Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

1159160162164165324

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Plenty of examples on google images and elsewhere of greenways and railways co-existing. It isn't rocket science to find a way to merge the two at pinch points


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I agree have the greenways aside the rail lines just don't dig them up.

    Another thing is trains should have more facilities for you to bring your bike on it.

    The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE largely and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side
    but extending it (eventually to sligo) providing more facilities would mean more use.
    A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    petronius wrote: »
    The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE largely and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side
    but extending it (eventually to sligo) providing more facilities would mean more use.
    A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar

    The appeal of the rail line linking Galway with Limerick has a very small appeal indeed, and has shown in fact that there is no demand for rail travel in the west.
    One main factor is that coach travel between Galway and Limerick is
    More frequent
    Cheaper
    Quicker
    than the train.

    I saw figures for passenger numbers on the section between Athenry and Ennis for the year it opened, and it would have been cheaper to taxi passengers individually, than the cost of the train.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    petronius wrote: »
    I agree have the greenways aside the rail lines just don't dig them up.

    Another thing is trains should have more facilities for you to bring your bike on it.

    The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE largely and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side
    but extending it (eventually to sligo) providing more facilities would mean more use.
    A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar

    The rail link between Galway and Limerick is a disaster....how could you think that Sligo or Mullingar (?) would be any different?


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tuam Greenway Project


    petronius wrote: »
    I agree have the greenways aside the rail lines just don't dig them up.

    Another thing is trains should have more facilities for you to bring your bike on it.

    The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE largely and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side
    but extending it (eventually to sligo) providing more facilities would mean more use.
    A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar

    What is the fixation with trains? Why not more forward thinking and radical ideas ? Electric Bus Corridor with a Greenway along side perhaps ?. Large sections of track were relaid between Claremorris and Tuam 29 years ago. It was Irish Rail's last meaningfull investment on the WRC north of Athenry. A train hasn't run on this line since. It it was to happen the tracks would now have to be ripped up and replaced anyway. Money well spent?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Could contributors from outside of Sligo let us know who the members of the Inter county western railway committee are from Clare, Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Donegal and Leitrim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    petronius wrote: »
    I agree have the greenways aside the rail lines just don't dig them up.

    Another thing is trains should have more facilities for you to bring your bike on it.

    The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE largely and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side
    but extending it (eventually to sligo) providing more facilities would mean more use.
    A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar

    Have to come back again on this post. what on earth does this phrase mean: "The WRC suffers due to lack of interest by IE" Irish Rail has a huge responsibility to be fiscally prudent. They have been forced for political reasons to run a huge loss making line from Ennis to Athenry, which for the population the line serves actually has an exceptionally high service level

    "and lack of non-dublin centric thinking on the government side" Dublin is like our "south east of England" like it or not with the urbanisation of economies, the critical mass of Dublin is key to the National Economy. Dublin needs to run well, it needs good modern urban transport like commuter trains because thats where most of the people live, where most of the money in the economy is spent and where most of the taxes are paid. The west needs Dublin to succeed can you try and understand this. The west does not need heavy duty railways that are not "green" carrying 8 passengers per train. But the West and the rest of the country does need to be connected to Dublin quickly. Just for example as the rest of the UK needs to be connected to London quickly.

    "A rail line linking Galway with Ennis, Limerick and Cork has an appeal and indeed linking to Sligo and mullingar"

    "Has an appeal" is this some kind of masterful strategic planning comment. It clearly doesn't "have an appeal" to the best brains in transport planning that work in the EU parliament that wrote the EU TEN-T transport policy because the Western Rail Corridor is completely excluded from that blueprint for transport infrastructure spending approved by every member of the EU.

    Can you not just take the facts on board. The existing new WRC from Ennis to Athenry has been an unmitigated disaster. Many people in this forum predicted this five or six years ago. What is it about the Western Rail corridor that is so bloody precious. Could someone please enlighten us all because for all the words that have been written in this thread and its predecessor I just don't gettit?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Saying how you "want something answered" or prefacing or postfacing your questions is not back seat moding.

    Please nobody report such again.

    Do not reply or refer to this post in thread.

    - Moderator


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    What is the fixation with trains?

    if done right they can be fast, and are the most comfortable method of transport
    Why not more forward thinking and radical ideas ? Electric Bus Corridor with a Greenway along side perhaps

    and where are these electric busses going to come from? how fast are they going to go? if such electric busses exist or were to exist they won't in mass in our lifetime, railway and greenway along side each other would be better as existing stock could be used.
    Large sections of track were relaid between Claremorris and Tuam 29 years ago. It was Irish Rail's last meaningfull investment on the WRC north of Athenry. A train hasn't run on this line since. It it was to happen the tracks would now have to be ripped up and replaced anyway. Money well spent?

    i thought freight trains ran until 2001 at least?

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    coach travel between Galway and Limerick is
    More frequent
    Cheaper
    Quicker
    than the train.

    coach travel is not a reason to not have a railway, as its market for the most part would never use rail anyway, or probably can't afford or won't buy a car, a transport strategy with both rail and road is the only acceptable way, a coach should never be quicker then a train, we once had the money, it all could have been done, limerick galway built on its current alinement with a reversal at athenry was never going to be fast, if the train is very fast and reliable people will be willing to pay

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    coach travel is not a reason to not have a railway, as its market for the most part would never use rail anyway, or probably can't afford or won't buy a car, a transport strategy with both rail and road is the only acceptable way, a coach should never be quicker then a train, we once had the money, it all could have been done, limerick galway built on its current alinement with a reversal at athenry was never going to be fast, if the train is very fast and reliable people will be willing to pay

    It most certainly is a reason not to waste money on a service that is worse in almost any way you care to look at it.

    Your statement about car usage makes no sense to me. Why would a car user use a train and not a coach? Why would they not drive their own car?

    The wrc is a dead duck, it'll only be worse when the M18 is finished. You have private sector coach companies running a better service from the heart of Galway city in a privately operated coach station to Limerick. Unless a LGV was built, it'd be hard for rail to be better. We already wasted about 100 million on the wrc, and more is being wasted each day it stays open.

    As it is, the shortest journey by train from Galway to the edge of Dublin city is 2hr, 17 mins

    Express coaches can match that time, and beat that price to Dublin city centre. medium distance intercity travel is not served well by train here, and won't be either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    It most certainly is a reason not to waste money on a service that is worse in almost any way you care to look at it.

    its irrelevant, 2 different methods, 2 different markets really.
    Your statement about car usage makes no sense to me. Why would a car user use a train and not a coach? Why would they not drive their own car?

    well using friends of mine as an example, some will drive long distances with the car if they are going somewhere with the family or if going somewhere that the train doesn't, they wouldn't take a bus for long distance journeys, a couple of others use the bus because it brings them right outside their relatives houses but they would be the first to recognize not everyone wants to go to the same place or that a bus is acceptable for everyone
    You have private sector coach companies running a better service from the heart of Galway city in a privately operated coach station to Limerick.

    again thats fine, that does not mean a rail link shouldn't have been built between the 2 cities, however i can agree that on the current alinement it was never going to do good trade.
    Unless a LGV was built, it'd be hard for rail to be better.

    untrue
    As it is, the shortest journey by train from Galway to the edge of Dublin city is 2hr, 17 mins

    improve line speeds and that will fall, have them non stop from athlone at least or maybe port arlington.
    Express coaches can match that time, and beat that price to Dublin city centre.

    they shouldn't be able to match that time, it shows how slow transport is in this country, a bus will always be cheeper, but if you offer a faster service people might be willing to pay.
    medium distance intercity travel is not served well by train here, and won't be either.

    not served well at the moment maybe, if it won't be, its because the will isn't there, the galway dublin service could not be replaced by coaches, the people deserve something faster, coach speeds in this country are not good enough to shorten the distances between most of the areas served by rail and never will be, a transport strategy including both methods is the only acceptable solution for this country, anything else is in my opinion selling us short.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,048 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Motorways finished a lot of the rail network and it was predicted. IE saw it coming or maybe not. In fact their entire investment plan ignored it!


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    It most certainly is a reason not to waste money on a service that is worse in almost any way you care to look at it.

    Your statement about car usage makes no sense to me. Why would a car user use a train and not a coach? Why would they not drive their own car?

    The wrc is a dead duck, it'll only be worse when the M18 is finished. You have private sector coach companies running a better service from the heart of Galway city in a privately operated coach station to Limerick. Unless a LGV was built, it'd be hard for rail to be better. We already wasted about 100 million on the wrc, and more is being wasted each day it stays open.

    As it is, the shortest journey by train from Galway to the edge of Dublin city is 2hr, 17 mins

    Express coaches can match that time, and beat that price to Dublin city centre. medium distance intercity travel is not served well by train here, and won't be either.

    It's posts like this that give WRC supporters ammo.

    While I agree that the needed investment to get a Galway to Limerick WRC-type route to be attractive vs coach or car can't be justified (on economic, environmental or regional development grounds -- because you could get better results for all three by spending elsewhere), but you're wrong that LGV standards and costs would be needed. You could get the route attractive vs coach or car with a lot less cost and lower standard than required by the TGV and other high-speed services which use LGV lines.

    The second own goal here is mixing up largely unsupported and unjustifiable investment in the Galway to Limerick, with the largely supported and justifiable potential of the Dublin to Galway route.

    Much lower than LGV investment on the Dublin to Galway route (ie having basic double track Galway to Athlone, line improvements with sections shared by Cork services, removal or mass reduction of intercity/local conflict by building Dart Underground, etc) are far, far more justifiable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    monument wrote: »
    It's posts like this that give WRC supporters ammo.

    While I agree that the needed investment to get a Galway to Limerick WRC-type route to be attractive vs coach or car can't be justified (on economic, environmental or regional development grounds -- because you could get better results for all three by spending elsewhere), but you're wrong that LGV standards and costs would be needed. You could get the route attractive vs coach or car with a lot less cost and lower standard than required by the TGV and other high-speed services which use LGV lines.

    The second own goal here is mixing up largely unsupported and unjustifiable investment in the Galway to Limerick, with the largely supported and justifiable potential of the Dublin to Galway route.

    Much lower than LGV investment on the Dublin to Galway route (ie having basic double track Galway to Athlone, line improvements with sections shared by Cork services, removal or mass reduction of intercity/local conflict by building Dart Underground, etc) are far, far more justifiable.

    Really doesn't make sense for double track from Athlone to Galway, surely Portarlington to Athlone double track is all that is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    There should be no money spent on it, it will never recover capital, and will run at a loss.

    There is not the population in Ireland to support intercity rail

    The existing line carries a minibus load of passengers, who if they pay their fare, are buying a slower, more expensive journey.

    A hundred million invested wisely in public transit in Galway, Clare and Limerick would have provided a much better system


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    There should be no money spent on it, it will never recover capital, and will run at a loss.

    There is not the population in Ireland to support intercity rail

    The existing line carries a minibus load of passengers, who if they pay their fare, are buying a slower, more expensive journey.

    A hundred million invested wisely in public transit in Galway, Clare and Limerick would have provided a much better system

    So there is no market for Dublin to Cork or Dublin to Belfast intercity rail? :confused:

    There is a market for intercity travel in Ireland but the WRC is not one of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Really doesn't make sense for double track from Athlone to Galway, surely Portarlington to Athlone double track is all that is needed.
    of course athlone galway double tracking makes sense, should have been done years ago along with athlone portarlington and the making of the dublin galway service an hourly service

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    There should be no money spent on it, it will never recover capital, and will run at a loss.

    the WRC? i think we all agree, however the rest of the network, absolutely money should be spent on it, ripping it up and replacing with busses might be fine for those who don't use rail but for those of us who do we will not use the bus alternatives if our network is shut.
    There is not the population in Ireland to support intercity rail

    of course we do, sure a bigger population would be nice but the current network excluding ennis athenry is viable, again if the limerick galway was built on a different alinement it might have done good trade but no point in worrying about it now, intercity rail must be invested in, busses have a market but people do want a fast service to the capital at least, busses can't offer that

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    monument wrote: »
    It's posts like this that give WRC supporters ammo.

    .

    Monument they have no ammo anymore. The arguments in favour of the WRC have been beaten into the ground and whatever is said in this microcosm of debate will make no difference.

    It's not local or even national politics that has killed off the WRC, it's not the arguments the pro-greenway lobby have put forward. It's Europe. Last July the Ear to the Ground crew from RTE made a short slot for the programme on the greenway arguments that was aired in January; It was talked about on this thread and many people saw it. Gerry Murray an SF councillor from Charlestown made a comment on that programme about hoping for news about securing funding soon for the WRC. It was July 2013 when he was interviedwed, he was referring to the hoped for funding to come from European TEN-T Transport policy due for approval in November 2013. This didn't happen, in fact European TEN-T doesn't even mention the WRC, never mind highlight it for investment. Without inclusion in the European TEN-T Transport policy European funding for this project will not happen; and it is not going to be funded from our own pot of money (we still don't have any!) West on Track, the county councils still arguing for it and one or two forlorn TDs, and a couple of bandwagon MEPs can say all they want, until they are blue in the face, or perhaps even until they are themselves pushing up daisies.

    There is going to be no money to build the WRC north of Athenry, there is going to be no money to subvent the WRC north of Athenry - in fact the money to subvent the WRC between Athenry and Ennis is likeley to be cut.

    No Money = No railway. Facts not myths. Let's stick to them shall we.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Both TEN-T and the Minister emphasise the Belfast-Dublin-Cork corridor, with the Minister adding Dublin commuter to that.

    Everything else, it's either hold or lose, so forget about expansion (even the (relatively) small amount necessary to double-track Portarlington-Athlone).

    And in response to what some posters reckon is the Minister's personal policy - no change of Minister, or even change of government, will result in a different policy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    serfboard wrote: »
    Both TEN-T and the Minister emphasise the Belfast-Dublin-Cork corridor, with the Minister adding Dublin commuter to that.

    Everything else, it's either hold or lose, so forget about expansion (even the (relatively) small amount necessary to double-track Portarlington-Athlone).

    And in response to what some posters reckon is the Minister's personal policy - no change of Minister, or even change of government, will result in a different policy.

    TEN-T will be government transport infrastructure policy for the next 20 years, so you are right about changes of Minister or even government for that matter.
    The annoying thing is the waste on the WRC Ennis/Athenry. Double tracking or more passing points would have allowed for a better dublin-galway or dublin sligo service. One lobby group claimed to be the "voice of the west" and have probably done more damage to rail travel in the West of Ireland than any government, Irish Rail or minister for 50 years, because they failed to realise that rail travel in the west is all about getting the train to Dublin, the really ironic thing is the one line that would have been of real benefit to the west - Athlone-Mullingar - is now set to become a greenway! and had that line been re-opened, galway - connolly would have made a better and possibly faster route to Dublin from the west will not be achieved as this route is now going to be a cycleway! But I am afraid local lobby groups only lobby for things to happen in the parish and really don't look further than the county border.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    serfboard wrote: »
    in response to what some posters reckon is the Minister's personal policy - no change of Minister, or even change of government, will result in a different policy.

    maybe not personal policy, but varadkar does come across as being happy with this result, at least to me, the idea that our network could be more or less left to rot is laughable and to me ridiculous, of course cork and belfast will get priority thats fine, but whether people agree or not we have other cities on this island, and a rail network that could do decent business with moddist investment, we have more or less done the overspecked motor ways, give the railway a chance instead of using it as a political stick to beat because of the failure of 1 line.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Here is an interesting question which relates to the Western Rail Corridor.

    Now the dust has settled after the election; one of the main political bodies that has always upheld political support for the WRC has been the Intercounty Western Railway Committee; This committee has always been a staunch backer of West on Track. I wonder with new blood coming into the councils will we see any change in faces on this committee or will the old guard cling to their positions and claim to speak on behalf of all councils.

    Sligo coco has 4 representatives and Mayo 5. I'm not sure of other counties but if we suppose that Roscommon has 4 Leitrim 3, Galway 5 and Clare 4, we are looking at 25 councillors on this committee.

    With no prospect of the western rail corridor being extended what exactly does this committee do, what is their purpose, what is their raison d'etre.

    We know who has been appointed to this committee in Sligo but I have not yet seen who has come on board yet from the other counties. It would be interesting to see the make up of this body of gentlemen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    westtip wrote: »
    .... the Intercounty Western Railway Committee; This committee has always been a staunch backer of West on Track. I wonder with new blood coming into the councils will we see any change in faces on this committee or will the old guard cling to their positions and claim to speak on behalf of all councils.

    Sligo coco has 4 representatives and Mayo 5. I'm not sure of other counties but if we suppose that Roscommon has 4 Leitrim 3, Galway 5 and Clare 4, we are looking at 25 councillors on this committee.
    westtip do you you know who funds the Intercounty Western Railway Committee? Is it all the local Authoritys who send members or does it get national funding? i.e question is how do they claim expenses for attending these meetings?
    At this point should each local authority be sending memebers to regional Greenway Committees as Greenways are now popping up all over the Country?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    How? enthusiastically.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    These Regional Greenway Committee could be something that could be proposed to the Minister for Transport? Under the auspices of the NTA or Dept of Transport or Failte Ireland? Might be a way to get Cllr's of the various local authoritys per region on board.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    did they ever achieve anything?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    westtip do you you know who funds the Intercounty Western Railway Committee? Is it all the local Authoritys who send members or does it get national funding? i.e question is how do they claim expenses for attending these meetings?
    At this point should each local authority be sending memebers to regional Greenway Committees as Greenways are now popping up all over the Country?

    I think the point I have highlighted about the IWRC is just how big it is for the task it has in hand. West on Track often quote the IWRC as voice of democracy on rail policy in the west. The truth is it probably has very little influence on anything at this stage. I don't think it gets national funding, but the cllrs who attend meetings claim expenses in the normal manner. I doubt that all 25 members attend each meeting. It does have a hard core of membership who are keen WRC supporters, so its views tend to reflect those of WOT. I have not see the structure of the new committee, but there will be changes with new members who will be open to new ideas. 2 of the 4 members from Sligo Coco who have been put on this committee are very pro-greenway. I don't know who is on from Mayo. From Rosscommon a former member of the committee Michael Mcgreal lost his seat in the elections, he was a stalwart supporter of WRC and WOTm, so he is gone from this committee.

    Re a greenway committee, yes a good idea in particular as the national cycle network is a government project. There has to be co-operation between Coco's on this one, but not sure we want yet another committee claiming more expenses, although this idea (a western greenway committee) was suggested by Roscommon county council last April - a motion suggesting the idea was defeated 10/9 and may be resurrected again. Personally I would wind up the inter county railway committee and create an inter county transport infrastructure committee to include railways, greenways and roads. Roads, greenways and railways don't stop at the county border, taking a regional view is critical to public infrastructure planning.

    It may happen - you never know.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    corktina wrote: »
    did they ever achieve anything?

    They supported the spending of 105 million on a white elephant that costs about 8 million a year to subvent. They did not achieve much to help public transport in the west of ireland and have continually blocked the development of the greenway on the route to help regional tourism.

    This is what they have achieved.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement