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Election

  • 03-02-2016 3:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭


    I've emailed all the candidates in my local area. The Labour and Fianna Fail candidates gave me boiler-plate copy/paste response. Labour seems to think revoking rule 68 was a HUUUUGE deal. The independent gave me a personal response and stated outright that he supports the separation of church and state.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    No point me e-mailing my local FF TD, I know he voted no on marriage equality as he publicly stated it, so I think I know what sort of viewpoints he likely holds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,942 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Fianna Fail are not going to give an answer that suggests the other side has done something right, and they are not going to commit themselves to commenting against it as they hope they may be in a position to have to do something about it.

    Labour are going to make a huge deal of it because it was Jan O'sullivan who repealed rule 68.

    The Independent picked up from you which way the wind blew and assured you he was blowing in the same direction.

    Its good that there are rumblings in the right direction, but I would not trust any of them till after the event.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Make your vote and pray,
    that he goes all the way.
    There's no time for tae,

    with Michael Healy-Rae.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    It would be lunacy to vote based on one or two topics or issues but...

    If secularism is your thing than evidently AAA/PBP, Sinn Fein and the Social Democrats have claimed and proven they are supporters by voting for the removal of Section 7.3(c) of the Equal Status Act 2000 last year and campaiging for pro-choice.

    FF/FG are terrified of the grey vote and will do f*ck all to progress secularism in any meaningful format.
    This has been shown in their attitudes to baptism in education.
    FFs recent education policy on religous discrimination merely tinkers with allowing local non-Catholics a preference above non-local catholic in school enrolement. No plans for dealing with religion during the school day. They simply do no understand the issue.
    FG have had a WALL of silence on the issue and shot down Jan O'Sullivan for mentioning it near an election campaign.

    Labour got some crumbs from the FG table with Rule 68 to shut up O'Sullivan and Quinn managed to get ET as a second level education patron but they probably won't have any seats this time around so meh.

    Social Democrats have actually stated the removal of Section 7.3(c) in their manifesto and the Repeal the 8th demand.
    You won't see either of those items in Renua's manifesto ;)


    Obviously you'd have to consider all the other ecomonic and social factors before voting but it's evident to me progression in secularism will be limited to concessions given to smaller coalition parties.
    It certainly won't be driven by Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.


    Oh and green party something something :D

    Social Democrats Manifesto

    Renua Manifesto

    Fianna Fail Education Policy 2016


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    I do like the sound of Social Democrats I have to say - they are basically what Labour Party SHOULD be


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,815 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I'm out of luck in my constituency (Meath West), Peadar Toibin is one of our TDs and the only TD from Sinn Fein to vote against the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, I have little faith that he'll support the divestment of schools, and he's probably going to top the polls. FF are only running one candidate (Shane Cassells) so I'd say he'd get over the line, leaving Ray Butler and Damien English (both FG) to fight it out for the final seat. The Social Democrats aren't fielding any candidates, and the sole Labour candidate lost her council seat in the last local election. The rest are either local issue candidates (Navan Hospital would be chief among these) or anti-IW candidates whose votes have been hoovered up by Toibin. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    We are spoiled for choice aren't we! They are all so feckin fabulous!


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Still registered in Ireland but can't get home to vote. Would most likely have given Katherine Zappone my first preference and generally leaned to the left with others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭westernfrenzy


    I'm out of luck in my constituency (Meath West), Peadar Toibin is one of our TDs and the only TD from Sinn Fein to vote against the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, I have little faith that he'll support the divestment of schools, and he's probably going to top the polls. FF are only running one candidate (Shane Cassells) so I'd say he'd get over the line, leaving Ray Butler and Damien English (both FG) to fight it out for the final seat. The Social Democrats aren't fielding any candidates, and the sole Labour candidate lost her council seat in the last local election. The rest are either local issue candidates (Navan Hospital would be chief among these) or anti-IW candidates whose votes have been hoovered up by Toibin. :(

    Personally, I think Toibin is the only semi decent politician in this constituency, despite the fact he did vote against that bill. He'll still probably get elected easily. I'd have loved a Social Democrat candidate here though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Still registered in Ireland but can't get home to vote. Would most likely have given Katherine Zappone my first preference and generally leaned to the left with others.

    Is she actually standing in the general election?

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Yup, running in Dublin South-West.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Yup, running in Dublin South-West.

    In the absence of any social democrats in the area she'll probably get my first vote as well, with remaining places going to Deirdre O’Donovan and the labour candidates. Paul Murphy also running in the area, so I guess I'll get barricaded into the house when I let him know I won't be voting for him. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    I've no SD candidates here either. We do have an impressive turn out of well fed conservative men in grey suits to pick from, bar the independents (only one of whom is not a) ranty about IW or b) perfectly happy with religious interference in State matters) and a green party surfer. Feel like my vote is spoiled already just by living in Clare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    smacl wrote: »
    In the absence of any social democrats in the area she'll probably get my first vote as well, with remaining places going to Deirdre O’Donovan and the labour candidates. Paul Murphy also running in the area, so I guess I'll get barricaded into the house when I let him know I won't be voting for him. :pac:
    Pretty much the same as me.
    Paul Murphy polled strongly in the bye-election, but he rode a good wave of annoyed people to get there. I'm not sure if that wave is still there, people are likely just completely sick of his nonsense.

    I'd be surprised if Zappone doesn't take a seat, if not the first seat in our constituency. O'Donovan and Lahart are the only two I've seen at all. I've never even received an annoying newsletter from any of the rest of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    I didn't start the thread but I'd politely suggest keep the thread to secular items relevant to the election and this forum.

    If you want to criticise/compliment politicians on all other topics there are heaps of threads on Boards for that :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Renua are happy with patronage going for the if it isnt broke dont fix it. The problem is it is broken for anyone who isn't baptised.

    http://www.lucindacreighton.ie/diversification-of-primary-school-provision-dail-statement/

    So if you don't want to be put to the bottom of the list for most schools then look elsewhere.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I didn't start the thread but I'd politely suggest keep the thread to secular items relevant to the election and this forum.

    But if you consider that the big parties aren't likely to have a clear majority, the new government will most likely be pandering to the minor players quite frequently, so who these people are really matters. As you said in your previous post 'it would be lunacy to vote based on one or two topics or issues', so following on from that given a candidates secular merits or lack thereof discussing what else posters in this forum like or dislike about them is meaningful on this forum as this forum provides context.

    For example, I won't be voting for Renua for primarily secular reasons, while I won't be voting for Paul Murphy regardless of his secular credentials. Similarly, I notice you dismiss Labour as you think they won't get any seats, so you're also guilty of discussing politics beyond the secular agenda (which is of course perfectly reasonable).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    smacl wrote: »
    For example, I won't be voting for Renua for primarily secular reasons, while I won't be voting for Paul Murphy regardless of his secular credentials. Similarly, I notice you dismiss Labour as you think they won't get any seats, so you're also guilty of discussing politics beyond the secular agenda (which is of course perfectly reasonable).

    That's exactly it - few of us will have the opportunity to vote for a candidate (still less a party) who stand up for secularism but who don't also have seriously flawed credentials in some other area important to each of us. Hence, it's the same balancing act as ever - do you vote for a pro-secular candidate who's party will definitely be in the running but who may not be a strong voice against the conservative elements in their party, or indeed a party who may get a new and better leader soon after coming to power, or do you vote for a band-wagon jumper who says all the right things, or an independent who's voice will only be heard on the whim of the leading government party....etc., etc.

    My biggest dilemma is whether to vote FF for the first time in my life, in the knowledge that the strongest candidate for leader after Micheál Martin might well manage to "come out" more publicly in favour of secular/pro-choice views if he's in a position to do so. Can't decide.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Shrap wrote: »
    My biggest dilemma is whether to vote FF for the first time in my life, in the knowledge that the strongest candidate for leader after Micheál Martin might well manage to "come out" more publicly in favour of secular/pro-choice views if he's in a position to do so. Can't decide.

    FF would be low down on my list, but it is a bit of a race to the bottom in that respect. Michael McGrath strikes me as a competent politician on the FF side, and similarly Leo for FG, but its not exactly a sea of shining lights in either party. In some ways I'd love to see FG team up with FF, as it would leave enough space for other nascent political parties to grow to a size where they had the critical mass to oppose the incumbents. I can't see any serious change happening until such time as we see an election where both FF and FF get truly hammered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    smacl wrote: »
    In some ways I'd love to see FG team up with FF, as it would leave enough space for other nascent political parties to grow to a size where they had the critical mass to oppose the incumbents. I can't see any serious change happening until such time as we see an election where both FF and FF get truly hammered.

    Yes, I'm thinking similarly. It's just a bit distressing that essentially we're playing a game that might only pan out 10 or 15 years down the road. It sounds an odd thing to do, to vote for a party so that they'll get into power, make an astounding mess, hopefully shed a few of the raging conservatives and see some new leaders coming up. Still though, the way I see it is that an FG and FF coalition couldn't possibly be worse than any other combination and as you say, will give time and space for a decent opposition to form (if such a thing is possible here - hoping the SD's will do well in that regard).

    I'm in favour of Timmy Dooley for FF by the way, but am finding it hard to forgive his party allegiances! Will probably just end up sending my one or two secular preferences his way as they get knocked out...


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Cork North Central have a splendid candidate in the the mellifluously-named Aislinn Tongue, massage therapist and all-round Independent.

    Together with a wish to repeal the 8th amendment to the Constitution, hotly contested by her twitter feed and maybe her facebook page, Aislinn also seems to want to stop the "educate together monopoly":

    http://www.thejournal.ie/election-2016/candidate/504/aislinn-tongue/

    I'm calling a Poe on Ms Tongue - at least the UK's Monster Raving Looney party could tell a joke!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm calling a Poe on Ms Tongue - at least the UK's Monster Raving Looney party could tell a joke!

    Hmm. Just a shame she/he isn't funny. Although one of her more amusing tweets is #coursing better for your kids than #facebook.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm calling a Poe on Ms Tongue - at least the UK's Monster Raving Looney party could tell a joke!

    Indeed, but would that be Nathan or Edgar Allen? What was it they used to say back in the day, 'I don't mind kissing but I don't like Tongue' ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm calling a Poe on Ms Tongue

    Dearie me. No longer sure if Poe, but fairly certain is thick as sh1t :confused:

    http://www.whichcandidate.ie/events/5/constituencies/18/candidates/705


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    robindch wrote: »
    Cork North Central have a splendid candidate in the the mellifluously-named Aislinn Tongue, massage therapist and all-round Independent.


    Here is a lovely response this lady sent this morning sent to a constituent enquiring on her stance against baptism for education.

    https://twitter.com/corkonian85/status/695534967380701184


    She is either unhinged, bored scallywag or the entire thing is a half decent prank. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Zamboni wrote: »

    She is either unhinged, bored scallywag or the entire thing is a half decent prank. :pac:

    I'm going with unhinged till I know more....


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,102 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    I think this is my favourite:

    "the last increase led to workers losing their job. a LOT of workers I know do NOT get paid min wage anyway let LABOUR name 1 person that got extra 3,000 / year from 1/2 euro rise please"

    3000/yr extra would need 6000 hours of work or 115 hours per week.

    I like her! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭human 19


    Judging by the FF response to the last "abortion" vote, the party TDs were split,so no whip was applied in order to avoid a split (schism?) .

    Therefore I assume their position, on matters ecumenical, would involve the deployment of a considerably large bargepole.

    I will therefore equip myself with a similar implement in relation to their candidates in the forthcoming election.

    Labour have only shown a wishy-washy attitude to the school denomination issue over the past years, so they are out, as far as I am concerned.

    Given the balance of social red-lines vs economic matters, the Soc Dems are the only ones who I would vote for this time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭human 19


    There are no soc dems in my constituency, but I went on to http://www.whichcandidate.ie and chose only the religion in schools and abortion sections to be questioned on.
    The answers of the candidates were compared to mine..
    Surprise, surprise, FF & FG had 0% comparison, labour, Green & SF all at 50%, and the AAA candidate came in at 100%.

    Hmmmm...maybe I will vote after all. I must run it again regarding economic policies. Im guessing he will get about 30%.

    EDIT: well he got 47% on the others so it looks like he will get my vote.
    Out of interest, Labour and FG got the top 3 positions, but there weren't any questions in there about how I feel about a) broken promises, b) hunting, c) giant quangos d) backing down in the face of vested interests.... so that probably influenced the results somewhat.

    My answer for the next 3 weeks..."Well I would have voted Soc Dems, but as they have no candidates in my area, I will be voting for the AAA candidate, because of his opinion on social policies"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    As an experiment I did a few goes at whichcandidate.ie
    I did right wing everything except for abortion and religion in schools. For the latter issues I went for for permissive and separation of church and state. The best match in the above scenario for three constituencies was 38%. In other words, in order to get a candidate that would match me at least 50% I would be required to go left wing on some of my social policies not just abortion and religion.


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