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VRT! - Sorry to talk about the War

  • 19-02-2008 2:18pm
    #1
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭


    Firstly has anyone thought about a way of avoiding it.

    From what i have seen, if i buy a car in the UK and insure it for 6months, i can then claim that i was a uk citizen and am exempt from VRT, Is this correct. If so all i need is a UK address as i am UK employed but working from Ireland.

    Secondly has anyone questioned the Open Market Selling Price. Am am about to buy a peugeot 206cc 2004 1.6 engine, which sells in Ireland for 14,000-16,000 euro in garages and buy and sell. The VRT calculator is saying that the car OMSP is 15,000, this sounds ok but that price would be for a car that already has VRT payed on it.
    So is VRT calculated on a car price that already has VRT charged on it.
    Garry


Comments

  • #2
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Grinderman wrote: »
    From what i have seen, if i buy a car in the UK and insure it for 6months, i can then claim that i was a uk citizen and am exempt from VRT, Is this correct. If so all i need is a UK address as i am UK employed but working from Ireland.

    You can't just claim you are a UK citizen. Hell, millions would love to be US citizens but instead they struggle to get a green card.

    Got a UK passport? If not they how are you going to do it?
    I think you meant to say UK resident


  • #3
    Stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen


    They'll do you quicker than you can say "oh sh1t" for that. They have an appeals procedure but it takes ages and you're unlikely to win.


  • #4
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Erm welcome and this has been debated, disected and discussed until we are all blue in the face! :)


  • #5
    Gran Hermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,330 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    OP, just to clarify - are you asking us how best you can break the law?


  • #6
    mick.fr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭mick.fr


    Grinderman wrote: »
    So is VRT calculated on a car price that already has VRT charged on it.
    Garry

    Yes double taxation welcome to Ireland


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  • #7
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    Yes Please.
    They do say that most people break the law 20-30 times a day.
    Did you know that even to buy a newspaper and lend it to a friend, you are breaking copyright law.
    Gran Hermano wrote: »
    OP, just to clarify - are you asking us how best you can break the law?


  • #8
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    I know.
    Yet i live next to some Polish people who stack shelves in Tesco and they drive 2 high powered BMW's and the friends calling have a pretty new Audi. No VRT, NCT and probably not covered for Insurance.
    All they need is one load party and i will grass on them.
    Stephen wrote: »
    They'll do you quicker than you can say "oh sh1t" for that. They have an appeals procedure but it takes ages and you're unlikely to win.


  • #9
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Grinderman wrote:
    Yes Please.
    They do say that most people break the law 20-30 times a day.
    Did you know that even to buy a newspaper and lend it to a friend, you are breaking copyright law.

    Aye but the paper isn't stuffed full of do-gooders and PC police on high horses.


  • #10
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Gran Hermano wrote: »
    OP, just to clarify - are you asking us how best you can break the law?
    there's always one isn't there......


  • #11
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Aye but the paper isn't stuffed full of do-gooders and PC police on high horses.

    Yes quiet true, you are only breaking the law if mr do gooder says so.

    I park my car with 10mm of tyre on the footpath and i get clamped.
    Yet outside my local church there are hundreds of cars, some fully obstructing the footpath and on double yellow lines. Dare i call the cops and get arrested for wasting their time.


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  • #12
    louie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭louie


    Good luck with your venture. You are not the first one to try this and you won't be the last either.


  • #13
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Grinderman wrote: »
    Yes quiet true, you are only breaking the law if mr do gooder says so.

    I park my car with 10mm of tyre on the footpath and i get clamped.
    Yet outside my local church there are hundreds of cars, some fully obstructing the footpath and on double yellow lines. Dare i call the cops and get arrested for wasting their time.
    Don't be silly - you won't get arrested for reporting illegal or dangerous parking.

    I do find it hipocritic that if your neighbours piss you off you will report them for avoiding payment of their fair share of taxes but you were looking for a method of doing the exact same thing!?!?


  • #14
    BnA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭BnA


    Since no-one else has bothered to answer your questions. I'll have a stab at them.

    1) Basically, No. They are not idiots and seem to be on a mission to catch people out on this. You will need much more than just an aul' ESB bill with your name on it from some house in Liverpool. They may look for (or at least have looked for in the past) bank statements, payslips, letter from your employer etc etc. Also, while it is insured in the UK, do you intend to drive it here ? If so, you might run into trouble if stopped by the wrong Garda \ Customs Official.

    All in all, wheather you agree with the system or not, it is a very very difficult one to cod around with.

    2) Yes, the OMSP is the price the car would sell for here, including the VRT. It's a beeatch, but that's the way it is. Nothing you can do about it short of taking the state to the European court.

    You can appeal against the OMSP, is if you think it is too high. A few posters here have done so successfully in the past. This usually just means sending in a letter explaining your case maybe with some proof attached (A few ads from the paper or something of similar cars being sold for less than the Revenue's OMSP)


  • #15
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    kbannon wrote: »
    Don't be silly - you won't get arrested for reporting illegal or dangerous parking.

    I do find it hipocritic that if your neighbours piss you off you will report them for avoiding payment of their fair share of taxes but you were looking for a method of doing the exact same thing!?!?

    I dont think i am being silly, in fact the police sometimes come out and direct traffic at the church as they obstruct my estate. I think i might get a good telling of if i asked the cop to ticket the cars. Ok maybe i wont get arrested but i guarenteed you i will get a good telling off aswell as asked for every detail on my address and car.

    Secondly i am not a hipocrit, if i see someone saving money (you may call it stealing from the revenue), i also want to save money. I just want fairness, in the same way i want forigners to get paid fairly as there has been some discussion on it in the news today.
    There would not be VRT or Double VRT in this country if there were more people with back bones and less people with there noses up the rear end of the government.
    Sometimes i just wish there were more French people in Ireland


  • #16
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    Ok that helps, but now what i wanted, not your fault.
    I am just pissed off as i spend half my time in the Uk and my PAYE to the UK but i spend my time in hotels in the UK, but if i have a home address it would be Ireland and my Passport.

    Re the appeal on the OMSP, i am annoyed that i cant ring someone before i buy the car and the insurance company will not allow a No Claims Bonus on 2 cars, so the banger i am selling for 600euro will cost about 1000euro a year to insure. and my new one valued at 14,000 can be insured for 450euro.

    BnA wrote: »
    Since no-one else has bothered to answer your questions. I'll have a stab at them.

    1) Basically, No. They are not idiots and seem to be on a mission to catch people out on this. You will need much more than just an aul' ESB bill with your name on it from some house in Liverpool. They may look for (or at least have looked for in the past) bank statements, payslips, letter from your employer etc etc. Also, while it is insured in the UK, do you intend to drive it here ? If so, you might run into trouble if stopped by the wrong Garda \ Customs Official.

    All in all, wheather you agree with the system or not, it is a very very difficult one to cod around with.

    2) Yes, the OMSP is the price the car would sell for here, including the VRT. It's a beeatch, but that's the way it is. Nothing you can do about it short of taking the state to the European court.

    You can appeal against the OMSP, is if you think it is too high. A few posters here have done so successfully in the past. This usually just means sending in a letter explaining your case maybe with some proof attached (A few ads from the paper or something of similar cars being sold for less than the Revenue's OMSP)


  • #17
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Grinderman wrote: »
    I dont think i am being silly, in fact the police sometimes come out and direct traffic at the church as they obstruct my estate. I think i might get a good telling of if i asked the cop to ticket the cars. Ok maybe i wont get arrested but i guarenteed you i will get a good telling off aswell as asked for every detail on my address and car.
    Now you are saying all you would get is a telling off (which again (depending on how you talk to the garda) I don't think would occur!) - so I was right! :D
    Drivers are not allowed park alongside single white lines, nor are they allowed park within 5m of a junction. If you believe that someone's parking is dangerous or illegal then tell the gardai - its their job and I have never got a telling off. If they were to say something defensive to me, I would ask for their name and badge number and see if they will accept responsibility for any incidents that may occur there (for me it has never come to that).
    Grinderman wrote: »
    Secondly i am not a hipocrit, if i see someone saving money (you may call it stealing from the revenue), i also want to save money. I just want fairness, in the same way i want forigners to get paid fairly as there has been some discussion on it in the news today.
    There would not be VRT or Double VRT in this country if there were more people with back bones and less people with there noses up the rear end of the government.
    Sometimes i just wish there were more French people in Ireland
    Maybe there wouldn't be VRT if people had backbones or whatever but whilst I disagree with VRT, the government still need to take in 1.5billion or whatever annually. What other method do you propose?
    As for your original question - you posted the following:
    "Firstly has anyone thought about a way of avoiding it."
    yet you feel that you can use tax evasion as a way of seeking revenge against neighbours should they piss you off.
    You are technically no better that the politician who has the nose of a property developer up their rear end!
    Grinderman wrote: »
    I am just pissed off as i spend half my time in the Uk and my PAYE to the UK but i spend my time in hotels in the UK, but if i have a home address it would be Ireland and my Passport.
    The revenue are quite specific about their definition of (permanent) residence and it is actually difficult to prove it (my wife couldn't prove that she came from NI which she did!)
    Grinderman wrote: »
    Re the appeal on the OMSP, i am annoyed that i cant ring someone before i buy the car and the insurance company will not allow a No Claims Bonus on 2 cars, so the banger i am selling for 600euro will cost about 1000euro a year to insure. and my new one valued at 14,000 can be insured for 450euro.
    Insurance cost often has no bearing on the value of the car as insurance is more risk related.


  • #18
    Grinderman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Grinderman


    Topic ended.


  • #19
    Mayshine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Mayshine


    Arggg - please stop saying where will we find the 1.5 billion that the poor gov will lose out on

    You should be asking how we can remove 1.5 billion of waste from our public sector outgoings.

    And to be honest it would not be too hard...


  • #20
    Tipsy Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Tipsy Mac


    Mayshine wrote: »
    Arggg - please stop saying where will we find the 1.5 billion that the poor gov will lose out on

    You should be asking how we can remove 1.5 billion of waste from our public sector outgoings.

    And to be honest it would not be too hard...

    Indeed it wouldn't, here's where €1.7 billion of our hard earned was blown...
    Taxpayers hit by €1.7bn bill for abuse and health scandals

    THE bill for abuse and health scandals has reached almost €1.7bn -- and is likely to exceed €2.6bn before the compensation schemes are over.

    The staggering financial toll on the taxpayer arising out of health and abuse scandals is revealed today in new figures compiled by the Irish Independent.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taxpayers-hit-by-836417bn-bill-for-abuse-and-health-scandals-1292448.html


  • #21
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Mayshine wrote: »
    You should be asking how we can remove 1.5 billion of waste from our public sector outgoings.
    That would be easy.

    Finding someone with the balls to take on the civil servants.. not so easy.


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  • #22
    DamoDLK
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭DamoDLK


    The best thing for you to do is go away off and live there for a year or so...

    Normal Residence Rules
    - Individual is tax residence in the State for a tax year if he is present in the state for:
    - A total of 183 days or more during that tax year. (Rule 1)
    - A total of 280 days or more in that tax year and the previous tax year and is present for more than 30 days in each tax year (Rule 2) (Periods not exceeding 30 days are ignored for rule 2)
    - A person can not be tax resident in the year in which they are resident for 30 days or less.


    God i miss studying tax law!..not


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