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South East Employment Action Plan

  • 05-12-2011 5:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    Anybody read this yet? Richard Bruton published it last Friday. I haven't read it but having skimmed through the 105 page document it looks like a lot of it is just telling us stuff we already know, and seems very light on any actions that can/will be done to address the problem of high unemployment in the region.

    Main points:
    - €200,000 fund available for 10 start-up businesses
    - IDA will further promote their innovation vouchers (these are already available)
    - recommendations that Enterprise Boards, Enterprise Ireland and IDA reps in the region work closer together
    - IDA will prioritise attracting investment in the region in certain sectors and will work closely with Councils

    Press release: http://www.deji.ie/press/2011/20111202.htm

    The Plan: http://www.forfas.ie/media/021211-South_East_Action_Plan_Publication.pdf


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    So hang on...

    - €200,000 will be invested (I invested more when I bought my effin house)
    - something that already exists will be "promoted"
    - some quangos that already exist will "work more closely"
    - the IDA will "prioritise certain sectors"

    Sounds like a whole heap of nothing!

    No time to read it myself today, but I'll read over it in the next few days and see if the above analysis is actually fair or not!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Very little new here. The only interesting thing is the extension of MAN (broadband) to Belview.

    There is talk of 'sectors' but no targeting specialisation in one sector. We'll have some pharmacy, and some IT stuff but no core niche (like medical devices in Galway).

    On the plus side they put the emphasis on exports and industry rather than retail (which is the only thing that seems to get attention on this forum).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    They said that Belview is 1 or 2 ports recognised for use in importation of clean technologies i.e. Wind Turbines. Most of the wind is in the west and theres two ways of getting there Waterford - Limerick - Galway where the waterford to limerick road is ATROCIOUS or Waterford - Dublin - Galway which is all motorway. This leads me to the point where is the other port? Dublin Where you cut out the needs drive up from here or why not just cut it all out completely and ship it into Galway?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    O Riain wrote: »
    They said that Belview is 1 or 2 ports recognised for use in importation of clean technologies i.e. Wind Turbines. Most of the wind is in the west and theres two ways of getting there Waterford - Limerick - Galway where the waterford to limerick road is ATROCIOUS or Waterford - Dublin - Galway which is all motorway. This leads me to the point where is the other port? Dublin Where you cut out the needs drive up from here or why not just cut it all out completely and ship it into Galway?

    It says something bioenergy, so I think they mean biomass (ie burning wood for energy). Can't see why Belview is special (unless they make it special)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    dayshah wrote: »
    It says something bioenergy, so I think they mean biomass (ie burning wood for energy). Can't see why Belview is special (unless they make it special)

    Transportation of fuels is pointless because it eliminates any of the benefits of biofuels so its definitely not these, they'll be homegrown anyway. The next thing then is the transportation of factories for either anaerobic digestion or biomass plants but these are esentially just factories and where they will come from wont differ much from how factories are built at the moment.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    The plan lacks a lot of punch, and has been undermined by the reduction in tax breaks for redundancies announced yesterday.

    Employers who are considering laying off staff will rush to it now before the rate is cut, and Honeywell are first in line with 29 redundancies announced this morning.

    I don't like the sound of €200,000 for 10 companies. What happends if one company with fantastic potential needs €200,000, or we have eight viable proposals and two rubbish efforts? Do we still give the two non-runners the grants?

    A desperate PR attempt to make it look like they are taking some action, and a poor one at that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭comeraghs


    what a waste of paper, time & money?


    200,000! sack our 4 useless TD's & spend the money from their wages on something useful!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    At the end of the day what Waterford needs is more money being spent on it (for infrastructure, training etc).

    With so many Waterford people following the cuts agenda, we can't really complain when it impacts on us.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Curious, where in Infrastructure could Waterford benefit? Training - something more than FAS is it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Sully wrote: »
    Curious, where in Infrastructure could Waterford benefit? Training - something more than FAS is it?

    A university is the most obvious, but I'd settle for increased funding to WIT. They do mention extension of the MAN network to Belview, which is good.. A 2nd bridge within the city would be nice. Also I think Belview is underused, and a way should be found to better integrate it with the city, maybe even a rail link to the industrial estate. Of course I don't expect any of this to happen, not while we are cutting our way to prosperity.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    dayshah wrote: »
    A university is the most obvious, but I'd settle for increased funding to WIT. They do mention extension of the MAN network to Belview, which is good.. A 2nd bridge within the city would be nice. Also I think Belview is underused, and a way should be found to better integrate it with the city, maybe even a rail link to the industrial estate. Of course I don't expect any of this to happen, not while we are cutting our way to prosperity.

    The University is being addressed and even if its a rejection, which is probably unlikely, I can see WIT getting funding. They always get good funding from the state.

    Belview is the main focus of the plan, and it is underused but I seem to recall a conversation on here a few years ago blaming the location for that. Not sure what else we can do with Belview, bar the MAN network which might help some of the business units out there.

    We don't need three bridges lol. Lets be realistic, the new bridge is hardly booming and even if there was no toll, split the traffic on the existing bridge in half lets say and move them onto the bypass. Both bridges are moderately busy but not swarming with traffic requiring a third bridge.

    Cuts cuts and more cuts indeed but where do we have money to spend on such projects? How can the state invest in national infrastructure projects when there is simply no money. Its not like we have a few trillion in the bank and just went to the EU for the craic like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Sully wrote: »
    The University is being addressed and even if its a rejection, which is probably unlikely, I can see WIT getting funding. They always get good funding from the state.

    Belview is the main focus of the plan, and it is underused but I seem to recall a conversation on here a few years ago blaming the location for that. Not sure what else we can do with Belview, bar the MAN network which might help some of the business units out there.

    We don't need three bridges lol. Lets be realistic, the new bridge is hardly booming and even if there was no toll, split the traffic on the existing bridge in half lets say and move them onto the bypass. Both bridges are moderately busy but not swarming with traffic requiring a third bridge.

    Cuts cuts and more cuts indeed but where do we have money to spend on such projects? How can the state invest in national infrastructure projects when there is simply no money. Its not like we have a few trillion in the bank and just went to the EU for the craic like.

    It is a myth that there is no money. There are various ways of leveraging state money by accessing private pension funds to invest in infrastructure which is totally within the Troika agreement. To state otherwise is disingenuous. It's purely do to ideology that this isn't being done, but I predict the government will change their mind before the end of the Dáil term.

    This plan was specifically to deal with the South East and has zero new cash to back it up. Anyone who thinks the government are going to give new money to WIT or the South East, and not publicise it in this report is self-delusional.

    There are still over €6bn in cuts to come. Given a national population of about 4 million, and a Waterford city population of 50,000, that works out at about a €75million cut for Waterford City between 2013 and 2015. That's Waterford's fair share of cuts.

    Under the cuts plan there will be NO EXTRA MONEY FOR WATERFORD. Things like abolishing the toll on the new bridge would help, as would prioritised funding for WIT, but these will not happen.

    Waterford people have to be honest with themselves. If you are calling for cuts, you are calling for cuts in Waterford too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Sikie


    €200,000 is an insult considering Talk Talk will collect a redundancy rebate off the government of more than 10 times this for putting 600 people out of work

    600 people x 2 weeks statutory redundancy x €600 x 6 years average service (estimate) x %60 (government rebate allowable) = €2,592,000.

    Doesn't make sense


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Sikie wrote: »
    €200,000 is an insult considering Talk Talk will collect a redundancy rebate off the government of more than 10 times this for putting 600 people out of work

    600 people x 2 weeks statutory redundancy x €600 x 6 years average service (estimate) x %60 (government rebate allowable) = €2,592,000.

    Doesn't make sense

    I agree. Whatever Waterford needs it will have to do for itself. With regard to TalkTalk it is the local branch of unite which is giving the lead on accessing the EU globalisation fund rather than the government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    WLR FM wrote:
    IDA says attracting investment to Waterford is a challenge.
    The Head of the IDA says securing investment in the Waterford and South East is proving difficult.The agency tasked with securing foreign direct investment into Ireland has been accused of not doing enough for the region, but the IDA has secured major new jobs creation in other parts of the country.CEO Barry O'Leary says in Waterfords case it has been challenging to secure investment.
    http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/144216-ida-says-attracting-investment-to-waterford-is-a-challenge.html

    This was posted up on Twitter the other day by the guy behind the Norman Wyse blog and he made the fair point that we need to question why exactly it is such a challenge.

    I know that Barry O'Leary said at the time TalkTalk went, that a "deep-dive" investigation was needed into why Waterford was not attracting a decent level of FDI.

    Barry O'Leary and his team know better than anyone what all the dynamics are around getting FDI into an area, so how about this for a scenario? The government instructs him to get some companies to locate here if possible. If they say "go away with your Waterford, it's Dublin or Singapore - your choice!" then fair enough... but could Barry not ask the question "well why not Waterford?" and then every time this happens, collate the answers? Is it naive on my part to expect that this could be done?

    If this were to be done, then we could be reassured that it's not our lack of a university, it's not our lack of a major airport nearby, it's not our militant left-wing "wan out aull out lads" reputation, it's not that we're too far from Dublin/Cork, or else that our current SE politicians want everything in KK or Wexford... or whatever. We need answers to these questions though.

    We were long told that the bad road to Dublin was a real negative, but that's now fixed, and it's still a "challenge" to get investment here. If we can identify the problems, we can sort them. The way things are at present, it's like the IDA is a car mechanic looking under your bonnet and sucking in air through his teeth: "oooh, that's gonna be expensive...". We want to know what's wrong, why it's a "challenge" to get companies to locate here, and then once we know that, we want the government to get off its ar$e and do something about it.

    For God's sake if they can get HP and Cisco to locate in Galway, why the hell can't they get companies of similar calibre to locate here? What differentiates the two areas? I suspect that the answer is very simple in this case, and it's a ten-letter word beginning with U. But if that's what it is, then Barry O'Leary should come out and say it, rather than hiding behind vague excuses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If someone would like to try and get a word with O'Leary he will be in Belview on Friday for the opening of a new water plant.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0221/1224312117434.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭Bards


    mike65 wrote: »
    If someone would like to try and get a word with O'Leary he will be in Belview on Friday for the opening of a new water plant.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0221/1224312117434.html

    was that not last Friday?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    /slaps forehead :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    fricatus wrote: »
    so how about this for a scenario? The government instructs him to get some companies to locate here if possible. If they say "go away with your Waterford, it's Dublin or Singapore - your choice!" then fair enough... but could Barry not ask the question "well why not Waterford?" and then every time this happens, collate the answers? Is it naive on my part to expect that this could be done?

    If this were to be done, then we could be reassured that it's not our lack of a university, it's not our lack of a major airport nearby, it's not our militant left-wing "wan out aull out lads" reputation, it's not that we're too far from Dublin/Cork, or else that our current SE politicians want everything in KK or Wexford... or whatever. We need answers to these questions though.

    We were long told that the bad road to Dublin was a real negative, but that's now fixed, and it's still a "challenge" to get investment here. If we can identify the problems, we can sort them. The way things are at present, it's like the IDA is a car mechanic looking under your bonnet and sucking in air through his teeth: "oooh, that's gonna be expensive...". We want to know what's wrong, why it's a "challenge" to get companies to locate here, and then once we know that, we want the government to get off its ar$e and do something about it.

    For God's sake if they can get HP and Cisco to locate in Galway, why the hell can't they get companies of similar calibre to locate here? What differentiates the two areas? I suspect that the answer is very simple in this case, and it's a ten-letter word beginning with U. But if that's what it is, then Barry O'Leary should come out and say it, rather than hiding behind vague excuses.

    That seems like a very logical sensible suggestion


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭Silverado


    If we had some decent politicians it might help. If you look around at the recent job announcements around the country - there is a Dail heavyweight in the constituency pushing hard. Who have we got - three rookies and a absentee rebel.

    We have all the necessary credentials to put us ahead of the other recent announcements - a high rate of unemployment, an IT, a port, an airport, a motorway and lots of empty industrial buildings. I don't believe that we're any more of a challenge than anywhere else in Ireland. If anything we are more attractive. I'm blaming our politicians.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Barry o leary knows full well why FDI doesnt happen here, they are hardly ever shown here for a kick-off (IDA doesnt push Waterford - the stats proved that).
    Secondly, lack of political pull, be it incompetent TDs or lack of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭Bards


    Silverado wrote: »
    If we had some decent politicians it might help. If you look around at the recent job announcements around the country - there is a Dail heavyweight in the constituency pushing hard. Who have we got - three rookies and a absentee rebel.

    We have all the necessary credentials to put us ahead of the other recent announcements - a high rate of unemployment, an IT, a port, an airport, a motorway and lots of empty industrial buildings. I don't believe that we're any more of a challenge than anywhere else in Ireland. If anything we are more attractive. I'm blaming our politicians.

    .... Water and lots of it, Gas & Electricity too


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭Silverado


    Bards wrote: »
    .... Water and lots of it, Gas & Electricity too

    Like anywhere else in Ireland. So your point is ..........


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    More jobs for Galway:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0305/breaking8.html

    First of all, fair play to them - I don't begrudge them any of their success, but how the hell do they do it? How the hell are they the success story and we the failure among Irish cities?

    There's a difference of maybe 10,000 in the respective populations, and arguably they're even more "peripheral", but there seems to be an announcement of jobs there every other week! Why is investment in Galway not as much of a "challenge"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    fricatus wrote: »
    More jobs for Galway:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0305/breaking8.html

    First of all, fair play to them - I don't begrudge them any of their success, but how the hell do they do it? How the hell are they the success story and we the failure among Irish cities?

    There's a difference of maybe 10,000 in the respective populations, and arguably they're even more "peripheral", but there seems to be an announcement of jobs there every other week! Why is investment in Galway not as much of a "challenge"?

    I think this one probably isn't a great example as it is a company expanding its operations in Galway rather than a new arrival.

    One thing I noticed from the IDA website, which profiles every county offering investment solutions, was that there is very little IDA owned office space. This could make a big difference in swaying a decision, as was mentioned by others here.

    The 'technology park' out near Butlerstown only has one building, most of which is occupied. They should be looking to either build new sites out in that facility, or offer to take a stake in property which is currently vacant and unsuitable in order to bring it up to standard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭AdMMM


    A word beginning with U I'd imagine.

    When you compare the two cities, education seems to be what separates us.

    It will take an awful long time for Waterford and its workforce to be able to sell an image of something other than manufacturing-centric to the kind of companies who are able to create long term jobs in the region.

    Hopefully we'll see many of the Talk Talk workers be allowed take advantage of the EU funding when it comes through, however I hope it doesn't end up like the Dell scheme in Limerick where 48% of the funds available were returned to the EU because they weren't claimed!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭Media999


    AdMMM wrote: »
    48% of the funds available were returned to the EU because they weren't claimed!

    Why exactly was that?

    Very easy to blame politicians when the older people probably just didnt want to go to college. Nothing that can be done in that case.

    Maybe 48% of people emigrated. Also nothing the politicians could have done about that.

    The EU basically said theres 10 grand for anyone who wants to use it to further educate themselves or start a business. They cant force people to do either of them. Theyre doing the same thing with TalkTalk and i can guarantee you now a lot of it will be sent back. Just once the people who actually do need it and want it actually get it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Media999 wrote: »
    Why exactly was that?

    Very easy to blame politicians when the older people probably just didnt want to go to college. Nothing that can be done in that case.

    Maybe 48% of people emigrated. Also nothing the politicians could have done about that.

    The EU basically said theres 10 grand for anyone who wants to use it to further educate themselves or start a business. They cant force people to do either of them. Theyre doing the same thing with TalkTalk and i can guarantee you now a lot of it will be sent back. Just once the people who actually do need it and want it actually get it.

    Because many people are too lazy to either start a business or take up the sort of mentorship on future options that are offered. Nobody gets a nice cheque for 10 grand, you get 10 grand's worth of help if you are willing to work for it, which a lot of people aren't.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    merlante wrote: »
    Because many people are too lazy to either start a business or take up the sort of mentorship on future options that are offered. Nobody gets a nice cheque for 10 grand, you get 10 grand's worth of help if you are willing to work for it, which a lot of people aren't.

    Its hardly a walk in the park either, setting up and running your own business. Its much more than being "too lazy". Many of those who have setup are struggling.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Sully wrote: »
    Its hardly a walk in the park either, setting up and running your own business. Its much more than being "too lazy". Many of those who have setup are struggling.

    It's not just for setting up a business, a lot of the money is spent on mentoring, CV work, interviewing skills, and I think possibly some re-skilling. Basically, the cash is spent on making people employable who may have been in the same company for a long time. The problem is worse if 400 people with identical skills come into the market at once, which is where Europe tend to come in with support (although usually the losses have to be higher I think). But whether or not you set up a business or take another option, you are going to have to get out of your comfort zone one way or the other and try to make something out of what money is there. If you don't do this, the money goes back to Europe, simple as, and you probably stay on the dole or leave the country.


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