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Applying directly to companies

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  • 25-05-2014 6:59pm
    #1
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭


    I'm back in the job market (java), anyone know good sources to identify companies looking to hire directly (i.e no recruiter)?


Comments

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    #2
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    Check some of the job boards:
    http://technicaljobs.ie/
    http://www.jobsinireland.org/
    http://www.recruitireland.com

    You can usually see pretty easily if the ad is direct or via an agency

    Blog | Tweets



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    #3
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    I use Indeed.

    http://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=Java&l=Dublin

    You still have to weed out the recruiters yourself though but I've found it handy enough to use when looking for companies who are hiring directly.


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    #4
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The stackoverflow career section maybe? It's not great for Ireland but I imagine it's a lot better for London.


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    #5
    test2014
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭test2014


    Hi Chrome,

    Just out of curiosity. How much experience do you have and usually how difficult is it to find work?

    Im in college and would be curious to gauge what its like to search for jobs in Java.

    Itll be a couple of years before i graduate but would be nice to know how the real world is and how i can improve my chances of finding work.

    Thanks in advance.


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    #6
    cregganna
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭cregganna


    Indeed is pretty cool as you can just get jobs from employers web sites with Advance Search:

    Still can't post links so add "&jt=contract&st=employer&sort=date" to Atomic Pineapples indeed URL.

    I find jobserve.com very useful too.


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    #7
    TonyStark
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭TonyStark


    I use an RSS feed and IFTTT.com rule to log new ones into Google spreadsheets. Makes deduping a little easier. :-)


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    #8
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Use LinkedIn and seek out Hiring Managers.


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    #9
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    Just curious, what exactly is the problem with going through recruiters?


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    #10
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    In my own experience, they can be a barrier to a job as recruiters are paid to forward a limited number of potential candidates in some cases. I've been getting more interviews lately and my current job by going direct to the Company and it's the second time they've offered me a job.


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    #11
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Just curious, what exactly is the problem with going through recruiters?

    I don't see the problem with recruiters either, unless you want to contract and bypass the middlemen.

    For large multinationals you probably won't get in any other way.
    The HR department relies on the recruiters to screen out the bad candidates, from there the screened CV's will make it to the development management who further screen it and decide whether it's worth interviewing them.

    If you're good, recruiters aren't an issue.
    If you don't tick enough keywords in the requirements or have limited experienced, then recruiters are like bouncers in a nightclub.

    Also if you're gullible, then recruiters can try pushing you to a company towards vacancies they want to fill, as opposed to the best vacancy for you.


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    #12
    Evil Phil
    Registered Users Posts: 7,468 ✭✭✭Evil Phil


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    For large multinationals you probably won't get in any other way.
    The HR department relies on the recruiters to screen out the bad candidates, from there the screened CV's will make it to the development management who further screen it and decide whether it's worth interviewing them.

    I totally agree about large companies and HR, but a recruiter will try and get as many CVs in front of the HR people as possible, at least that's been my experience.

    There are a neccassary evil, however some do behave professionally, I'll only deal with them.


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    #13
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Just curious, what exactly is the problem with going through recruiters?

    They usually take a cut of your rate for being middle men.

    They cannot be trusted to do what's right for you as they work for the client.

    There's usually a non-compete clause which prevents you from working directly for client.


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    #14
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Just curious, what exactly is the problem with going through recruiters?
    When I last searched for a permanent job, I logged all the applications I made; company or recruiter, and also tracked my progress in terms of the following milestones:
    1. The prospective employer saw my CV / application.
    2. Called for an initial interview (phone/Skype/face-to-face)
    3. Called for short-list / final interviews (face-to-face)
    4. Received an employment offer.
    Obviously, reaching stage 1 is automatic when you apply direct to a company; so already you've one less hurdle if you bypass a recruiter. However, what I only realized once I logged applications was the following:
    • Reaching stage 1 through companies, as mentioned above, was 100%. Through recruiters it was about 20%.
    • Reaching stage 2, from stage 1, through companies was about 20%. Through recruiters it was also about 20%.
    • Reaching stage 3, from stage 2, through companies was about 40%. Through recruiters it was also about 40%.
    Basically, to reach final interviews took five applications to recruiters for every direct application to a company. Additionally, given that progressing to stages 2 and 3 was almost ideantical regardless of whether I went through a recruiter or not, led me to conclude that whatever 'filtering' they carried out did not benefit their client in any way.

    So, overall, potentially from the perspective of the prospective employer and certainly from that of the prospective employee, recruiters are a hindrance that bring little or no value to the process. So I will avoid them where I can.


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    #15
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    John_Mc wrote: »
    They usually take a cut of your rate for being middle men.

    They cannot be trusted to do what's right for you as they work for the client.

    There's usually a non-compete clause which prevents you from working directly for client.

    You're thinking of Contracting through an outsourcing company. The topic of the day is applying for work through recruiters or go straight to the source.


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    #16
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    • Reaching stage 1 through companies, as mentioned above, was 100%. Through recruiters it was about 20%.
    • Reaching stage 2, from stage 1, through companies was about 20%. Through recruiters it was also about 20%.
    • Reaching stage 3, from stage 2, through companies was about 40%. Through recruiters it was also about 40%.

    ...
    So, overall, potentially from the perspective of the prospective employer and certainly from that of the prospective employee, recruiters are a hindrance that bring little or no value to the process. So I will avoid them where I can.

    I'd say the reasoning behind the companies being more receptive to direct applications is that they don't have to pay the recruitment agency.

    So they potentially save the company a few thousand Euro if they hire direct. So it's worth their while giving some candidate who may have lesser skills a chance at an interview than from a recruitment agent.

    I think recruitment agents get two payments, one when the candidate accepts the job and another 6 months later if they're still in the job.


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    #17
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    I'd say the reasoning behind the companies being more receptive to direct applications is that they don't have to pay the recruitment agency.
    It's difficult to say; I have had the experience in the past where I missed out on a role because I was introduced via a head hunter and the person who got it in the end was introduced through someone in the company. When I was eventually phoned up with the PFO, the CEO told me that in the end they simply couldn't ignore the fact that they'd have to shell out 29% of the annual salary in commission to the head hunter.

    Still, that I saw no discernible difference in the success rate, at reaching the different stages once the CV was in front of the company, was a coincidence that I really couldn't ignore either. And that's not simply for smaller companies where recruitment is carried out by the principles of the company. Larger companies, with HR departments that don't really worry about the money, behaved in exactly the same way.


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    #18
    seklly
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭seklly


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    [*]Reaching stage 1 through companies, as mentioned above, was 100%. Through recruiters it was about 20%.

    And how could you tell when you submitted a CV to a recruiter that 20% of the time it got through to the company?

    Was it feedback from the recruiter? I wonder do they always tell you when you submit an application through them?


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    #19
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    seklly wrote: »
    And how could you tell when you submitted a CV to a recruiter that 20% of the time it got through to the company?

    Was it feedback from the recruiter? I wonder do they always tell you when you submit an application through them?
    Legally they have to ask you permission and tell you who their client is before they forward the CV, to the best of my knowledge.

    Even if they did do so, without your permission, and the client rejected your profile, it hardly makes for a good advertisement for recruiters managing your application - it would mean that a CV submitted by a recruiter is more likely to be rejected than one submitted directly.

    Either way you're still more likely to get to those final interviews by avoiding recruiters where you can. Why is another discussion, but in my experience that's the bottom line.


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