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Over 1,200 licensed guns stolen in five years

  • 10-12-2008 12:08am
    #1
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭


    09/12/2008 - 17:44:16
    More than 1,200 licensed guns have fallen into the hands of criminals over the past five years, it was revealed tonight.

    The stark figures emerged after detectives arrested a sixth teenager over the shooting dead of widower Aidan O’Kane in Dublin.

    The 16-year-old was detained at Whitehall Garda station in the city’s northside while five others aged between 13 and 19 years remain in custody.

    The killing has been branded a watershed that demands unprecedented action to stamp out Ireland’s surging gun culture.

    But Justice Minister Dermot Ahern tonight insisted it was not just politicians and gardai who were responsible for taking weapons off the streets.

    “The fact that young people were involved is extremely worrying, not just from a policing point of view, but from a societal point of view,” he said.

    “We have to ask ourselves how do these young people get these guns.

    “This is not just a question for politicians but all sectors of society and we must question ourselves as to what kind of society we want.”

    Official records from Mr Ahern show 1,263 registered firearms – including 27 handguns – have been stolen since 2003.

    Only 373 of these have been recovered and the minister admits it is impossible to say how many stolen handguns are used in crime, because weapons are not always found.

    Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Sinn Féin’s justice spokesman who obtained the figures in a written Dáil question, said they underscored the need for a tightening up of gun laws.

    “The murder of Aidan O’Kane must serve as an eye opener for the Government which sparks them into action,” he said.

    “We need to face up to the fact that Irish society is facing a growing crisis particularly when we realise that young teenagers are carrying guns.”

    Mr Ahern said he has been fighting almost on his own against the surging gun culture – whether licensed or unlicensed – over the past few months.

    The minister revealed new figures from the Garda’s Operation Anvil against organised crime which show that 1,192 firearms have been seized since May 2005.

    The long-running investigation has also seen 126 murder arrests.

    “We are never going to totally eradicate crime that is the reality,” said Mr Ahern.

    “What we have to do is give the resources to those whose job it is to tackle crime and prevent it happening.

    “In fairness to the Gardaí, while there have been a number of high profile cases there are also a lot of very low profile cases and situations which do not come to court where they have stopped crime from happening.”

    Mr O’Kane, a 50-year-old father of one, was chasing youths for throwing eggs at his home on Shelmalier Road, East Wall, when one pulled a handgun and fired a single fatal bullet into his stomach.

    Detectives yesterday detained four male youths, aged 13, 15, 16 and 18, and a 19-year-old woman under section 30 of the Offences Against The State Act.

    Last night, the periods of detention for the four youngest suspects were extended for a further 24 hours.

    The killing is the 20th gun murder this year and came less than a month after rugby player Shane Geoghegan was gunned down in Limerick when gangland criminals mistook him for their intended target.

    Interesting stuff.
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055419497 ;)


«1345678

Comments

  • #2
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    I have to say and its just my opinion but that is terrible. A innocent man is killed and the focus is being directed towards stolen firearms. I doubt that the poor chap was done with one of those 27 handguns. Aengus O' Snodaigh calling for gun control, a tad ironic I find.


  • #3
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    I was surprised when I discovered the gun laws were so drastically relaxed at home after 2003. When I was growing up you couldn't even own a spud gun!

    Whilst I don't have an issue with people owning weapons, provided the relevant procedures are in place, what would worry me is that, as is visible from this article, there are a high number of military grade weapons in the possession of joe public and yet the police don't even get CS spray!??? :rolleyes:

    Gun laws are much tighter here post Dunblane.


  • #4
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    To be honest this argument has been flogged to death all over the place. The entire argument towards banning legally held handguns in an attempt to curb gun crime is b0ll0x. Its a complete cop out in an attempt to fool the public (the majority of whom have no clue about guns) into thinking that something major is been done to combat gun crime.

    Anybody who has been lucky enough to get a licence for a handgun has been deemed responsible enough and fit to own such a firearm by their local superintendant. Also if you have spent a small fortune and spent months and in some cases well over a year to obtain a handgun legally, then your not going to leave it lying around for some scrote to break into your home and take it.

    If your a career criminal why would you bother your arse breaking into a house to steal a gun, when you can just as easily buy one illegally or have gotten a half dozen as a 'sweetener' on a big deal.

    Metman: by 'military grade weapons' I take it you mean a Glock, which seems to be a dirty word at the moment. The people who own legally licenced Glock 17's are not the people that everyone needs to be worrying about, as there not going to be the one's confronting the OC weilding Gardai.. Its the scumbag who got one of the nice new Glock's being smuggled into the country.

    It is, I agree absolutely apauling the amount of innocent people who have been murdered in cold blood with the aid of firearms in recent years. And I doubt anyone will disagree with the fact that the problem needs to be tackled aggressively. BUT penalising the responsible, law abiding gun owners in an attempt to divert attention from the real issue is not the answer.


  • #5
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    Metman: by 'military grade weapons' I take it you mean a Glock, which seems to be a dirty word at the moment. The people who own legally licenced Glock 17's are not the people that everyone needs to be worrying about, as there not going to be the one's confronting the OC weilding Gardai.. Its the scumbag who got one of the nice new Glock's being smuggled into the country.

    I used the term, as it encompasses a number of weapons that are privately owned, not just Glocks. As I said, I don't personally have a problem with private ownership of weapons, provided checks and balances are in place. Despite this there's no arguiing with the figures; 1,200 licensed weapons have been stolen. Were you to enact a zero gun license policy for joe public, then that'd be 1200 less in the hands of criminals no? You mention the criminal fraternity getting them anyway, through the underworld/black market/gangland/whatever you want to call it, well guess what? A part of this armoury includes stolen weapons that were legally held (obviously).

    And no, it may not be the legally held gun owner confronting the (any day soon, possibly, maybe) OC equipped copper, it'll be a scrote armed, potentially, with one of 1200 stolen weapons.

    I think its all too easy for the 'target shooting' enthusiast that wants to own a Glock or Sig or even a Desert Eagle to spout on about how they're being victimised by tighter gun control, however, as someone who may well be on the wrong end of your stolen weapon, I'm all in favour of tight gun control.


  • #6
    brendansmith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    if the guards dont have guns, no one should.

    Families get devistated but gun turf wars.


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  • #7
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    I used the term, as it encompasses a number of weapons that are privately owned, not just Glocks. As I said, I don't personally have a problem with private ownership of weapons, provided checks and balances are in place. Despite this there's no arguiing with the figures; 1,200 licensed weapons have been stolen. Were you to enact a zero gun license policy for joe public, then that'd be 1200 less in the hands of criminals no? You mention the criminal fraternity getting them anyway, through the underworld/black market/gangland/whatever you want to call it, well guess what? A part of this armoury includes stolen weapons that were legally held (obviously).

    And no, it may not be the legally held gun owner confronting the (any day soon, possibly, maybe) OC equipped copper, it'll be a scrote armed, potentially, with one of 1200 stolen weapons.

    I think its all too easy for the 'target shooting' enthusiast that wants to own a Glock or Sig or even a Desert Eagle to spout on about how they're being victimised by tighter gun control, however, as someone who may well be on the wrong end of your stolen weapon, I'm all in favour of tight gun control.

    Firstly, I don't like the accusation of 'your gun', as it implies that I am irresponsible in the manner which I store my firearm. I can pretty much guarantee neither you or anyone else will ever be on the wrong end of my firearm, as I securely store it, and if it was stolen it would be little more than wood and metal and would be virtually useless as anything other than some sort of club.

    By the military grade weapons then would i be right to assume that you mean specifically semi-auto pistols.

    Yes 1,200 guns stolen, but that 1,200 includes target pistols, air rifles and starter/blank fire pistols. It also includes firearms which have been stolen/misplaced from Garda custody. It would be interesting to see an exact breakdown of the figures, rather than just this one off figure.

    I believe that the firearms licencing laws and regulations in this country are by no means lax and these fire arms are not being handed out willy nilly. Also it is a Garda Superintendant who decides if a person is fit to own a firearm.

    Also I'm not spouting on about being victimised, but I am making the point that taking legally held firearms from law abiding citizens is not the answer to eradicating gun crime in Ireland and personally I think it will do very little to reduce it.

    Do you honestly believe that banning these firearms will solve our gun crime problems.

    As regards Abbeylara, that was not a case of a scumbag stealing a gun, that was a man with a mental illness, so that can't really be referenced to my point of some scrote stealing a firearm, as it wasn't a stolen firearm.

    As a gun owner I believe that anyone who is not up to scratch with the secure storage of their firearm should simply have their licence revoked.


  • #8
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    brendansmith wrote: »
    if the guards dont have guns, no one should.

    Families get devistated but gun turf wars.

    Innocent people are killed and famalies devastated as a result of gun crime and I agree that this is unacceptable. But simply banning firearms because the Gardai do not have them is not the answer. The people who want firearms to commit crimes will still get them. Simply outlawing firearms will not stop them falling into the hands of criminals.


  • #9
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    i dont see how banning guns is going to make any difference to the crimials getting them, surely if they want them if would be easier to ship them in with the next batch of drugs rather than going breaking into houses and maybe not even finding any guns


  • #10
    flyton5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭flyton5


    to be fair this issue has been argued for so long that it almost pointless....u can take guns off everyone and the scum will still manage to bring them in.....then u can decide that its time to arm all members of AGS but as soon as they shoot someone we have a tribunal discuss the matter for months/years and all it does is generate bad feeling towards members.....i accept that AGS was formed as an unarmed policing body but this was 1922....things have changed and things need to change fast......any high ranks here......maybe someone can get onto Fachtna and have a word about getting me a Sig....i'l take a Heckler and Koch as well if there's any spares lying about....i reckon it'd be more effective than pepper spray: "lie on the ground....i have pepper spray and know how to use it!!!" OR "lie on the ground....i have an assault rifle which could go off at any minute!!!" :p


  • #11
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    As regards Abbeylara, that was not a case of a scumbag stealing a gun, that was a man with a mental illness, so that can't really be referenced to my point of some scrote stealing a firearm, as it wasn't a stolen firearm.

    My point in using Abbeylara was that it isn't always illegally held firearms that are pointed at police.


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  • #12
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    I reckon that the majority of firearm thefts that have occured were purely opportunist in that a criminal burgles a house and finds the weapon. Any stolen weapon will get them a guaranteed sum of cash for them.

    Banning handguns will do nothing for the escalation of gun crime that we are experiencing. Security features such as monitored house alarm and gun safes are not enough in my book. A house alarm going off is largely ignored by people and believe it or not when a Garda Station gets a call from the alarm company there is no details of directions or key holder given. So when I am responding to an alarm in the country all I have is a name and townsland. Hardly helpful at 4am and people it has happened.

    A gun safe is really only a good idea when trying to keep children away from the firearms. If someone breaks into your home, they simply will go after you to get the key or combination. If you are not willing to give up the key or combination, then expect violence to be visited on you!!!!!

    It is a difficult issue to come to terms with but I would suggest that firearms such as pistols are stored in your Garda District HQ. The station is open 24hrs so can be easily accessble, you go in and show your licence with photo ID and sign out your firearm. When returning from a competition or practice you sign the pistol back in for storage.


    What do ye think?


  • #13
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    There a few things that arn't obvious in that article. The break down of the 27 handguns is very unclear. We have a very strict definition of a firearm in this country which means that air pistols and starter pistols are included. The Gardai "lose" a decent number of pistols which are more then likely included in that 27 figure. As a pistol owner I have never heard of a fullbore pistol being stolen to date. Most if not all of the pistols in this country are in a safe, protected by a monitored alarm, on a 24h zone with sepaerate codes and duress codes. Not worth the risk to try steal them when you can get them on the black market easily.

    Dunblane, Abbbylara and other tragic incidents do get mentioned alot. Its worth remembering that the police/gardai could have prevented those incidents before they started. But the posability of a legal gun getting pointed at the Gardai is always going to be there. Incidents like that are very very rare in this country. I would say that Gardai are threatened with knives every day. A good few have neen stabbed and slashed. Needles are abit problem as well yet when the Gov bought them stab vests they bout ones that are stab prrof, offer balistic protection up to 9mm BUT they wont stop a needle!

    We actually have very strict firearms laws here but how they are applied by the Gardai/DoJ is the real problem. It varies compleatly between Garda districts.


  • #14
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    JonAnderton wrote: »
    I think conversions and imports are the biggest worry. As we've seen before, it's easier for governments to make a public show of "look what we're doing" by banning legally held firearms, then actually preventing the real problem. No one can say gun enabaled crime has been reduced since the Hand gun ban back in the '90's.

    If you are talking about the ban in England, handgun crime has risen there by something like 500-700% since.

    Handguns were banned in Ireland from 1972 (there were actually more handguns per capita back then) until circa 2004 because of the troubles in the North. Banning them didn't work then, it wont work now.

    Funny considering the North have never banned them.

    Complete cop out by the Minister who is obviously way out of his depth.


  • #15
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    My point in using Abbeylara was that it isn't always illegally held firearms that are pointed at police.


    Ok I concede that it was a legally held firearm, but the issue and the title of the thread refers to stolen firearms. This was a gun in the hands of a man, who clearly shouldn't have had one.

    What interests me is that out of my entire post, the only point you have addressed s abbeylara. You still haven't said what you class as these military grade weapons. Or the claim about my firearm.

    Also again; do you honestly believe this ban will reduce gun crime.


  • #16
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    TheNog wrote: »
    I reckon that the majority of firearm thefts that have occured were purely opportunist in that a criminal burgles a house and finds the weapon. Any stolen weapon will get them a guaranteed sum of cash for them.

    Banning handguns will do nothing for the escalation of gun crime that we are experiencing. Security features such as monitored house alarm and gun safes are not enough in my book. A house alarm going off is largely ignored by people and believe it or not when a Garda Station gets a call from the alarm company there is no details of directions or key holder given. So when I am responding to an alarm in the country all I have is a name and townsland. Hardly helpful at 4am and people it has happened.

    A gun safe is really only a good idea when trying to keep children away from the firearms. If someone breaks into your home, they simply will go after you to get the key or combination. If you are not willing to give up the key or combination, then expect violence to be visited on you!!!!!

    It is a difficult issue to come to terms with but I would suggest that firearms such as pistols are stored in your Garda District HQ. The station is open 24hrs so can be easily accessble, you go in and show your licence with photo ID and sign out your firearm. When returning from a competition or practice you sign the pistol back in for storage.


    What do ye think?


    I agree with you on the opportunistic theft of firearms.. Many of these thefts may be of old shotguns left lying in the corner of a wardrobe, etc. Owned by people who have no interest in having a firearm and haven't fired it in maybe years. They just keep renewing their licence every year because it costs so little and the firearm isn't worth selling. IMO, if you don't have it securely stored, you ain't keeping it..


    If you have a safe, I think it should be concealed and hidden from view, so as if some crook does break into your home, there's less chance of him finding it.

    I personally wouldn't be a fan of the idea of having to turn my handgun (if i owned one) into the District HQ every time I was finished using it. As I see it, its as simple as, if you don't have it securely stored you don't get to keep it.


  • #17
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    budda15c wrote: »
    I personally wouldn't be a fan of the idea of having to turn my handgun (if i owned one) into the District HQ every time I was finished using it. As I see it, its as simple as, if you don't have it securely stored you don't get to keep it.

    Considering the fact that 2 handguns handed in during the amnesty "walked" out of a Garda station and in to a criminals posession Im not sure I would be comfortable with the gun being held in the station either.


  • #18
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    Ok I concede that it was a legally held firearm, but the issue and the title of the thread refers to stolen firearms. This was a gun in the hands of a man, who clearly shouldn't have had one.

    What interests me is that out of my entire post, the only point you have addressed s abbeylara. You still haven't said what you class as these military grade weapons. Or the claim about my firearm.

    Also again; do you honestly believe this ban will reduce gun crime.

    Buddha, just to clear up, perhaps I should have used "one's gun" as opposed to "yours" as I don't know you or if you own firearms.

    Military grade weapons are military calibre weapons such as 9mm, .45 etc, i.e, glocks, sigs etc.

    I don't think a change in legislation will have any impact on gun enabled crime. I've policed areas with extremely high levels of gun crime and our gun controls are tighter than those in the Republic and they have made no difference to gun crime.

    However, I fail to see why any member of the public should be allowed to keep a pistol in their home. If you want to sport shoot weapons, then store them at the range or at a police station. As I have already stated, I am not anti-gun, firearms are an interest of mine on both professional and sporting fronts, however there is no justification, in my view, for private citizens to have firearms such as glock pistols, .357 magnums, sig etc in their own homes in the UK or Ireland.


  • #19
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    Military grade weapons are military calibre weapons such as 9mm, .45 etc, i.e, glocks, sigs etc.

    You cannt classify firearms by make and caliber as military. Most if not all manufacturers make firearms for both markets and there is no caliber that is exclusive to either civil or military shooting.


  • #20
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Rew wrote: »
    You cannt classify firearms by make and caliber as military. Most if not all manufacturers make firearms for both markets and there is no caliber that is exclusive to either civil or military shooting.

    I used the term military grade weapons, i.e weapons that are used by the military, such as 9mm, .45 calibre, i.e, Glock, Sig, Beretta. If you wan't to be pedantic, sure, if you go to the US you can buy everything up to a .50 cal sniper rifle aimed at the 'civilian' market, but we're not, as a society, quite at that level of stupidity (one hopes).


  • #21
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    Buddha, just to clear up, perhaps I should have used "one's gun" as opposed to "yours" as I don't know you or if you own firearms.

    Military grade weapons are military calibre weapons such as 9mm, .45 etc, i.e, glocks, sigs etc.

    I don't think a change in legislation will have any impact on gun enabled crime. I've policed areas with extremely high levels of gun crime and our gun controls are tighter than those in the Republic and they have made no difference to gun crime.

    However, I fail to see why any member of the public should be allowed to keep a pistol in their home. If you want to sport shoot weapons, then store them at the range or at a police station. As I have already stated, I am not anti-gun, firearms are an interest of mine on both professional and sporting fronts, however there is no justification, in my view, for private citizens to have firearms such as glock pistols, .357 magnums, sig etc in their own homes in the UK or Ireland.


    I do own a firearm, but not a handgun. As i stated in an earlier post, there is virtually no chance you will ever be looking at the wrong end of my gun..

    So by military grade you mean large caliber handguns such as .45, 9mm, .38, .357 etc. In saying that do you believe that people should be allowed to keep smaller caliber semi-auto handguns, which are chambered for a smaller round such as .22lr, the sig mosquito for example. A firearm which would achieve just as devastating an outcome if in the wrong hands and used from a close range..

    Agreed so, that this proposed change is simply to give the perception that something major is being done to tackle gun crime. When in reality it will have little or no effect.

    Why do you believe that people shouldn't be allowed to keep these handguns, which they own legally in their homes. How much safer do you think handguns would be stored in a pistol club or Garda station.


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  • #22
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Im not being pedantic but what is the definition of "military grade weapons"? If its calibers and manufacturers that the military use then there is nothing left.


  • #23
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Rew - you just answered your own question there. If you're unhappy with that, I refer you to my earlier answer, otherwise we'll be here all day.

    Buddha - I can't comment on the 'why' behind the legislation, as I'm not a politician. Will it have any effect on gun enabled crime, most probably not. As regards weapons being stored at home and calibre; my view is I'm not keen on any pistol being stored at home.

    And why is a police station or range better than a home? Range staff and cops are less likely to be careless, get drunk in charge of a weapon (I've never been called to a domestic at a police station or range where I've been warned that the occupier has access to a firearm) etc and physical security will always be superior. Simple enough really.


  • #24
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    Rew - you just answered your own question there. If you're unhappy with that, I refer you to my earlier answer, otherwise we'll be here all day.

    Buddha - I can't comment on the 'why' behind the legislation, as I'm not a politician. Will it have any effect on gun enabled crime, most probably not. As regards weapons being stored at home and calibre; my view is I'm not keen on any pistol being stored at home.

    And why is a police station or range better than a home? Range staff and cops are less likely to be careless, get drunk in charge of a weapon (I've never been called to a domestic at a police station or range where I've been warned that the occupier has access to a firearm) etc and physical security will always be superior. Simple enough really.


    Your original argument was against "military grade" large caliber handguns. I asked would you have a problem with smaller caliber handguns, are you saying now that you think there should be no handguns.

    As regards your comment of people getting a hold of a firearm during a domestic. A shotgun poses equally as big a risk, are you saying that people should be banned from keeping any firearm in their homes. Also if an enraged person is determined to get hold of a weapon during a drunken domestic, they will get hold of a weapon, such as a knife.

    If there is a range, which is full of handguns, all conveniently stored in one place, do you not think it is only a matter of time before a gang comes up with the idea of knocking the place off. Also by physical security do you mean people or Gardai in a Garda station.

    Do you think Garda Stations all over the country are equiped to act as 'armories' to hold maybe a couple of dozen handguns, which belong to others.


  • #25
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    Rew - you just answered your own question there. If you're unhappy with that, I refer you to my earlier answer, otherwise we'll be here all day.

    You haven't given me any answer. What you say makes no sense. You ok with firearms ownership but not military grade ones which you define as anything a military has used which is everything from shotguns to .22 to .50cal. It leaves nothing. There is no such thing as military grade firearms. Rifles used by ount Army were tunred down as unsuitable by another. Some countires have used specfically civilian firearms. If everything is military grade then would it no preclude civil police form using them? The whole military caliber/;military gun thing gets rolled out as a catch all but in reality its a figment of peoples imagination.

    Also if you think that Gardai are less likely to get drunk while in charge of a firearm or be careless you have a big shock coming... As I said earlier the Gardai have lost multiple firearms very carelessly and 2 detectives got drunk while armed and on duty outside the us Embassy and started figting with each other!

    The general security requirments for holding a pistol more then adiquate to stop a pistol being stolen from a house as long as those requirments are universaly applied and followed. The problem ATM is that differnat Garda districts follow differnat guidelines.


  • #26
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    Your original argument was against "military grade" large caliber handguns. I asked would you have a problem with smaller caliber handguns, are you saying now that you think there should be no handguns.

    As regards your comment of people getting a hold of a firearm during a domestic. A shotgun poses equally as big a risk, are you saying that people should be banned from keeping any firearm in their homes. Also if an enraged person is determined to get hold of a weapon during a drunken domestic, they will get hold of a weapon, such as a knife.

    If there is a range, which is full of handguns, all conveniently stored in one place, do you not think it is only a matter of time before a gang comes up with the idea of knocking the place off. Also by physical security do you mean people or Gardai in a Garda station.

    Do you think Garda Stations all over the country are equiped to act as 'armories' to hold maybe a couple of dozen handguns, which belong to others.

    I originally said I was surprised and somewhat concerned that a large number of military grade pistols were now in the hands of joe public. I am not in favour of any pistol being kept in a private citizens home, regardless of calibre, however I do not see an issue with smaller calibre pistols being used for sport shooting, target shooting provided they're stored at a range/police station.

    As regards physical security, the term refers to doors, walls, locks, bolts, i.e physical security measures.

    Are Garda stations equipped? I know that many Garda stations aren't equipped to house serving Gardai, let alone store firearms. However, this doesn't mean that money shouldn't or couldn't be spent. I've worked out of a number of stations that have had armouries.


  • #27
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Rew wrote: »
    Also if you think that Gardai are less likely to get drunk while in charge of a firearm or be careless you have a big shock coming... As I said earlier the Gardai have lost multiple firearms very carelessly and 2 detectives got drunk while armed and on duty outside the us Embassy and started figting with each other!

    The general security requirments for holding a pistol more then adiquate to stop a pistol being stolen from a house as long as those requirments are universaly applied and followed. The problem ATM is that differnat Garda districts follow differnat guidelines.

    So you're saying that because, in your view, An Garda Siochana is incompetent, it adds weight to the argument that private citizens being allowed to store firearms in their own abode?


  • #28
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    So you're saying that because, in your view, An Garda Siochana is incompetent, it adds weight to the argument that private citizens being allowed to store firearms in their own abode?

    No what im saying is that your suggestion isn't as perfect as you made it out to be. The security mesures taken in indvidules homes are IMHO better then those that would be taken in a Garda station if firearms were being stored there.


  • #29
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Rew wrote: »
    No what im saying is that your suggestion isn't as perfect as you made it out to be. The security mesures taken in indvidules homes are IMHO better then those that would be taken in a Garda station if firearms were being stored there.

    Have you ever been in a police or military armoury?


  • #30
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    Have you ever been in a police or military armoury?

    Yes many many times. Iv been tasked with protecting military ones many times. Its not the doors and locks that keep military armouries safe its the armed soldiers.


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  • #31
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Exactly. Same with police stations. The physical security measures are one thing, but the personnel are another factor!


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