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MSc Bioengineering - Job Opportunities

  • 16-04-2012 4:14pm
    #1
    Mr.David
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Considering the all-ireland Bioengineering masters course run in TCD, UCD, UL, RCS.

    I have an undergrad degree in Mech Eng, and nearly 5 years work experience since then (4 years with Jaguar Land Rover in UK, 1 yr as Energy systems design engineer).

    Basically, I don't like the sector I am currently working in and don't see it being a long term career for me. Looking at the Mech opportunities in Dublin, they really are very limited even when there are jobs available.

    I think that Bioengineering could be a good prospect, possibly design based in medical devices sector.

    My worry is that all the jobs are based in Cork/Galway and I want to live in Dublin. I don't want to leave a full time job and do a masters and end up unemployed at the end of it!!

    Are there many companies in the Dublin area in this sector?

    Any advice?!


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Comments

  • #2
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    Mr.David wrote: »
    Hi,

    Considering the all-ireland Bioengineering masters course run in TCD, UCD, UL, RCS.

    I have an undergrad degree in Mech Eng, and nearly 5 years work experience since then (4 years with Jaguar Land Rover in UK, 1 yr as Energy systems design engineer).

    Basically, I don't like the sector I am currently working in and don't see it being a long term career for me. Looking at the Mech opportunities in Dublin, they really are very limited even when there are jobs available.

    I think that Bioengineering could be a good prospect, possibly design based in medical devices sector.

    My worry is that all the jobs are based in Cork/Galway and I want to live in Dublin. I don't want to leave a full time job and do a masters and end up unemployed at the end of it!!

    Are there many companies in the Dublin area in this sector?

    Any advice?!

    I'd suggest contacting IMDA or IDA Ireland and they'll give you a list of medical device companies and addresses.

    But yes medical devices seems like one of the more buoyant sectors at the moment, touch wood.


  • #3
    Daidalos
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Daidalos


    Any ideas of what kind of salary a recent graduate of the masters course might make? I am an architect considering the switch and doing the TCD masters but wondering if it is financially worth the gamble. I also hear graduates without experience struggle to obtain work - true?


  • #4
    kevohmsford
    Registered Users Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭kevohmsford


    I know a few guys working for Medtronic in Galway having studied Bioengineering.
    It is an expensive course but there seems to be good job opportunities from the course.


  • #5
    kevohmsford
    Registered Users Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭kevohmsford


    Daidalos wrote: »
    I also hear graduates without experience struggle to obtain work - true?

    This is very true. There are currently graduate mechanical engineering jobs being advertised requiring 2-3 years experience. I am currently looking for work here but I will probably have to go overseas to gain experience first.


  • #6
    bradyle
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭bradyle


    Just in relation to wanting to work in Dublin in the Bio sector, it will be pretty hard finding a job. Ive two friends that are just finished the masters this year and one wants to stay in dublin because of a boyfriend and is finding it pretty hard to get companies that do that line of business in dublin.

    I know 4 people on the course and none have gotten jobs yet, it is still very early days though they only submitted their thesis at the end of September so they might soon.

    Also for graduate salaries from what I know it's around 25k in Ireland. Also changing from architecture to bioengineering would be quite hard, I think the med students have to do a pre engineering course and the engineers a pre bio, it would be a lot for you to take on!!


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  • #7
    C.D.
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭C.D.


    bradyle wrote: »
    Just in relation to wanting to work in Dublin in the Bio sector, it will be pretty hard finding a job. Ive two friends that are just finished the masters this year and one wants to stay in dublin because of a boyfriend and is finding it pretty hard to get companies that do that line of business in dublin.

    I know 4 people on the course and none have gotten jobs yet, it is still very early days though they only submitted their thesis at the end of September so they might soon.

    Also for graduate salaries from what I know it's around 25k in Ireland. Also changing from architecture to bioengineering would be quite hard, I think the med students have to do a pre engineering course and the engineers a pre bio, it would be a lot for you to take on!!

    This is true. Most of the action, especially small to mid sized is out Whest. I can only think of two people in Pharma/Med Dev in Dublin.


  • #8
    Daidalos
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Daidalos


    not very reassuring that after taking on all that extra retraining (and debt) I'd have to leave the country to get work and expect to earn 25k a year....I thought bioengineering was where it was at, but sounds as bad as architecture for career prospects....


  • #9
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    To a large extent it's an employer's market at the moment - supply exceeds demand. Of course for many positions you do want to get the "right" person and that will almost inevitably be someone with experience. I'm not saying it's right - it's just how it is and always has been. If you've to go overseas for a year or two to get experience then look at it as an opportunity rather than a hardship. You'll be tied to one place for long enough.


  • #10
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Daidalos wrote: »
    not very reassuring that after taking on all that extra retraining (and debt) I'd have to leave the country to get work and expect to earn 25k a year....I thought bioengineering was where it was at, but sounds as bad as architecture for career prospects....
    To be honest the only thing that seems to be "where it's at" right now is the likes of process engineers and most things IT related. I'm doing a science degree so I'm limited to QC/QA (ie. where all joy goes to die....)


  • #11
    tommyboru
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭tommyboru


    I spent 10 years in medical device R&D and manufacturing. I also taught on the all-Ireland MSc course. I worked in the sector until 2010 and left to move into another sector.

    The truth is, from an employee perspective, the sector has reached its plateau in Ireland. Total numbers employed are stagnant or decreasing. Productivity is continuing to increase as is turnover but this is irrelevant when it comes to being an employee. Ireland is over-producing graduates for the sectors size.

    Senior management is 'in the money' as they have access to a large pool of labour and can pick and choose. They can also drive down labour costs with the high unemployment rate. Any one in the industry will tell you wages and opportunities are falling. The industry will say otherwise as they want an oversupply of graduates to help drive down costs and increase profitability (and bonuses).

    There has been precious little investment in Ireland medtech over the past 5 years. Most new investment is going to low cost manufacturing locations such as Mexico, Puerto Rico, China. The higher value activites are being pursued by the likes of Germany and Japan.

    The industry (and here is an opinion) will start to decline in Ireland within the next 5 years. This decline will be driven by the increasing government pressure on medtech to reduce product costs. Ireland had an electrical and electronic manufacturing sector once. Medtech will also follow this trend.

    I left to move into a sector which is showing high growth, high demand, is recession proof and commodity intensive.

    Do your homework. Watch the markets. Follow the money.


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  • #12
    Daidalos
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Daidalos


    tommyboru wrote: »
    I spent 10 years in medical device R&D and manufacturing. I also taught on the all-Ireland MSc course. I worked in the sector until 2010 and left to move into another sector.

    The truth is, from an employee perspective, the sector has reached its plateau in Ireland. Total numbers employed are stagnant or decreasing. Productivity is continuing to increase as is turnover but this is irrelevant when it comes to being an employee. Ireland is over-producing graduates for the sectors size.

    Senior management is 'in the money' as they have access to a large pool of labour and can pick and choose. They can also drive down labour costs with the high unemployment rate. Any one in the industry will tell you wages and opportunities are falling. The industry will say otherwise as they want an oversupply of graduates to help drive down costs and increase profitability (and bonuses).

    There has been precious little investment in Ireland medtech over the past 5 years. Most new investment is going to low cost manufacturing locations such as Mexico, Puerto Rico, China. The higher value activites are being pursued by the likes of Germany and Japan.

    The industry (and here is an opinion) will start to decline in Ireland within the next 5 years. This decline will be driven by the increasing government pressure on medtech to reduce product costs. Ireland had an electrical and electronic manufacturing sector once. Medtech will also follow this trend.

    I left to move into a sector which is showing high growth, high demand, is recession proof and commodity intensive.

    Do your homework. Watch the markets. Follow the money.


    Honest and informative reply. Thanks so much. Just what this forum is for!


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Daidalos wrote: »
    Honest and informative reply. Thanks so much. Just what this forum is for!

    It's only his opinion, there's a prIject at the moment transferring a high volume med device from Puerto Rico to Ire land, in anything but very high intensity manual labour the adv in being in China etc is bordering on non existent for med devices. Costs are rising in China and staff turnover is rudiculosly high, regulatory nightmare too.


  • #14
    Mr. Tezza
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Mr. Tezza


    Where abouts are you? would you try any of the big pharmaceutical companies in Cork? like Stryker? check their website jobs.stryker.com for more info, and no I don't work for them but I wud like to!


  • #15
    Slowhands21
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Slowhands21


    Does anyone know how the last year of two of graduates fared in terms of employment. Also any advice from any mechanical engineers out there. I'm going to graduate from Trinity this year with a Mechanical Engineering degree.

    I am currently taking courses in Biomechanics and Biomaterials and I'm also enjoying my final year project which is with one of the lecturers of the Bioengineering course in Trinity. I wanna do something that I enjoy however I don't wanna come out of Trinity with a masters and not be able to find a job. If your good will you get something in the industry?

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated.


  • #16
    jimmymcelroy
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭jimmymcelroy


    Slowhands21 wrote: »
    Does anyone know how the last year of two of graduates fared in terms of employment. Also any advice from any mechanical engineers out there. I'm going to graduate from Trinity this year with a Mechanical Engineering degree.

    I am currently taking courses in Biomechanics and Biomaterials and I'm also enjoying my final year project which is with one of the lecturers of the Bioengineering course in Trinity. I wanna do something that I enjoy however I don't wanna come out of Trinity with a masters and not be able to find a job. If your good will you get something in the industry?

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

    I did an M.Sc in biomedical(finished in 2011) after doing my Mech Eng degree, had no problems getting a job afterwards. What is interesting is that from my M.Sc class all the engineering graduates found jobs quite easily, science graduates however are yet to get jobs.

    Anyone that is keen to stay in dublin will find it difficult I suspect, I'm working for one of the major biomedical companies in Galway but my girlfriend is in Dublin but you do what you gotta do!


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    C.D. wrote: »
    This is true. Most of the action, especially small to mid sized is out Whest. I can only think of two people in Pharma/Med Dev in Dublin.

    Pfizer employ well over 1000 people at Grange Castle (previously Wyeth). Takeda are also in Grange Castle. Amgen now operate the old Pfizer site in Pottery Road. You also have two BMS sites, there's a fair few Pharma sites in Dublin to be fair :)
    Mr. Tezza wrote: »
    Where abouts are you? would you try any of the big pharmaceutical companies in Cork? like Stryker? check their website jobs.stryker.com for more info, and no I don't work for them but I wud like to!

    Stryker is a med device company, neither of the Cork sites make pharmaceuticals :)


  • #18
    Mr. Tezza
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Mr. Tezza


    Thanks for the correction RoverJames... I graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering from CIT in 2010 and did another year after that to get an Hons degree in Manufacturing Technology (2011), was unemployed until mid-october this year... currently working as a sheet metal N/C programmer for a company in Kinsale.

    Found it very difficult to get a job that was in some way related to what I did in college, theres a lot out there but no one seems to want to hire a graduate they want 3+ years experience I find... everyone has to start somewhere...


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Mr. Tezza wrote: »
    ............ currently working as a sheet metal N/C programmer for a company in Kinsale.

    Found it very difficult to get a job that was in some way related to what I did in college, theres a lot out there but no one seems to want to hire a graduate they want 3+ years experience I find... everyone has to start somewhere...

    Only saw your reply now :)
    Once you have 6 to 12 months experience you'd be surprised how many job specs that specify 3+ years experience will be happy to interview you.


    If you can program and have an understanding of geometric tolerancing etc along with your academic credentials the doors will open sooner than you expect, of course there may well be no point rushing out of your current position either :)

    Many people who get into "decent" companies as graduate engineers find themselves working on the most boring sh1t imaginable that no one else wants to or will do for quite a while, sounds like you might be bypassing this phase while getting very decent experience.


  • #20
    cr17
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭cr17


    Hi. Have been looking at a change in career and have always had an interest in the bio engineering sector . Have worked for 5 years in mech eng.
    Hows the course going this year for the current crop and any more news out there on job prospects ??


  • #21
    Kellzer
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Kellzer


    Hope its not too late but here's my advice. I am a Civil Engineer who did a masters in biomedical eng and got a first class honours. didnt get one reply from these companies when I applied to every company in the country. in the end i did a springboard quality engineer certification course and through that managed to get an internship with a company. the work i was doing was basically checking paperwork as that is all half the 'engineers' in these places do. no need for biomed degree for these quality and manufacturing jobs. i packed the whole thing in because the work is crap (mindless and repetetive), they treat you like a dog and at best youll get a contract for a year or so off them. theyre not interested in giving permanent jobs. by the way anyone coming from a background that is any way creative or requires problem solving skills avoid these jobs. there is no room for any creativity. youll spend all your days following boring protocols, updating protocols, verifying this that and the other which is basically counting boxes or checking codes off from sheet A against sheet B. Worst most boring profession ever. the dole is not as bad as working in these places. Any civil engineer thinking this is a good career move dont be fooled by the media. there are very few engineers employed by these companies in the overall context of staff numbers. if there are 200 jobs announced, i guarantee only a few are for engineers and these companies use that term loosely. I saw no engineering (not even a calculator) in my time. As for getting into R&D...good luck! Very few companies in Dublin. 2 or 3 between Dun Laoghaire and Bray and that's about it. Sorry cos I'm not normally a negative person but I wish I had read a post like this before I committed a year to a masters. With a masters in Biomed and a ASQ Certified Quality Engineer qualification, the best I could manage was a Jobsbridge internship where they gave me crappy jobs with no intention of keeping me on.


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  • #22
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Kellzer wrote: »
    the best I could manage was a Jobsbridge internship where they gave me crappy jobs with no intention of keeping me on.

    I have alot of problems with Jobridge and how it's being used but it's not meant to be a trial position with a view to a permanent job.


  • #23
    Kellzer
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Kellzer


    I agree with what you are saying about Jobsbridge but my issue is more that I don't think I'd get a job anywhere after the 6 months experience in a role like this. Also I dont think this work is skilled because I could have done the job as effectively straight out of leaving cert I was only getting in deeper into something with poor prospects and boring work. That said there are people who would be suited to this type of work. People who like order and clearly defined work methods with little scope for lateral thinking and don't mind working on tasks that are on a daily/weekly or monthly cycle. I think any Civil Engineer would find this industry hard to cope with thou because Civil Eng in it's nature is a creative job where you need to make decisions that aren't based solely on following the steps in a protocol. I really think a certain level of OCD is needed to work as a Quality Engineer but that's my opinion. I know a lot of Civil Eng's/architects that switched to this area following the 'jobs' and they are all unhappy in their new job and all are on internships and feel that they are unlikely to get kept on or have much improved prospects of getting work at the end. The problem is that if you are outside Cork or Galway you are kind of screwed if your comany does't keep you on because there is noone else to work for.


  • #24
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    Kellzer wrote: »
    I agree with what you are saying about Jobsbridge but my issue is more that I don't think I'd get a job anywhere after the 6 months experience in a role like this. Also I dont think this work is skilled because I could have done the job as effectively straight out of leaving cert I was only getting in deeper into something with poor prospects and boring work. That said there are people who would be suited to this type of work. People who like order and clearly defined work methods with little scope for lateral thinking and don't mind working on tasks that are on a daily/weekly or monthly cycle. I think any Civil Engineer would find this industry hard to cope with thou because Civil Eng in it's nature is a creative job where you need to make decisions that aren't based solely on following the steps in a protocol. I really think a certain level of OCD is needed to work as a Quality Engineer but that's my opinion. I know a lot of Civil Eng's/architects that switched to this area following the 'jobs' and they are all unhappy in their new job and all are on internships and feel that they are unlikely to get kept on or have much improved prospects of getting work at the end. The problem is that if you are outside Cork or Galway you are kind of screwed if your comany does't keep you on because there is noone else to work for.

    Kellzer, I find that I am in a similar position to yourself, at a cross roads and do not know what to do. Civil/Structrual Engineering is so much more creative and there is agreater degree of learning from it, see this thread too.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83415573


  • #25
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    Kellzer wrote: »
    I agree with what you are saying about Jobsbridge but my issue is more that I don't think I'd get a job anywhere after the 6 months experience in a role like this. Also I dont think this work is skilled because I could have done the job as effectively straight out of leaving cert I was only getting in deeper into something with poor prospects and boring work. That said there are people who would be suited to this type of work. People who like order and clearly defined work methods with little scope for lateral thinking and don't mind working on tasks that are on a daily/weekly or monthly cycle. I think any Civil Engineer would find this industry hard to cope with thou because Civil Eng in it's nature is a creative job where you need to make decisions that aren't based solely on following the steps in a protocol. I really think a certain level of OCD is needed to work as a Quality Engineer but that's my opinion. I know a lot of Civil Eng's/architects that switched to this area following the 'jobs' and they are all unhappy in their new job and all are on internships and feel that they are unlikely to get kept on or have much improved prospects of getting work at the end. The problem is that if you are outside Cork or Galway you are kind of screwed if your comany does't keep you on because there is noone else to work for.

    You certainly seem to have achieved a pretty high count of sweeping generalisations there. It also seems that your expectations were to walk in off the street to a senior R&D job. The reality is that it's still an employer's market so getting jobs is always going to be more difficult for people who've changed specialisation than those who've always been in the sector, purely due to experience.

    And if you transmit in person the attitude that comes across in your posts on this thread then I can understand your difficulty in getting a job.


  • #26
    Kellzer
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Kellzer


    Yep I admit that my expectations were unrealistic and that was my mistake in going back and choosing this course with an expectation that I would be a man in demand. I didn't want a senior R&D job but I did want an entry level R&D job and my issue is really that there is little scope for movement between departments from what I have seen because the different roles are so different. The farther down the Quality route you go the farther you are getting from R&D. Quality and manufacturing were two areas that never interested me personally and so I was not prepared to stay going down this route that was making me so unhappy. My attitude may seem poor here but I can assure you that I give nothing but 100% when Im in a job even if I dont like it. My reason for posting this message is to hopefully give the facts as I've experienced them to any other Civil Engs/ Other people from the construction sector who are looking to reskill into this sector. I'm not knocking the industry as a whole (there are many people very happy in it and earning good money) but all I want to point out is that this type of engineering work if far removed from what people in construction would be used to and from my personal experience and that of friends from similar backgrounds, all find it hard to adjust to this kind of regulated/uncreative work environment. That's all


  • #27
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    It's probably worth remembering that not everyone starts out where they end up. One of my classmates on that course started working in supply chain in a medical device company, then moved to another branch of the same company as a Manufacturing Engineer and then moved to another company as an R&D Engineer, all within 18 months of starting the course. If you hold out to start on exactly the path you want, you could be left waiting. If you're willing to get in and work hard at lower level tasks you have a chance.

    Personally I think experience of QA would be quite relevant for a future R&D Engineer - quality standards, statistical methods, testing protocols, etc. are as relevant to that area as to manufacturing. If that's not for you then maybe you're as well off out of it.


  • #28
    redsheep100
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭redsheep100


    I was just wondering if anyone could give me a rough idea of how much time you spent in college outside of lecture hours, for this course. I'm applying this year and planning to commute (1.5-2 hours each way), so want to be realistic about the hours, and how much work I can do from home.


  • #29
    Vitamin T
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Vitamin T


    redsheep100 wrote: »
    I was just wondering if anyone could give me a rough idea of how much time you spent in college outside of lecture hours, for this course. I'm applying this year and planning to commute (1.5-2 hours each way), so want to be realistic about the hours, and how much work I can do from home.

    You should be able to do most, if not all of the assignments from home. Nearly all of the assignments just require researching a topic using published papers either supplied to you by the lecturer or which you search for yourself using online databases like Pubmed or IEEE. These databases can be accessed from home by connecting through the college library's website page.

    This year we had 2 assignments which required matlab so unless you have that at home you would have to use the computers in college.

    I personally did all of the assignments at home (matlab is fairly easy to find online if you really want it! ;)) and had no problems. Some of the others from our class were in college a fair bit doing the assignments but I think that was mainly because they get distracted too easily at home.


  • #30
    redsheep100
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭redsheep100


    Thanks, good to know.


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  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Kellzer wrote: »
    ................. checking paperwork as that is all half the 'engineers' in these places do. no need for biomed degree for these quality and manufacturing jobs. i packed the whole thing in because the work is crap (mindless and repetetive), they treat you like a dog and at best youll get a contract for a year or so off them................................. by the way anyone coming from a background that is any way creative or requires problem solving skills avoid these jobs. there is no room for any creativity. ........................................ Any civil engineer thinking this is a good career move dont be fooled by the media. there are very few engineers employed by these companies in the overall context of staff numbers. if there are 200 jobs announced, i guarantee only a few are for engineers and these companies use that term loosely. I saw no engineering (not even a calculator) in my time. ..............................
    Kellzer wrote: »
    ..................... Also I dont think this work is skilled because I could have done the job as effectively straight out of leaving cert I was only getting in deeper into something with poor prospects and boring work. That said there are people who would be suited to this type of work. People who like order and clearly defined work methods with little scope for lateral thinking and don't mind working on tasks that are on a daily/weekly or monthly cycle................





    If you have no interest in quality or manufacturing jobs in med devices etc you are essentially sticking the two fingers up to regulated environments.

    Many of the issues these companies face with their products in the field or before the products get to the field are often design related and due to the design lads not having a clue about manufacturing etc.

    Given the amount of actual med device and pharma engineers currently in roles that they reckon are a pain in the hole due to the regulated nature its not overly surprising that folks transferring into the industry aren't treated like gold dust.

    Most of the successful "engineers" (you seem to not consider them true engineers as they don't pr1ck about on construction sites with clipboards under their arm, sweeping generalisations work both ways ;) ) in med device and pharma would have primary qualifications in mech eng or science, they wouldn't have done bio med etc etc.

    They work in med devices/pharma as that's their thing, they understand why it is why it is and also appreciate that every single piece of paperwork is required.

    The R&D lads do indeed design stuff, but to get the product from design to the market is often done by manufacturing/project engineers, the very folks you reckon aren't engineers at all, and if the quality folk weren't keeping an eye on proceedings the end product would more often than not be dodgy as f**k.

    If you genuinely saw no actual engineering you must have been either pigeon holed in the most basic role imaginable or you genuinely didn't/couldn't see the wood from the trees, I suspect it's the later as even students on work experience can appreciate what goes on in places while they are finding their feet :)

    Your posts will no doubt be very helpful for many though, people need to ask themselves why back in the day did they chose the likes of civil eng etc etc.


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