participate in the senior championship?

    After all there are only 13 teams in the senior Hurling championship.

    He's unlikely to answer that one as it is apparently not relevant to the original title of the thread. Any divergence at all is strictly prohibited. Except where the result is a better "cut" at Kilkenny of course!


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    #81
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Answer me this if you will, why is it so important to you to force Gaelic football on Kilkenny? what difference would it make in the grand scheme of things if Kilkenny don't participate in the senior championship?

    Also, I wasn't aware that they compete in the championship? If they get hockeyed by 25 to 30 points in each game for years, can you imagine them againt Dublin in the championship? - that would do absoultely nothing to develop football in kk - a bit like their county board to be honest!
    Slán.


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    #82
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,319 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Martin567 wrote: »
    He's unlikely to answer that one as it is apparently not relevant to the original title of the thread. Any divergence at all is strictly prohibited. Except where the result is a better "cut" at Kilkenny of course!


    ^^^ :rolleyes:


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    #83
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    Seriously???? I'll say it again as reading was not promoted either! I am not advocating withdrawal of funding! Thet need to start putting SOME of the money they receive TOWARDS promoting football in the county, it really is that simple.

    There are footballers in kk - fact. There are hundreds and hundreds of kids and juveniles that an interest in football CAN be fostered if a development strategy is put in place, i.e. if football is promoted!
    Kids can play hurling AND football - they are not mutually exclusive - especially if Promoted Properly! I played hurling, football, soccer and badminton every week when I was growing up. That included training and matches. It is not one or the other!
    Teach them and they will come!

    Well when you said

    " it's hard to say it's not the solution to the problem as it hasn't been tried there!"

    I thought you were advocating it. But anyway, you make some good points but I believe my point is still valid, there is no appetite for the sport in Kilkenny.

    I understand they are not mutually exclusive I played both when I was in school. In Kilkenny.

    The game does get played it's just that people prefer to play hurling. Why that is I can only guess but its not going to change by forcing Kilkenny to get slaughtered in the championship every year.

    I'd love to see a competitive Kilkenny football team but it is not going to happen in the short term as unfortunately there is no quick fix.

    As I said before the GAA should be focused on trying to promote hurling in the 16 or 17 counties where it is weak rather than promoting football in the 1 county where it is weak.


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    #84
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    Also, I wasn't aware that they compete in the championship? If they get hockeyed by 25 to 30 points in each game for years, can you imagine them againt Dublin in the championship? - that would do absoultely nothing to develop football in kk - a bit like their county board to be honest!
    Slán.

    Thats my point exactly but this whole thread seems to about forcing Kilkenny into the championship when it will serve no purpose whatsoever.

    It's funny that there is no one from Kilkenny arguing for the sport to be promoted more within the county and there in lies the problem as far as I can see.


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    #85
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    Martin567 wrote: »
    The above deals with the exact point I've making but still manages to get it completely wrong. You say neglect of hurling is not widespread because no single team continually gets beaten by the margins that the Kilkenny footballers do. That is the whole point!!!!!

    Almost half the hurling teams in the country have the same attitude to hurling that Kilkenny have to football. The difference is that they have each other to play against and the deficiencies get overlooked. Kilkenny have no-one to play at their own level. 31 counties put a serious effort into inter-county football, one doesn't. Being generous, about half of the counties put a serious effort into hurling, the other half doesn't. Which is the bigger problem?

    The question isn't so much which is the bigger problem. Hurling is a more specialised sport. The fact that KK are the only county that doesn't bother with a game that really only requires a bit of organisation and hard work in which to be competitive is laughable.


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    #86
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    adrian522 wrote: »
    It's funny that there is no one from Kilkenny arguing for the sport to be promoted more within the county and there in lies the problem as far as I can see.

    I think more people would be in favour of scrapping the senior county team and letting the players and top clubs play for Carlow or Laois instead.

    And in that case you would have to scrap the funding too, fair is fair. Whats is the funding like actually? I read in the Indo a few weeks back that Tipp spent 1.2million this year and Kk spent 0.6mill, does anyone here have a link to that either, I can't find it.


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    #87
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Martin567 wrote: »
    In terms of articles, I meant comparing the lowest levels in each code, not just below the very top. I certainly haven't seen any county described as disgusting or disgraceful for their neglect of hurling like some of the comments from posters on this thread.

    Several people on this thread, including a moderator, stated that Kilkenny should be penalised in some way for not promoting both sports equally. I can't see where you pointed out to them to leave hurling out of the discussion. Yet when anyone mentions half the country neglecting hurling, they are changing the subject. You actually "thanked" Ultimate Chin for his completely inaccurate views on the state of hurling. This would indicate to me that your thinking is somewhat skewed. Can you not acknowledge that Kilkenny are no different to nearly half the 32 counties in terms of their commitment to both hurling and football at inter-county level?

    Why are your posts so repitively off topic? It was not me who brought hurling into this thread. You are seeking to complicate things here, needlessly. Yes, the likes of my own county's board, Cavan, Meath, Louth, Tipp etc all have questions to answer in regards to promotion of 1 code over another. No one is doubting that. What we are attempting to discuss here is the current situation in KK IC football. We are not saying the CB in KK are the only board in the country who are selective with funding. The complete opposite is fact.

    Hurling has it's own problems. We are not discussing that here. This is solely devoted to the crisis that is the Kilkenny football team.

    I started this thread because I find it ridiculous that any IC football team can be sent out and be beaten to such an extent where their biggest goal would be to actually win or draw a match for the first time in 3 years!


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Thats my point exactly but this whole thread seems to about forcing Kilkenny into the championship when it will serve no purpose whatsoever.

    It's funny that there is no one from Kilkenny arguing for the sport to be promoted more within the county and there in lies the problem as far as I can see.

    Where did anybody say KK should be forced to play in the Championship? That would not address the situation.

    KK's football situation is so dire, imo, because they have never seen success. Kids don't play it because they don't see a future in it i.e. playing football in Croke Park in September. As a result they play sports where they can emulate their heroes i.e. hurling, rugby, soccer.. to the detriment of football. It doesn't matter if a County is historically a hurling or football dominated County, in the modern games the County Boards should be promoting them equally.

    A solution for KK's footballers might be to do something very similiar to ourselves: parentage rule. If that brought wins for the KK football team in a few years time, it would place the panel on a good footing to develop.


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    #88
    timogen
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭timogen


    Just to give my two cents as a kilkenny man.When i played underage for piltown we could play both codes if we wanted,i wanted to play hurling and i have a few medals at home in the press and two of them all-ireland ones,that's about twenty years ago now.
    But what people are coming out with on this thread is silly.If i was good but couldn't make it onto intercounty hurling panel,I should play football
    Why should i, i don't like to play the game.
    The people giving out about the kilkenny county board,Have you actually seen the accounts and the way funds are distributed or have ye proof that they were misused.
    The man that is over the kilkenny football,was a rent man in my area for the co.co. up to a few years back but i speak to him regularly and i have never heard him say that football in kilkenny was underfunded.


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    #89
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Aren't Cavan considering disbanding their hurling team? Where's the thread about that? Also Cavan hurlers and Kilkenny footballers have lost their games in the league by an almost identical amount. I know that they are two completely different sports but I would rate the quality of opponents in Divison 4 in football as far greater than in the same division in hurling.

    So many more counties put the same effort into promoting hurling in their county as Kilkenny does with football. The only reason Kilkenny footballer's stand out so much is they do not have an opponent they can possibly match in Ireland whereas all the poor hurling teams have their own league/championship where every team has a chance to win a few games. And you'll need a hell of a lot more than money to garner interest in football amongst Kilkenny people to be honest.


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    #90
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    If Kilkenny were crap at hurling, this thread would not exist. To try say this thread is only about KK footballers and has nothing to do with hurling is wrong.

    as others have pointed out, I dont get why people get so flustered at Kilkenny not making an effort at football, but seemingly it doesnt matter that there are 15 counties who dont make an effort at hurling.

    Kilkenny arent interested in football, so what? football will not die, there are plenty of other counties to keep it alive.

    More counties have no interest in hurling. That is a far worse predicament, because hurling as a whole will suffer.


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    #91
    Martin567
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭Martin567


    bruschi wrote: »
    If Kilkenny were crap at hurling, this thread would not exist. To try say this thread is only about KK footballers and has nothing to do with hurling is wrong.

    as others have pointed out, I dont get why people get so flustered at Kilkenny not making an effort at football, but seemingly it doesnt matter that there are 15 counties who dont make an effort at hurling.

    Kilkenny arent interested in football, so what? football will not die, there are plenty of other counties to keep it alive.

    More counties have no interest in hurling. That is a far worse predicament, because hurling as a whole will suffer.

    The above is clearly true and only a few disingenuous posters continue to claim that this thread has nothing to do with hurling. Eroo says he didn't bring hurling into the discussion. Perhaps, but he didn't contradict those who suggested sanctions against Kilkenny and who said Kilkenny's hurling success was due to their ignoring of football. In fact, he agreed with another poster who said Div 3 & Div 4 hurling teams have not neglected hurling to the same extent as Kilkenny have neglected football.

    I will accept his exceptionally rigid view of what this topic is really about when he tells other posters to leave Kilkenny hurling out the discussion.


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