'technical' support me ar*e

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 9:57am #1

A friend of mine phoned me up the other day, and told me he was getting a lot of blue screens, could be doing anything and the blue screen would pop up, he rang his technical support line and they said he would have to backup what they could while they formated the machine.

So I went over to help him while there he got the blue screen, i took down the error code, dont have it here now, however i looked it up on the microsoft site, and it cited memory fault or over heating cpu. `

I phoned back the company and explained this, after backing up several GB to CD, as he is a graphic designer, majorly big files. I took the cover off the machine and sat it next to a fan! sounds crazy i know but it didnt crash and cpu temp dropped.

phoned company back after all had been backed up as best we could, explained problem as he had 3 year "on-site" warrenty. They said the first thing they do is system restore, I watched in horror as he formatted his drive lost stuff we couldnt backup only for it to crash while installing windows, cover was back on at this stage after guy laughed the idea off! Next thing yer man says, we will have to send a technician out, looks like hardware, duh ya muppet told u that!! (Didnt say that, felt like it!)

Question: Why are companys so quick to format drives? I do some side work from home for a company where I am regularly asked to format and reinstall, but 9 times out of 10 I can find the problem in the registry, yes some people say it takes longer, etc. But ultimitly the client is happier.

The microsoft knowledge base is there for a reason. Technicians should use it.

Why didnt I do this myself if I knew what was up(I people will ask) wasnt my computer and owner was adiment he paid these guys for the service.

This company are not one bit worried about all the work he has lost even though he didnt need to!

Thats my rant for the day!!!

youcancallmeal · 23-01-2006 11:17am

I'm so glad I do tech support for a private company. If an employee has a problem with their PC we just get them re-imaged while all their personal files are stored on the server. I dont think I could ever do tech support for the likes of dell dealing with the public :eek: . Bottom line is tech support will always go for the fix with the least input/effort involved.

daywalker · 23-01-2006 11:20am

It just seems to be a policy with any company, basically they try to rule out the software end first, i.e reinstall original factory image, therefore eliminate any software causing the problem, then go on to hardware problems, a lot of the technical support people at the other end of the phone, have no clue, they just read information off a screen.

I work in EDIT and its the same when we want to order hardware for a faulty machine, they usually ask us have we remastered the machine, even when we tell them the hard drive has failed diagnostics,for example. usually results in smart comments "How the F*** do i remaster when the hard drive doesnt work?, you muppet". If there is a real problem they have to go ask the "technical" guys first to check what might be the problem and only then will they send us the required parts.

EDIT: removed company reference in case of problems with boss

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 11:32am

If you store important work related data locally with no backup policy, then you deserve to lose it.

No professional in their right mind would operate like that.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 11:40am

CiaranC wrote:

If you store important work related data locally with no backup policy, then you deserve to lose it.

No professional in their right mind would operate like that.

most stuff was backed up, thanks for the friendly attitude, I suppose you have all you outlook files, documents, graphics, media files, backed up daily.

In an ideal world all computers would be sold with a backup device, but you and I both know 95% of home users don't have backup's daily, that however is not the point. Formatting to my mind should be the last option, especially for a blue screen error! which mostly is caused by bad configuration or hardware, and can be rectified with research.

aidan_walsh · 23-01-2006 11:45am

dbnavan wrote:

you and I both know 95% of home users don't have backup's daily, that however is not the point. Formatting to my mind should be the last option, especially for a blue screen error! which mostly is caused by bad configuration or hardware, and can be rectified with research.

Of course, then you have to talk the home user into fixing the problem for you, because you can forget trying to do any kind of remote connective assistance. I work doing tech support for a private company, and had to talk people through applying fixes before we got a decent remote assistance package, and I'm telling you its the nastiest thing I ever had to do. It can take a flippin' age. "Start button? Whats that?"...

youcancallmeal · 23-01-2006 11:49am

dbnavan wrote:

In an ideal world all computers would be sold with a backup device, but you and I both know 95% of home users don't have backup's daily, that however is not the point. Formatting to my mind should be the last option, especially for a blue screen error! which mostly is caused by bad configuration or hardware, and can be rectified with research.

I've spent hours researching blue screen errors and other stuff but seem to always end up just re-installing windows. Sure, it might be rewarding to locate and rectify errors but more often that not a windows re-install will fix it a lot quicker.

That being said its hard to generalise, different methods are required for different issues. Normally when I come across a problem I can single out the cause pretty quickly either through research or experience of having seen it before. How its dealt with after that usually depends on what mood I'm in

youcancallmeal · 23-01-2006 11:49am

aidan_walsh wrote:

"Start button? Whats that?"...

I feel your pain :mad:

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 11:52am

Of course I have all work related data backed up daily.

but you and I both know 95% of home users don't have backup's daily

Home users can afford to lose their data. If they cant, they are a business user, and should have a backup solution in place.

Formatting to my mind should be the last option, especially for a blue screen error!

Formatting/reimaging is the first option in practically all situations. Try working in an IT company/dept with thousands of users with your attitude. The whole place would grind to a halt while the IT dept spend hours hunting down Susan from sales holiday snaps off a half dead machine.

feylya · 23-01-2006 11:54am

"It's an icon on your desktop"
"What, beside my coffee cup?"

I wish I was joking

I often find that a format is just the simplest and fastest way of sorting out problems, especially if you have an image on a cd and you can just copy it straight across. That's why I always get people to set up a Windows partition and a data partition. No worries about loosing data as long as they look after their stuff properly.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 11:57am

aidan_walsh wrote:

Of course, then you have to talk the home user into fixing the problem for you, because you can forget trying to do any kind of remote connective assistance. I work doing tech support for a private company, and had to talk people through applying fixes before we got a decent remote assistance package, and I'm telling you its the nastiest thing I ever had to do. It can take a flippin' age. "Start button? Whats that?"...

Thats what ur paid to do, so what if they dont know what they are doing, tell them, doesnt matter how long it takes obviously something complicated like a registry fix, send a technician out, that why people have on site warrenties.

Why should they loose months even years of files. cause ur lazy and have no patience

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 12:02pm

Why should they loose months even years of files. cause ur lazy and have no patience

If a machine contains valuable data, it should be backed up. Its simple.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 12:02pm

CiaranC wrote:

Of course I have all work related data backed up daily.

Home users can afford to lose their data. If they cant, they are a business user, and should have a backup solution in place.

Formatting/reimaging is the first option in practically all situations. Try working in an IT company/dept with thousands of users with your attitude. The whole place would grind to a halt while the IT dept spend hours hunting down Susan from sales holiday snaps off a half dead machine.

I have worked in several IT companies, "with my attitude" it depends on the problem, sometimes formatting is best way out of things i agree, but the microsoft website clearly cited hardware, meaning he didnt take 5 mins to check the site.

5 minutes google search vs 35-50 reinstall, i see ur point about time management :rolleyes: + time it takes to swap memory or change cpu,

aidan_walsh · 23-01-2006 12:05pm

dbnavan wrote:

doesnt matter how long it takes

No, nope, wrong. Have you ever tried telling anyone that they will have to wait a couple of days for their computer to be repaired? Home users will hate this, because they want to write their emails and play their games now. Business users will most likely not be able to do their jobs without their computer, so they'll be even happier to hear it.

Also, like CiaranC said, you'll bring a busy department to a halt if you're spending hours trawling through the MS KB looking for a fix to an obscure problem. In house companies can afford to spend more time doing this, people dealing with home users over the phone can't.

Hobbes · 23-01-2006 12:10pm

Nearly all bluescreens are due to faulty hardware or drivers.

Telling someone to format a machine is absolutly stupid technical support. Only a moron or a complete lazy ****e would suggest this without exploring everything else beforehand.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 12:14pm

aidan_walsh wrote:

No, nope, wrong. Have you ever tried telling anyone that they will have to wait a couple of days for their computer to be repaired? Home users will hate this, because they want to write their emails and play their games now. Business users will most likely not be able to do their jobs without their computer, so they'll be even happier to hear it.

Also, like CiaranC said, you'll bring a busy department to a halt if you're spending hours trawling through the MS KB looking for a fix to an obscure problem. In house companies can afford to spend more time doing this, people dealing with home users over the phone can't.

I fix computers all the time from home, first thing I do is check at least so I know the cause of the error, I would put money on being able find a patch, or registry edit for a blue screen quicker then it takes to reinstall.

Home user hate it? I never have any complaints. give me option of losing everything or couple of hours research i know what i'd choose, as proven with opening post, the problem was hardware, files need not have been lost. Had nothing whatsoever to do with software.

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 12:16pm

If its a business machine, it will be backed up. A simple reimage eliminates the need for any forms of troubleshooting. If the problem recurrs, the problem part should be warrantied.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 12:17pm

Also you can reinstall windows with doing a complete format.

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 12:22pm

Of course. Plus the data should have been on a separate partition, if not a separate physical drive, to the OS. Simple measures could have been taken to avoid losing data, but none were.

hobie · 23-01-2006 12:23pm

Have you ever tried telling anyone that they will have to wait a couple of days for their computer to be repaired?

When you loose your home pc it really is a highly emotional event ....

and the longer the downtime, the worse it gets .... :cool:

I'd never thrown out an old pc for that very reason .... right now my 6 year old Dell is sitting quitely on a shelf above me, waiting to be fired up if it's ever needed

..... I power it up every now and then, to give it a run around the block .... :rolleyes:

Hobbes · 23-01-2006 12:26pm

CiaranC wrote:

Of course. Plus the data should have been on a separate partition, if not a separate physical drive, to the OS. Simple measures could have been taken to avoid losing data, but none were.

Blame the user. :v:

TBH some companies/support places are just as bad. Most home users have no details on backing up, nor would they know what exactly to back up. They are told crap like have to buy a new/extra harddrive or some expensive backup system when most faults can be fixed easily.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 12:27pm

CiaranC wrote:

Of course. Plus the data should have been on a separate partition, if not a separate physical drive, to the OS. Simple measures could have been taken to avoid losing data, but none were.

Read my second post most stuff was backed up, but you and I know people save alot it little stuff of not major importantance email attachments bookmarks etc,

Work files where backed up. NEVER at any stage did i say this was about lost files, its about formatting as first option for a blue screen which has been pointed out usually is drivers or hardware,

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 23-01-2006 12:30pm

daywalker wrote:

It just seems to be a policy with any company, basically they try to rule out the software end first, i.e reinstall original factory image, therefore eliminate any software causing the problem, then go on to hardware problems, a lot of the technical support people at the other end of the phone, have no clue, they just read information off a screen.

It doesn't matter whether the 1st level support guy knows his stuff or not... a lot of the time you're bound by procedure to try x then reformat.
Although yeah, the problem is that they often hire people with very little knowledge of PCs for tech support roles, so every other agent is treated like they have no personal knowledge to bring to the party... and so you don't get to test a lot of the things you might want to.
It's all just sticking to the handed-down procedures and getting them off the phone in 15 minutes... it's the fast-food approach to tech support

I did tech support a few years ago... I was disgusted at how little we were allowed to help people... you act as more of a customer-service robot... and sadly only a few occasions where you can come up with a brilliant solution to a tricky problem.
I'm pretty sure I've formatted peoples PCs over the phone when I knew it'd do f*ck all good... but when you're told to do it, there's nothing else you can do.
Needless to say I didn't stay in that soul-destroying robot job for very long.

I've no faith in tech support lines, even if you know better than the customer-service monkey on the other end of the phone, you still have to jump through hoops to get anything replaced... I pitty anyone who has to put up with them.

youcancallmeal · 23-01-2006 12:49pm

A very defeatist attitude^^^

I'm working tech support at the moment and we are encouraged to use all means possible to fix problems, in whatever order we like

. We have access to remote connectivity with user's pc's and even after we've exhausted all avenues of approach we can ask other teams with expertise to advise the user. If a user was to provide me with suggestions for possible fixes I would be delighted, you learn something new everyday

. On the other hand though some people can barely turn their pc on.

Tech Support like most other things cant be painted with the same brush but I would definitely agree there are some companies tech support leave a lot to be desired.

Fenster · 23-01-2006 1:27pm

It makes sense to ask someone to reformat first, if you're just a Joe Blogs tech support guy. A lot of people make changes to their machine, install a different Windows, add/remove hardware or change drivers, or even have some sort of nasty spyware/virus that will crash their PC. A badly written rootkit comes to mind.

As companies aimed at home users generally don't have an abundance of geeks to hand that can identify and remedy the problem, they won't help you out unless the machine is in the factory state.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 23-01-2006 2:01pm

youcancallme>al wrote:

A very defeatist attitude^^

Well it's based on my personal experiences... some places are actually like that.
Keeping good stats (call duration, hold time, etc) are more important than actually solving the persons problem... bureaucracy at its very worst.
The only positive tech support experiences I've had (as an end-user) were with smaller companies who take the time to hire the right people who know their stuff inside-out... as opposed to the larger companies who seem to prefer the million-monkeys-on-a-million-typewriters approach... no doubt a cost-cutting measure to please the board members :rolleyes:
I wouldn't say I'm a defeatist... more a cynic who's been to the dark side

CiaranC · 23-01-2006 2:13pm

Look, tech support on an enterprise level scale is a logistical nightmare. You get the user up and running with the stuff you sold them, thats it. People who expect to be hand-held through retrieving their data off a crippled machine are delusional.

The OP here had to put a custom cooling solution in place to keep the machine from overheating - ie a household fan blowing into the open case!

When you have thousands of users, stuff like this simply is not possible. You rebuild the machines software, then if needed you replace any faulty hardware. You give the user back his machine as he was given it.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 2:19pm

CiaranC wrote:

Look, tech support on an enterprise level scale is a logistical nightmare. You get the user up and running with the stuff you sold them, thats it. People who expect to be hand-held through retrieving their data off a crippled machine are delusional.

The OP here had to put a custom cooling solution in place to keep the machine from overheating - ie a household fan blowing into the open case!

When you have thousands of users, stuff like this simply is not possible. You rebuild the machines software, then if needed you replace any faulty hardware. You give the user back his machine as he was given it.

It is a home user we are talking about not thousands of users, enterprize level scale will have backups in place, if the cooling solution works no matter how crazy it sounds, it proves its not software.

aidan_walsh · 23-01-2006 2:27pm

dbnavan wrote:

It is a home user we are talking about not thousands of users

I presume he meant call centres like Dell, which would recieve calls from thousands of home and business users on a daily basis.

dbnavan · 23-01-2006 2:29pm

aidan_walsh wrote:

I presume he meant call centres like Dell, which would recieve calls from thousands of home and business users on a daily basis.

`
They have different sections for home and business users,

aidan_walsh · 23-01-2006 2:31pm

dbnavan wrote:

`
They have different sections for home and business users,

Each of which will recieve thousands of calls.

'technical' support me ar*e

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