N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

The only realistically safe route for traffic to go to Ardee and beyond without having to pay the toll will be through the main R132 route over the bridge of peace in Drogheda. Or perhaps through Navan, but then use the rather poor roads between the N2 and N3. Which leads me to the Stackallen bridge. I propose anyone discussing this as an alternative to look at the google maps images of the roads in the area before seriously suggesting it. And the bridge at Oldbridge is not even theoretically possible for use for HGVs between the 3 tonne weight restriction on the bridge and how the canal bridge a little further up that road would need to be entirely rebuilt also before larger trucks could even turn on it. And the road infrastructure between Oldbridge and Drogheda on the southern side would also need significant work and widening in various cases, either to bring it to the Donore road or to bring it to the Rathmullen road.

Now those situations are all dependent on there being an EU-level decision ensuring some provision of an alternative route for roads. And what counts as an alternative route or not (i.e. how far out if the way it is).

The inspector's report words the issue in quite a particular way. He explored it from the angle of whether a HGV ban would work or not and appeared to exhaust this issue before putting it to the board. But ABP will have an awkward situation if a detailed traffic study does take place and demonstrates exactly what residents in general have claimed. That there is a somewhat significant level of HGV traffic going through Slane.

Also, I cannot fathom why Monument claimed that a HGV ban was not considered in the planning application. The letter from Meath Co. Co.'s director of infrastructure shows it was at least considered and subsequently dismissed. Even if a survey wasn't conducted. And no one needs an origin/destination survey to see that Roadstone's traffic will in all likelihood need to pass through Slane.

Dear God, are we still at the Fianna Fail crap?

Fine Gael/Labour government. Have you noticed?!

It's actually pitiful at this stage. Keep throwing the mud though, because more is sticking to you than anyone else. You're demonstrating the calibre of your arguments (or lack thereof).

Nope, just bored. Been there, done this, regularly. You need to start singing a different tune, it's extremely boring. :rolleyes:

Photo taken outside the building where Biffo attended a meeting, as per Tuathal's photo. Note the unanimous outpouring of support for our Dear and Glorious Leader from the Fianna Fail Bypass Slane Committee.



No? Me neither.

tuathal wrote: »

Touchy toucy. Did I hit a nerve?

This has all been very well documented by Save Newgrange, who have a refernced timeline of events, showing the abnormalities in the decision-making process that took place in relation to the decision to proceed with the bypass.

I don't think having FF in govt or FG in govt has any relevance to the objective merits of building a bypass or not.

tuathal wrote: »

Sorry, but you are grossly misinformed on this one. The NRA, in the EIS, called the UNESCO World Heritage Site "Newgrange/Bru na Boinne." The name refers to the entire site,, not the single tomb.

The bypass was to run within 500m of the boundary. That is why this has been refused by An Bord Pleanala - like it or not...

You see, this is the crux of the whole thing.

The bypass is 3.5 km away from Newgrange.

Yet Tuathal will still get engaged in semantics like this to pretend Newgrange is in danger, when An Bord Pleanala's own report stated that the new road would not be audible or visible from Newgrange. So I'll leave forum users to draw their own conclusions on that.

While we're at it, Tuathal:

tuathal wrote: »

The proposed bypass will intrude upon the World Heritage Site, directly. It will be visible, audible, and entail demolishing a number of archaeological sites that are related to Newgrange. In addition, it will detract greatly from the amenity value of the site and its setting, which is also protected in law. It will sever the World Heritage Site from the village. ...

You said that the bypass was going to be part of a Dublin-Derry motorway, a “motorway by stealth”, you called it. The inspector’s report stated that:

“The first point to be noted is that the construction of the bypass to motorway standard is no longer under consideration. That would have made sense in the event of the Ashbourne to Ardee section of the N2 being upgraded as part of a comprehensive M2/N2 route. The construction of the Slane Bypass to motorway standards would not therefore make sense as a stand-alone project”.

"A proposal for a motorway scheme from Ashbourne to Ardee was mooted some years ago and this led in 2008 to a proposal to design the Slane bypass to facilitate a motorway upgrade. The current proposal is for a road of a distinctly lower standard, which could not readily be converted to a motorway without significant modifications”.

“A point of particular relevance is the incorporation into the current scheme of three at-grade junctions, which would not be acceptable on a road of motorway standard. The current position, on the basis of information made available at the hearing, is that the Ashbourne to Ardee link has been stood down and that no further work is being done on it”.

You’ve been told that over and over by people who know a lot more about road construction than either of us, but you were dogmatic in your insistence that Slane was not a stand-alone project. Whoops.

You stated, even after the balloon test, that the road would be visible from Newgrange, neglecting to mention that it is only visible if you stand on top of the monument, which is obviously not allowed. Here's a photograph of the balloon test taken from the top of Newgrange, an area not accessible to the public.



Play "spot the balloon".

Here's the balloon test from Knowth. The arrows mark where the balloons are. I've made it easy for you.



You stated it would be audible from Newgrange. The Inspector’s report says otherwise.

You stated it was a cross-border project. The Inspector’s report says it’s not.

You stated this:

Quote: Originally Posted by tuathal [/FONT][URL="http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68678131#post68678131"[/URL]
The proposed bypass will intrude upon the World Heritage Site, directly. It will be visible, audible, and entail demolishing a number of archaeological sites that are related to Newgrange.

I asked you which sites were being demolished, you declined to answer.

However, the Inspector’s report does mention the sites within 500 metres of the road, 44 of them, 34 of which would not be affected at all (which bypass supporters continually post, yet Tuathal keeps rabbitting on about the "44 sites" implying they're all going to be concreted over). The majority of the eight which will be impacted are of no significance, some are only "potential" sites. The Inspector was satisfied in this regard. Two of them were fields where lithics and flints were found. Not exactly passage tombs. Most of the impact will be slight.

“The direct impacts would affect a gate and gate lodge at Janeville, which I consider to be of very limited architectural interest. Many of the indirect impacts would be relatively minor and the structures in question are of limited interest”.

Here's the gate:



The remaining area of major impact would be to a pillbox. Here it is:



I’m not even going to get into the whole “Newgrange is Bru na Boinne so if I say Newgrange is going to be built over, that’s okay because even if it’s a farmer’s field 3.5 kilometres away, that still counts” argument.

Oh, and my favourite - that you are instructed by the “real” people of Slane, who don’t want a bypass. Because obviously the people who are asking for a bypass are outside agitators who just come up in every time there’s talk of a road being built and climb trees and cause disruption to insist that the road goes ahead. Oh, maybe I’m mixing that up.

I also notice that anybody who disagrees with you, including MYOB in the earlier pages of this thread, is a Fianna Fail stooge, and I note you were already warned about that by moderators

tuathal wrote: »

Quote (about MYOB):
Originally Posted by etchyed I trust virtually nothing this government tells me. But you can't assume somebody's a Fianna Fáil supporter/mouthpiece just because they support a road project you disagree with.

I can assume what I like when the person in question is spouting the same nonsense as Fianna Fail and the Government, as is the case here

MYOB wrote: »

The only troll around here is you. A manager of a campaign against a road who won't show his cards but claims other people have "vested interests" or are "government mouthpieces" or members of Fianna Fail pretty much defines a troll.


Exactly.


Edited - in amending the font size I seem to have omitted pictures of the archaeological sites that will be impinged upon. Tuathal talks about 44, despite being told that 44 are in proximity to the road but 34 would not be affected at all. The main ones which will be affected are this:


and this:



I had a quote where the Inspector says they weren't of much significance but I lost it. I think it's self-evident anyway.

Surely it is now time to look at alternative ways of reducing traffic using the N2 through Slane. The primary rationale for the development of the bypass was the unsafe nature of the existing road. However, the bypass was always going to be problematic from a planning perspective due to the way in which the motorway network was developed in the North East. With the M1 and the M3 already serving the north east region and beyond, its hard to see how another dual carriageway in County Meath could be justified on the traffic figures. Also, since the development of the M1, the N2 south of Ardee has little if any strategic national importance.

As a short term solution, permanent speed cameras should be installed on either side of the bridge to rigidly enforce the speed limit. Consideration could also be given to expanding the special speed limit zones in order to slow down the traffic travelling through Slane on the N2. Also, a HGV ban might be part of the solution if long distance HGVs can be incentivised/encouraged to use the M1 motorway.

A rerouting of the N2/bypass of Slane might be preferable, but it is simply not going to happen in the short or medium term. In the meantime, steps need to be taken to improve safety on the road.

I spoke with the Engineer who implemented the road safety measures and it's because of traffic coming out at Fennor Cross onto the N2.

I agree speed cameras would be a good start because there is almost total non-compliance with the speed limit, except for residents.

The one thing though, as John Ryle of the Slane Bridge Action Group has said, is that no speed camera is going to stop a lorry that loses braking power on the hill. it would be a start though and cut out some of the stupid driving at least. The aggressive overtaking of some drivers stuck behind you if you're obeying the 30kmh limit has to be seen to be believed. The lack of enforcement is a disgrace.