Ireland-Openside Flankers

O'Concrete...really? surely he still cant be in the frame. it will be a cold day in hell when i believe he is better than any of the current crop

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not turnovers, it's slowing down possession. Most international defenses now a days will easily be able to handle plenty of phases if it's all slow ball.

The reason everyone is calling for a no7 is to slow opposition ball down not poaching the ball

So warburton main skill is slowing ball down and not turning it over?

way I see it you have to be three thing to be a great no. 7

1. small
2. a brilliant cheat
3. incredibly strong/fast/fit
3a. Neil Back

I'd be surprised if Ferris does get a ban to be honest. They will probably leave it at the yellow card sanction. The two tackles were a good bit apart in terms of danger and intent.

d-gal wrote: »

As I have said POM is not as good individually as either 3 but he does play a different style of game, his workload is huge and he is offering something different which will help imo. People have to get there heads around it that the current backrow doesn't work together and things need to be tried out so give at least one player a chance. POM imo is the best player to be given a chance along with Henry, Muldoon and Ruddock.
Anyone that suggests Ronan or Jennings needs their head examined, they are no way international class. The only real '7' that is good is Johnny O'Connor and he is still way off international standard, his injuries have cost him dearly unfortunately.

i think you're missing the point i was trying to make, if our backrow is unbalanced we can do one of two things, we can select a natural ground hog 7, our stock of these currently consists of JOC, Faloon, Jennings, Ronan and Henry or our coach can change tactics to ensure sufficient numbers are committed to rucks.

Bottom line is that tactics need to change, how we use 3 of the best backrowers in the NH needs to change to ensure we make the best of their talents.

There is little logic to bringing an inexperienced lad with 2 HC starts as a 7 into the Irish team.

the juice wrote: »

bk123 wrote: »

We have two world class 6's and no 7 without wallace, so O'mahony is the obvious choice, id love to see him start against france at the weekend, id move O'brien to 8 and keep ferris 6.

Ferris will be cited and banned for the next game so that plan is out the window; why does it all have to centre around Peter O' Mahoney all of a sudden?? i don't get it; is he not very very young and inexperienced??

Simply coz he was brought into the Irish squad to hold tackle bags and he obviously impressed hugely to be kept and get ahead of Henry/Jenning etc.
For a guy so young he seems a real leader, he is one of the main voices in the munster dressing room which is not an easy task with the amount of more experienced players around. Guys like that seem to excel each time a new task is in front of them. Just look at Hartley for Northampton/England (even tho I hate him!)

If Ferris gets banned (looks likely) then I hope POM gets a shot rather than Ryan going to 6

the juice wrote: »

Are you in the dressing room with him; not starting anything but quite a statement to make there; is there a source for this to prove he is what you say he is.

I wonder why Munster selected him as captain for the PRO12 games during the W/C. Surely it wasn't because he has leadership qualities. :rolleyes:

bamboozle wrote: »

d-gal wrote: »

As I have said POM is not as good individually as either 3 but he does play a different style of game, his workload is huge and he is offering something different which will help imo. People have to get there heads around it that the current backrow doesn't work together and things need to be tried out so give at least one player a chance. POM imo is the best player to be given a chance along with Henry, Muldoon and Ruddock.
Anyone that suggests Ronan or Jennings needs their head examined, they are no way international class. The only real '7' that is good is Johnny O'Connor and he is still way off international standard, his injuries have cost him dearly unfortunately.

i think you're missing the point i was trying to make, if our backrow is unbalanced we can do one of two things, we can select a natural ground hog 7, our stock of these currently consists of JOC, Faloon, Jennings, Ronan and Henry or our coach can change tactics to ensure sufficient numbers are committed to rucks.

Bottom line is that tactics need to change, how we use 3 of the best backrowers in the NH needs to change to ensure we make the best of their talents.

There is little logic to bringing an inexperienced lad with 2 HC starts as a 7 into the Irish team.

I would prefer to give a guy with huge potential rather than a player like JOC, Ronan or Jennings who are over the hill pretty much.
Every other nation does it and its about development. The Welsh and Aussies do it time and time again so why not us.
Plus since POM's style of play and leadership I think he would not be fazed too much. Give players with potential a shot, not average players who won't make the next WC

d-gal wrote: »

POM will give a balance coz he won't look for the ball everytime. He does his primary job and rucks and tackles everything. If heaslip/SOB/ferris drop to the bench then it will give a balance. Or backrow just cannot click together yet and we need a guy who is doing the basics well so we can 'let loose' the tanks (ferris/sob)

d-gal wrote: »

POM has the potential to be a top class international. He is a different kind of player to any of our backrows and he won't stand there looking for the ball.
We have to change it as you have said they haven't played well together yet. It looks well on paper but useless on the pitch. If it doesn't work then you have to change and out of the other backrowers its either POM or someone like muldoon. A person who focuses on the basics, tackles and rucks everything.

d-gal wrote: »

As I have said POM is not as good individually as either 3 but he does play a different style of game, his workload is huge and he is offering something different which will help imo. People have to get there heads around it that the current backrow doesn't work together and things need to be tried out so give at least one player a chance. POM imo is the best player to be given a chance along with Henry, Muldoon and Ruddock.

What in your opinion does POM do differently that SOB/Ferris/Heaslip can't?

He's cut from the same cloth as Ferris and SOB and the only advantage I can see he has over them, is he'd be a better lineout option than them and has more experience in mauls. You've said yourself that he's not as good individually as the current incumbents but yet you want him in. Based on your reasoning, you could make similar arguments for inferior players that offer balance such as a specialist 7 to play instead of one of them.

Ronan plays 7 for Munster, so POM isn't rated as a 7 provincially but you're advocating POM to usurp him and play 7 in the national side. The same thing already happened when SOB overtook his Leinster comrade, Jennings in international selection at 7. All that will happen is the same mistakes continue, DK and the coaches will spin a yarn saying he came and performed admirably yadda yadda yadda, a little more of me will die inside, and we're still left without a cohesive backrow and some posters will call for the next in the line of young talent or 7's to fill the gap; Ruddock/Henry/Jennings/Ronan/Ryan/Faloon/etc. ad infinitum.

It's not the players fault the backrow/defence/attack/etc. isn't performing, it's a systemic failure of tactics brought about by deficiencies in coaching and the visible result of those failures is the performances (or lack thereof) we're seeing on the pitch.