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Scientology Perceptions & Myths

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  • 28-01-2010 6:23pm
    #1
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭


    Following another thread I've a few questions about Scientology myths (Apologies if this should be in another forum).

    I've heard many things over the years from friends/media/boards.... about Scientology and there's some stuff that I took for granted but now I'm not so sure.

    I understand the basic concept (thanks to South Park & Wikipedia! Seriously though I've looked up other resources on the net) but my question is about the Scientologists.

    Can you talk negatively about Scientology in public without the threat of being sued. I've heard that they are notorious for perusing anyone and everyone who speaks ill of Scientology.

    Also only Scientologists can post about Scientology. I heard something was trademarked or something to that tune so this gives them a legal stance.

    Also is it true that they give a portion of their income to the 'church'?

    My view of Scientology (as a 'religion') is that of a bully secretive society with the backing of powerful people (lawyers etc....) with little tolerance for outsiders. That's how I see it and to be honest Scientologists haven't done much to rectify this view.

    (Now I'm open minded, I'm not bashing scientology or religion - I just want to know how true this myths and perceptions are and if anyone has any)


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Comments

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    #2
    Wazdakka
    Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Wazdakka


    They're all batshít mental.

    Just like the other religions.


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    #3
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    wyrn wrote: »
    Now I'm open minded, I'm not bashing scientology or religion

    Allow me...


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    #4
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,152 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Xenu, the alien, lives under a volcano.

    There is Scientology in a nutshell.

    The followers of Scientology are nutjobs, in a nutshell.


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    #5
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Mindhead

    Happy premise #1: There are no aliens.
    Happy premise #2: There is no giant foot trying to squash me.
    Happy premise #3: Even though I feel like I might ignite, I probably won't.


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    #6
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I like going into their offices on Abbey Street in Dublin and singing rebel songs at them.

    Just for yucks, y'know?


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    #7
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    When their babies are born they have to be born into complete silence.

    Dunno if this is relevant...but wtf.


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    #8
    fuelinjection
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭fuelinjection


    We can laugh at them but there is a real damage to the people that are trapped in the cult. Not to mention the families and friends that refuse to join and are kept away from their loved one.
    The Scientology organisation has impressive muscle worldwide, lots of money, lawyers, volunteers and a slick media interface. This has been recognised by Court cases against them in Germany and France. If you are recognised as a Church then you pay no tax, so this is their current aim for formal recognition.

    But do a bit of reading into it and I promise you will run a mile from their so-called science.

    I highly recommend Irishman John Duignan's book 'The Complex' - you can get it in Eason's and you will not laugh at Tom Cruise and John Travolta again. Scary stuff.

    http://www.eason.ie/look/9781903582848/Complex/John-Duignan


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    #9
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Wazdakka wrote: »
    They're all batshít mental.

    I'd agree with you on that part. From what I have seen over the years they are a nasty, litigious bunch of creepy people preying on the psychologically vulnerable.


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    #10
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    For what it's worth I find it hard to understand why people join them. I can understand from the point of view of a depressed person being pulled in my a cult or a Hollywood actor out of touch with reality but it seems that alot of ordinary people and people of power/influence get pulled in too.

    To me the plot sounds like a Scf-Fi novel and the fact that L. Ron Hubbard was a writer..............

    I laugh at the whole idea of it but I worry too about.
    I must read that book about the Irish guy who left. I heard him on the radio promoting it and it seems fascinating. Can't for the life of me remember his name.

    EDIT: Cheers fuelinjection - that's the one I was looking for


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    #11
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    wyrn wrote: »
    Following another thread I've a few questions about Scientology myths (Apologies if this should be in another forum).

    I've heard many things over the years from friends/media/boards.... about Scientology and there's some stuff that I took for granted but now I'm not so sure.

    I understand the basic concept (thanks to South Park & Wikipedia! Seriously though I've looked up other resources on the net) but my question is about the Scientologists.

    (1) Can you talk negatively about Scientology in public without the threat of being sued. I've heard that they are notorious for perusing anyone and everyone who speaks ill of Scientology.

    (2)     Also only Scientologists can post about Scientology. I heard something was trademarked or something to that tune so this gives them a legal stance.

    (3) Also is it true that they give a portion of their income to the 'church'?

    My view of Scientology (as a 'religion') is that of a bully secretive society with the backing of powerful people (lawyers etc....) with little tolerance for outsiders. That's how I see it and to be honest Scientologists haven't done much to rectify this view.

    (Now I'm open minded, I'm not bashing Scientology or religion - I just want to know how true this myths and perceptions are and if anyone has any)

    (1) Yes, you can within normal legal limits.
    A person in Scientology - and in anyone in general - can talked generally about anything as long as a named individual is not verbally/orally attacked (slander) in the wrong, not written about in the wrong in printed format (liable) or indeed ridiculed to the point of a derogatory image being painted of them.
    In other words, if your saying/posting/claiming something, just like the boards, you need to be able to back up what is done by yourself.
    This can be done immediately in some cases such as some media outlets call for or later on in the confines of a court room.
    - thats the short version.

    Head scientology directors are absolutely ruthless in the pursuant of those that oppose them. They have a huge litigation building in Clearwater, Florida alone for dealing with courts. Be they trying to silence individuals or groups, ban books opposing them, alter or close websites, take on governments, infiltrate them or blacken scores of people's reputations to their advantage, the Scientology cult don't stop at just saying "please don't disagree with us"

    (2) For a long time and still to a certain extent part of their "bible" was/is copyrighted. The part that actually is re-told in the Southpark Scientology episode (HERE to download. The makers of Southpark have no problem with those that wish to view it.) is a summary of what they tried to (and still do) hide from the newer members.
    Supposing your a new possible member at the door of a scientology building, if you heard the story that we are all invaded with alien "beings" who were killed after a planet was atomic bombed and some were transported to earth and thrown into a volcano and their "ghosts" now are inside us, would you still enter the building?

    Not until your sucked in for many, many years, have spent thousands and gone through many mind altering processes to make your mind more accessible to the wackier side of strange stories, do you finally get as a well indoctrinated and altered mind altered member to have revealed to you the part of their "bible" that they want to keep from newbies.
    Its this section that they tried to hide and copyright. Sadly for them, the internet and the world press thought different and exposed the rubbish for what it is.
    The scientologist Org though still disputes the printing of it though.

    (3) Initially they take a percentage. After you "in" it awhile they "convince" you to give more - as well as the mind altering courses that they convince you to take (which you have to pay increasing amounts for as you go higher and higher)
    Other religions for example: The Church of Latter Day Saints also ask that you give 10% but it is an optional payment and they do nothing to put pressure on a person to actually get them to cough up.

    Want to learn more? Start here: http://www.xenu.net/

    Others:
    www.factnet.org

    www.scientologywatch.org

    www.suppressiveperson.org/

    www.spaink.net

    www.snafu.de/~tilman/

    www.narconon-exposed.org

    www.studytech.org

    www.modemac.com

    www.truthaboutscientology.com

    www.scientology-lies.com

    www.lermanet.com

    www.freedomofmind.com

    www.altreligionscientology.org

    www.xenutv.com


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    #12
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just another brainwashing cult, no different than Catholicism or Judaism or any other religious faith.


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    #13
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I like going into their offices on Abbey Street in Dublin and singing rebel songs at them.

    Just for yucks, y'know?

    that's a good idea for a flash mob!!


  • Options
    #14
    bluto63
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭bluto63


    wyrn wrote: »
    Following another thread I've a few questions about Scientology myths (Apologies if this should be in another forum).

    I've heard many things over the years from friends/media/boards.... about Scientology and there's some stuff that I took for granted but now I'm not so sure.

    I understand the basic concept (thanks to South Park & Wikipedia! Seriously though I've looked up other resources on the net) but my question is about the Scientologists.

    Can you talk negatively about Scientology in public without the threat of being sued. I've heard that they are notorious for perusing anyone and everyone who speaks ill of Scientology.

    Also only Scientologists can post about Scientology. I heard something was trademarked or something to that tune so this gives them a legal stance.

    Also is it true that they give a portion of their income to the 'church'?

    My view of Scientology (as a 'religion') is that of a bully secretive society with the backing of powerful people (lawyers etc....) with little tolerance for outsiders. That's how I see it and to be honest Scientologists haven't done much to rectify this view.

    (Now I'm open minded, I'm not bashing scientology or religion - I just want to know how true this myths and perceptions are and if anyone has any)

    Oooooooh you're in for it now then


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    #15
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    Cheers Biggins. You've confirmed all that I thought.

    A relation of mine was approached to take a personality test so he did (to kill time, to get out of the rain & out of interest) - basically he was told that he needed to take a course immediatlety and buy all the books etc....

    He went to leave and they guy tried to stop him. I think he might have 'genuinely' been concerned for his well being. So my relation emptied out his pockets which had about 50 pence and said if I really need help this is all I can afford. Naturally they let him leave.

    It's frightening how much power they hold. I think they've stealthily grown over the years. I think it's about time someone (a government) really looked into it.

    I think the big debate over whether or not it's a religion needs to be battled.


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    #16
    fuelinjection
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭fuelinjection


    walshb wrote: »
    Just another brainwashing cult, no different than Catholicism or Judaism or any other religious faith.

    Not true, although I respect your option to not support any religion. That is your choice and right, and I never heard of any Churches who will aggressively come after you with phone calls, emails, and door visits.

    A cult is not a Church.
    If you want to tear into any individual Churches belief system then go ahead. Try and do the same with Scientology though and you are going to get their attention.


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    #17
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    Actually another stupid question but is Scientology is recognised religion in Ireland?


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    #18
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,059 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    wyrn wrote: »
    Actually another stupid question but is Scientology is recognised religion in Ireland?

    No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology#Republic_of_Ireland

    Does that even matter though? It'd only help them tax wise.. They can target and exploit people regardless of whether they're a recognised religion or not


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    #19
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    My name is URL wrote: »
    No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology#Republic_of_Ireland

    Does that even matter though? It'd only help them tax wise.. They can target and exploit people regardless of whether they're a recognised religion or not

    100% true.
    Their new tactic is to infiltrate schools from those of an early age. Tried it in Trinity college grounds, English schools, French and Germany creshes even.
    And if they can't or don't want to be seen doing it in their own name which is now notorious, they set up a new organisation with a new name espousing the same crap.
    And if that don't work, they set-up their own young infants schools and indoctrinate them from 2/3 onwards.
    For example:
    Scientologist propaganda sent to 'most schools in Australia'

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/23/2750110.htm


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    #20
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    wyrn wrote: »
    A relation of mine was approached to take a personality test so he did (to kill time, to get out of the rain & out of interest) - basically he was told that he needed to take a course immediatlety and buy all the books etc....

    He went to leave and they guy tried to stop him.
    It's frightening how much power they hold. I think they've stealthily grown over the years. I think it's about time someone (a government) really looked into it.

    .

    This is indeed one of their dangerous methods of luring vulnerable people into their cult. Their 'personality' tests are designed in such a way to highlight the vulnerabilities we all have, before taking into account situations and periods of life difficulty people may be experiencing.

    They offer the ideal of immediate support, company, 'solutions' to problems etc, that all cults offer and the slide into alienation from family & friends and brainwashing is subtle but quick and all encompassing.

    They are a cult I would like to see run out of Ireland. While I personally agree that all religions are cults to one extent or another, scientology is a particularly insidious, dangerous and parasitic cult.


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    #21
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    It is a horrible cult, but it not much different to Chrisitianity pre-Constantine. I love the way Christians criticise Scientology for being a cult which breaks up families, brainwashes its converts through clever forms of manipulation and forces them to hand over their wealth to the community when this is exactly how their own religion started. Christianity in the early centuries was just as despised by normal, decent people as Scientology is today, and for very similar reasons.


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    #22
    pretty-in-pink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭pretty-in-pink


    I did the test, they didn't want me :(

    They did however want me to send any friends of mine who might need life guidance to them. I mean wtf, they are meant to try get everyone. My little fun adventure to get out of the cold and to get to to say "no thanks" when they tried to recruit me didn't work.

    So there ya go, I was rejected by scientology.


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    #23
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    This thread belongs in the 'Crazy as **** pseudo-religion' forum.

    There is one, right?


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    #24
    wyrn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,977 ✭✭✭wyrn


    Yeah my relation had no intention of joining - he was just really curious. He's not a religious man at all so there was no chance of them getting him.

    A friend of mine took or saw one of the personality tests and he said that all the answers were in some way negative so no matter how you answered you would always end up with a 'bad' result.

    I am tolerant of other peoples beliefs and faiths but if I had a friend who started talking about ailens and being the only person who can help at the scene of a crash I would be bringing them down to the doctor.

    The more I read (thanks Biggins for the links) the more and more sinister it becomes. It's truly worrying.


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    #25
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    fuelinjection wrote: »
    Not true, although I respect your option to not support any religion. That is your choice and right, and I never heard of any Churches who will aggressively come after you with phone calls, emails, and door visits.

    A cult is not a Church.
    If you want to tear into any individual Churches belief system then go ahead. Try and do the same with Scientology though and you are going to get their attention.

    You don't think the Catholic Church ever tried to convert? There's more to conversion and brainwashing than emails and door knocks


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    #26
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    Charco wrote: »
    It is a horrible cult,

    Tommy Davis (Spokesperson of the Church of Scientology) really doesn't like it when you call it a cult..

    This is the Panorama special in full..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuJlZ_f1594

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdCBeMlLTSQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FCfO741sr4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_MLq7mwac


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    #27
    me_right_one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    walshb wrote: »
    You don't think the Catholic Church ever tried to convert? There's more to conversion and brainwashing than emails and door knocks

    But in all fairness, did the Catholic Church ever try to stop anyone from leaving?


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    #28
    citizen_p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    we studied this as a cult in school....go to their site and lookup the video on the founder.

    apparently hes amazing ....an eagle scout at 13 omg wow.....

    but the just gloss over the main part...it goes he wrote...comedys... fiction and some romances....

    not that he was obsessed with science fiction.



    ohh and all the videos on the site are imaculate quality and very unbelivable that they are real people. all good looking etc... kinda like the sensydyne ads on the telly


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    #29
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    me_right_one wrote: »
    But in all fairness, did the Catholic Church ever try to stop anyone from leaving?

    Do you mean apart from all the heresy trials and the religious wars in Europe during the Reformation?


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    #30
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    me_right_one wrote: »
    But in all fairness, did the Catholic Church ever try to stop anyone from leaving?

    Don't you think that that is an impossible thing to know. I would bet it damn well did.
    Jeez, many towns ostracized folks who didn't go to church for chrissake.

    Anyway, this Scientology is a cult, as is any religion. Dress it up any way you want, but religion is a belief system based on the mind, tricking the mind, manipulating the mind and confusing the mind.


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    #31
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    me_right_one wrote: »
    But in all fairness, did the Catholic Church ever try to stop anyone from leaving?

    Yes


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