Many Irish in the British Army...

full_irish · 06-03-2012 7:06pm #1

I'm just wondering if there are (past or present) many of ye in the British forces (army, navy, air force) that are Irish?

Or someone in your family etc...

If so, what made you choose the British army and what have your experiences been??

What rank are ye out of interest?

p.s when I say Irish I am not referring to people who are Northern Irish. so please keep any of the "you're british" "no i'm not, i'm irish" ****e talk out of this thread.

NiallFH · 07-03-2012 12:17pm

full_irish wrote: »

p.s when I say Irish I am not referring to people who are Northern Irish. so please keep any of the "you're british" "no i'm not, i'm irish" ****e talk out of this thread.

You essentially brought it into this thread with your first post.

I would give a more useful comment but apparently a line on a map says im not entitled to.

DipStick McSwindler · 07-03-2012 12:20pm

This post has been deleted.

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 12:48pm

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's. promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland, and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

full_irish · 07-03-2012 1:30pm

NiallFH wrote: »

You essentially brought it into this thread with your first post.

I would give a more useful comment but apparently a line on a map says im not entitled to.

I was actually just trying to nip it in the bud. I've seen too many threads go off on a tangent because of the said topic. FYI, the reason I differentiated is down to if you're from the North, it wouldn't be perceived as unorthodox to join the British Army. And i'm not trying to rile you, just that I have quite a few acquittances from north the border in both the British and Irish army.

full_irish · 07-03-2012 1:36pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's.

What made you join the BA in the first place as opposed to DF? And why did you switch back?

promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland,

Is this to do with it being a larger army and actually be on active duty more often?
What were your respective ranks?

and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

Christ, I didn't think it would be as much as that.

bwatson · 07-03-2012 1:47pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's. promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland, and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

What do you mean, catholic regiment?

For someone who was a member of the modern British Army, you don't appear to know much about the modern British Army.

In the past there was more of an emphasis on recruiting its officers from catholic schools and institutions but this is not something that plays a role now. To blanket the Irish Guards as a catholic regiment is wrong.

OS119 · 07-03-2012 2:26pm

bwatson wrote: »

...To blanket the Irish Guards as a catholic regiment is wrong.

it depends on your view - and whether you've worked with 1RI recently!

i would say that despite 1RI being, undoubtedly, a more 'mixed' regiment than it looks, it has a pronounced flavour - that flavour being working class east and west Belfast. 1IG however doesn't have that, it - to me - had a more old world 'anglo-Irish' character that felt more 'Irish' than 1RI, despite it having more outsiders in it than 1RI.

all very subjective of course - but yes, i'd say that 1IG felt a bit like a 1900's Irish Regiment, whereas IRI is very definately a modern Northern Irish Regiment - more rural, more 'Catholic' (even if the stats say they're exactly the same) and i'd suggest that its officers are more 'guards' (and therefore perhaps a bit 'anglo-Irish'?) than the officers at 1RI who, one the whole struck me as people who didn't get into the Parachute Regiment.

as i say, all very subjective - but i know which i prefer!

NiallFH · 07-03-2012 2:56pm

full_irish wrote: »

FYI, the reason I differentiated is down to if you're from the North, it wouldn't be perceived as unorthodox to join the British Army.

I would have to disagree with that, I have known people who's families have disowned them for that very reason or recieved knocks on the door and told to get out of the estate 'or else'.

full_irish · 07-03-2012 3:29pm

NiallFH wrote: »

I would have to disagree with that, I have known people who's families have disowned them for that very reason or recieved knocks on the door and told to get out of the estate 'or else'.

Well then they are bigots living in the past.

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 4:21pm

bwatson wrote: »

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's. promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland, and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

What do you mean, catholic regiment?

For someone who was a member of the modern British Army, you don't appear to know much about the modern British Army.

In the past there was more of an emphasis on recruiting its officers from catholic schools and institutions but this is not something that plays a role now. To blanket the Irish Guards as a catholic regiment is wrong.

Meaning of catholic regiment,

The regiment is a mix of religions, and no mater what religion was more popular the irish guards alway have a catholic priest as padre and catholic mass is still attended by all soldiers and all religions evert Tuesday morning. Now back to promotions, because the army is bigger and there are many more post to be filled and also the more senior positions be it officer or senior nco have a two year limit (ish) another difference is in the defence forces you could hold a position let's say as BSM for 30 years maybe and that creates a back log. In the Uk if you reach RSM after 2 years you more likely to be commissioned to captain.

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 4:23pm

full_irish wrote: »

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's.

What made you join the BA in the first place as opposed to DF? And why did you switch back?

promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland,

Is this to do with it being a larger army and actually be on active duty more often?
What were your respective ranks?

and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

Christ, I didn't think it would be as much as that.

I joined the BA because at that time the Irish army wasn't taking on any more troops, so a bunch of us left the Then called F.C.A and joined up

tac foley · 07-03-2012 8:03pm

In MY time in the BA, I went from Private to WO2 in under twelve years, was a WO1 for a month, got commissioned, and left as an acting Lt Col.

Mind you, I paid for it with hard work. THIS plastic paddy gave 110%.

tac

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 8:11pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's. promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland, and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

How can they be the Largest regiment with One battalion ?

The Rifles have 5 battalions.

30-40% would mean around 150-200 soldiers are from southern Ireland, its more like around 60-80 tops.

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 8:17pm

OS119 wrote: »

it depends on your view - and whether you've worked with 1RI recently!

i would say that despite 1RI being, undoubtedly, a more 'mixed' regiment than it looks, it has a pronounced flavour - that flavour being working class east and west Belfast. 1IG however doesn't have that, it - to me - had a more old world 'anglo-Irish' character that felt more 'Irish' than 1RI, despite it having more outsiders in it than 1RI.

all very subjective of course - but yes, i'd say that 1IG felt a bit like a 1900's Irish Regiment, whereas IRI is very definately a modern Northern Irish Regiment - more rural, more 'Catholic' (even if the stats say they're exactly the same) and i'd suggest that its officers are more 'guards' (and therefore perhaps a bit 'anglo-Irish'?) than the officers at 1RI who, one the whole struck me as people who didn't get into the Parachute Regiment.

as i say, all very subjective - but i know which i prefer!

The Irish Guards are historically a second and third generation Irish in Britain regiment with some southern Irish and a few northeners with thrown in as well as commonwealth immigrants and Anglo-Irish officers, it has more in common culturally with the London Irish rifles then the RIR, nor is it a NI regiment, its always been based in London or nr London when at home.

Its far more culturally southern Irish friendly then the RIR.

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 8:36pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

IrishGuard wrote: »

Hi full Irish,

As a former member of the british army and a current member of the Defence Forces, i know quite abit about this subject, my time in the BA was great i traveled the world and made friend for life even more-so than in the DF's. promotion is very easy in the uk if you want it, unlike ireland, and the largest battalion in the british army is now the Irish Guards (catholic regiment)with which would say a great deal of it made up of southern Irish maybe 30 - 40%

How can they be the Largest regiment with One battalion ?

The Rifles have 5 battalions.

30-40% would mean around 150-200 soldiers are from southern Ireland, its more like around 60-80 tops.

I didn't say largest regiment, I said battalion as the have more people than required in one unit and I'm aware that other regiments have more battalions!

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 8:51pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

OS119 wrote: »

it depends on your view - and whether you've worked with 1RI recently!

i would say that despite 1RI being, undoubtedly, a more 'mixed' regiment than it looks, it has a pronounced flavour - that flavour being working class east and west Belfast. 1IG however doesn't have that, it - to me - had a more old world 'anglo-Irish' character that felt more 'Irish' than 1RI, despite it having more outsiders in it than 1RI.

all very subjective of course - but yes, i'd say that 1IG felt a bit like a 1900's Irish Regiment, whereas IRI is very definately a modern Northern Irish Regiment - more rural, more 'Catholic' (even if the stats say they're exactly the same) and i'd suggest that its officers are more 'guards' (and therefore perhaps a bit 'anglo-Irish'?) than the officers at 1RI who, one the whole struck me as people who didn't get into the Parachute Regiment.

as i say, all very subjective - but i know which i prefer!

The Irish Guards are historically a second and third generation Irish in Britain regiment with some southern Irish and a few northeners with thrown in as well as commonwealth immigrants and Anglo-Irish officers, it has more in common culturally with the London Irish rifles then the RIR, nor is it a NI regiment, its always been based in London or nr London when at home.

Its far more culturally southern Irish friendly then the RIR.

Also 30 40% is about right as there was about 10% when I was in 10 years ago and I still know a lot of troops in there and have been informed that it's go e true the roof with that amount of southerns there,

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 8:52pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

I didn't say largest regiment, I said battalion as the have more people than required in one unit and I'm aware that other regiments have more battalions!

Ok, the Irish Guards which has 1 battalion has around 550 men.

Do you have a link to prove otherwise ?

28 Field Regiment RE, which is 1 battalion had around 800 men.

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 8:56pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

Also 30 40% is about right as there was about 10% when I was in 10 years ago and I still know a lot of troops in there and have been informed that it's go e true the roof with that amount of southerns there,

30-40% would mean around 180-220 out of a battalion of 550, thats not true.

There are only around 400 southern Irish in the whole of the UKs armed forces.

IrishGuard · 07-03-2012 9:19pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

IrishGuard wrote: »

I didn't say largest regiment, I said battalion as the have more people than required in one unit and I'm aware that other regiments have more battalions!

Ok, the Irish Guards which has 1 battalion has around 550 men.

Do you have a link to prove otherwise ?

28 Field Regiment RE, which is 1 battalion had around 800 men.

Dude I don't meet a link to prove it, I live in the real world, i have friend in the recruiting team, I also know the bn commander, and I'm a member of the Irish guard association. So trust me when I saying my info is good. Also the regiment you talk about is not infantry. And just because a battalion a establishment of 800 men, it does not mean they don't have more in the barrack and holding other posting in the army, ie infantry training centre or attached to 2 para etc. Also not following this conversation anymore arguing over swings and roundabouts

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 10:11pm

IrishGuard wrote: »

Dude I don't meet a link to prove it, I live in the real world, i have friend in the recruiting team, I also know the bn commander, and I'm a member of the Irish guard association. So trust me when I saying my info is good. Also the regiment you talk about is not infantry. And just because a battalion a establishment of 800 men, it does not mean they don't have more in the barrack and holding other posting in the army, ie infantry training centre or attached to 2 para etc. Also not following this conversation anymore arguing over swings and roundabouts

The claim 30-40% in the Irish guards are born in the republic is not true.

They are a battalion of around 550 men, ie a standard Guards battalion.

Why would they be bigger then other Guard regiments battalions ? Like the Welsh, Scots etc ?

full_irish · 07-03-2012 10:16pm

tac foley wrote: »

THIS plastic paddy gave 110%.

tac

Statistically not possible :P

Also IrishGuard and Crusader, may I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this?

tac foley · 07-03-2012 10:44pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

30-40% would mean around 180-220 out of a battalion of 550, thats not true.

There are only around 400 southern Irish in the whole of the UKs armed forces.

That's interesting - the latest figures I've read suggest at least ten times that number.

tac

cruasder777 · 07-03-2012 10:58pm

tac foley wrote: »

That's interesting - the latest figures I've read suggest at least ten times that number.

tac

4,000 born in the republic in the UK armed forces ?

Where did you read that ?

3 years ago it was around 400, up by 20% on 2006.

http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/ireland/irish-in-british-military.htm

On 1 April 2006, there were only 325 people in total from the Republic in the British military, 215 in the Army, 50 in the Navy and 60 in the Air Force, that is, roughly 1 in 500 of the Army, 1 in 1000 of the Navy and 1 in 1000 of the Air Force, were from the Republic. This was revealed in a written answer in the House of Commons on 5 June 2006 [5], which sets out in detail the extraordinary numbers of non-British people in the British forces, particularly in the Army.

full_irish · 07-03-2012 11:12pm

cheers for actually providing some form of proof as to where you're getting your numbers from. Too many figures appearing from nowhere...

tac foley · 08-03-2012 10:17am

full_irish wrote: »

cheers for actually providing some form of proof as to where you're getting your numbers from. Too many figures appearing from nowhere...

+1 on that.

I was relying on figures from my local ACIO staff, rather than those of a biased analyst with an axe to grind.

'There are lies, damned lies, and statistics', somebody once said.

I'll do a bit more digging around, all the Irish men and women who keep disappearing from the Ould Sod to join the British Armed Forces MUST be going somewhwere....they can't ALL be joining the FFL.

tac

beco2010 · 08-03-2012 12:34pm

i thought this to be the right thrad to ask the question as it is about irish in the BA. my question is there truth behind the the old statment of THE IRISH ARE SENT OUT FIRST i only ask this cos i myself have went about joining the BA in the end i didnt join for my own reasons but while i was going trough the process all i could hear from others is my question the irish are sent out first i am not trying to start an argument i still hear even now any time i bring up the fact i went for the BA

OS119 · 08-03-2012 12:59pm

beco2010 wrote: »

i thought this to be the right thrad to ask the question as it is about irish in the BA. my question is there truth behind the the old statment of THE IRISH ARE SENT OUT FIRST i only ask this cos i myself have went about joining the BA in the end i didnt join for my own reasons but while i was going trough the process all i could hear from others is my question the irish are sent out first i am not trying to start an argument i still hear even now any time i bring up the fact i went for the BA

whoever says that is a liar, and whoever believes it is a moron.

the UK has two 'spearhead' formations - 16AA Bde and 3Cdo Bde - which, on the whole, are the first units to be deployed to any particular conflict. 1RI is a constituant part of 16X, but its the 'roundout' unit, not one of the parachute Bn's - its job is to fight, but its not intended to be the first unit of the Bde into action. its soldiers don't do P Coy, don't do the BPC, and aren't recruited or trained in the same way as the Parachute Regiment Bn's.

i'm fairly sure that the BA hasn't used an Irish unit as the spearhead force since WW2 - of course all of the units involved in combat operations do so publicly, all of this stuff - which units did what - is publicly available, so i'm amazed that there's anyone stupid enough to actually believe the kind of crap that some - no doubt poltically motivated - come out with.

unless of course this is the same kind of idiocy which says that the BA has formed units of orphans and the friendless who's deaths/maimings can be denied because no one asks about them...?

beco2010 · 08-03-2012 1:13pm

thanks didnt say i beleaved it. i didnt but it is said
if your irish you will be canon fada un true i know, this is the only reason i asked, as i keep leaning more and more to joining every day

DipStick McSwindler · 08-03-2012 1:22pm

This post has been deleted.

beco2010 · 08-03-2012 1:28pm

feeney92 wrote: »

Oh please God make it stop!!
I found that post ridiculously hard to read.
Please use fulls stops and commas!!

Ok teacher!!!!!!!!!!!

Many Irish in the British Army...

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