Johnstown Kennedy House, Rathcoole

telekon wrote: »

If you're finished your "rant" and bothered to read the OP, you would find that the main focus of the thread was on how was this allowed to happen by the powers that be? In this case, the old Dublin County Council.

The building wasn't even on the RPS which is a bloody joke. And I stick by my opinion that people who decide to purchase buildings of national architectural importance just to knock them down for a quick buck are absolute bastards of the highest order. No respect whatsoever for the country's built heritage and yes, they should be utterly ashamed of themselves. If it was left to rot, at least it would have left a beautiful ruin.

That's my rant over.

I did read the OP and found your comments both offensive and unrealistic. Nor is there a date on the photo you used– it certainly is not from the era the house was demolished, so it is totally misleading. The house gets a couple of lines mention in Bence-Jones’ book, no photo and is described simply as ‘a plain three-storey house’. Were it ’left to rot’ as you suggest it would create a serious liability for its owners, as there are many people out there who would be happy to sue for damage from fallen masonry, etc. Most people cannot afford to be in the business of populating the countryside with picturesque ruins for the enjoyment of others.

You described the owners as ‘cretins’ but that choice of term does little for your post or your argument. How do you know that they decided ‘ to purchase buildings of national architectural importance just to knock them down for a quick buck ‘ ??
I have little time for most developers and am not a defender of county councils – I would merge or abolish most of them – they are bloated bureaucracies that achieve little other than pay themselves fat salaries. (Dun Laoghaire Rathdown is a typical example; they are slowly killing that town through aggressive parking wardens, high commercial rates and no facilities. Go look at it.)

I am in favour of preserving ‘heritage’ buildings when it is right and feasible to do so. That has to have a measure of realism built into it. We cannot preserve everything just because somebody decides it is ‘heritage.’ A time comes to a house, just like a family pet, when the kindest thing is to put it down. Nobody likes doing that but it has to be done and accepted.

With regard to your claim to be a listed home-owner, it adds nothing to the debate as you hide behind anonymity.Taking your comments on insurance, for starters, AIB is a bank and not an insurance company so it is not insuring your home. It is ‘an intermediary’ and if you look at your policy it will tell you that the insurer is AXA. If you did not declare that your home is a protected structure (PS) you do not have insurance cover. FWIW, Axa does not insure PSs. I know, because I do own one and have painful experience and knowledge of what is involved in obtaining home insurance and its cost. RSA in Ireland will under duress provide insurance for a PS, but only if it is mortgaged to and proposed by an existing group scheme – e.g. via Bank of Ireland Mortgages as an intermediary.

I repeat my suggestion in my earlier post - if you really care about protected structures start (or join) a lobby group to exempt listed buildings from property tax, or allow tax offset on insurance or to provide decent grants to restore heritage buildings. It is easy to write complaining about heritage destruction, it is quite something else do something about it.

arachne wrote: »

Taralahm's post is factually wrong in many places - it's true that a Rococo ceiling from Johnstown Kennedy House was salvaged (and was installed by Arthur Gibney in the hall of the north entrance of Dr Steevens' Hospital, beside Heuston Station). The very fact that such a ceiling existed in such good condition contradicts the claim that the building remained 'only as a facade', and at least casts doubt on any claim that it could have been riddled with dry rot 'from the roof joists to the floorboards'. I spoke with a figure from An Taisce about Johnstown Kennedy House - he flatly dismissed the idea that the house was riddled with dry rot. He also poured scorn on the idea that nothing in the house was of architectural or historic value. To pedroeibar1 I say it's perfectly reasonable to say, that if someone has no interest in maintaining a building or historical or architectural merit, then don't buy it and don't destroy it. I also live in a listed building - the problems in maintaining them depend a lot on their size and their condition but it's not as much of a burden as is often made out. It's a very common tactic for someone who wants to get rid of an old building to say that it's riddled with dry rot - the Presbyterian church made this claim about the Church they wanted to (and did) demolish on Tritonville Road in Sandymount in 1999 - it was independently surveyed and found to be in excellent condition. I have a picture of the ceiling but can't post it because of spam rules boards.ie has for members with less than 25 posts

It would be nice to see the ceiling photo, why not email it to a Mod who surely would oblige by posting it for you? Then we can judge….. But a “quote” from an unnamed Taisce person is useless without source references – Why not post the extract from their report? Why the dig at what the the poor old Presbyterians did nearly 20 years ago? Again, where is your source? Why resurrect a thread from more than a year ago and add nothing of substance?

If you had bothered to read my earlier posts instead of selectively picking a phrase out of one of them you would see that I support conservation but I am a realist and not a dreamer. The final straw is for you to have praised Arthur, to be commended for saving said above-mentioned ceiling. Does that exonerate what he and Sam did to 16 Georgian buildings demolished to make way for the ESB HQ excrescence and the breaking up one of the foremost Georgian streetscapes in these islands? Or that he was behind the demolition of five interesting Victorian houses to facilitate Fitzwilliam Lawn Tennis Club. Oh, and don’t forget his role in the first stage of the Civic Offices. Or the CBI building on Dame St. Or their redbrick pillbox offices on Bride Street.

Their old friends in FF, politicos like Blayney & CJH & Ray Burke and Liamy Lawlor facilitated both them and their developers, Blayney when-Minister for Local Government signing an order granting full planning permission for the ESB offices THE DAY BEFORE a new Planning Act came into effect thereby nailing the fate of Georgian Dublin. I will leave you with an earlier post -

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I am in favour of preserving ‘heritage’ buildings when it is right and feasible to do so. That has to have a measure of realism built into it. We cannot preserve everything just because somebody decides it is ‘heritage.’ A time comes to a house, just like a family pet, when the kindest thing is to put it down. Nobody likes doing that but it has to be done and accepted.……………I repeat my suggestion in my earlier post - if you really care about protected structures start (or join) a lobby group to exempt listed buildings from property tax, or allow tax offset on insurance or to provide decent grants to restore heritage buildings. It is easy to write complaining about heritage destruction, it is quite something else do something about it.

It’s acceptable to look for source material when claims on specific events are made – I was not in the country from the late ‘80’s to the noughties and obviously have gaps. As for dry rot, sadly I am all too aware of it and how rapidly it spreads – and the spores are not visible and will come back to haunt you. Eamonn Markey made a lot out of me back in the day.

arachne wrote: »

Anyone not prepared to maintain or repair a historic building of architectural merit shouldn't buy one. I haven't heard any good rebuttal of that argument.

I agree, and would not repudiate that. However, as anyone who owned/owns a historic building can vouch, what is visible on the surface is one thing and what lies beneath is another, and what can happen very quickly can be an eye-opener. Back to my family pet analogy.

The real issue with old buildings is cost. We in Ireland should have a proper classification system, with financial support for the preservation of key buildings and a realistic approach to heritage preservation. Sadly it is not a priority, and the peasant-culture thinking in Ireland is “Why should we help rich b@st@rds preserve their fancy West Brit Landlord houses!” Which sadly was the view of many politicians on the destruction associated with building the ESB HQ.

arachne wrote: »

.......Arthur Gibney's crimes of the 1960s? (I'm well aware of both his and Sam Stephenson's repertoire - which both later repudiated.)

I never heard Sam or Arthur repudiate their work, ever.