UK Death certs

jos28 · 28-02-2014 10:47pm #1

I have found a grave record for what I believe is my Grandfather's brother. He died in Dagenham in 1931. Does anyone know what details would be on his death cert if I ordered it and secondly any idea where I could obtain a copy.
Cheers !

scudzilla · 28-02-2014 10:50pm

I think death certs only have cause of death (i.e cancer), with it being so old i don't know if it would even have that.

Here's the registrar you need to speak to http://www.lbbd.gov.uk/CommunityPeopleAndLiving/Registration/Pages/Certificates.aspx

jos28 · 28-02-2014 11:18pm

Thanks Scudzilla, you mean it won't have a list of all his family complete with DOBs :eek:

I'm going to get a copy anyway to see if it's him.I'm finding it so hard to track him. He was born in Tralee in 1890 and fought in WW1. I found what could be a marriage on familysearch but it's not showing up on irishgenealogy. So frustrating

shanew · 01-03-2014 10:45am

pretty sure that England/Wales death certs from that time are the same as Irish ones - so name, age, occupation of deceased, date place and cause of death, and name of informant. Slightly later England/Wales certs had reported date of birth.

If you have the references from FreeBMD you can order online from GRO UK - certs are about £9

KildareFan · 01-03-2014 12:35pm

The certs I have looked at from the Irish GRO vary in terms of information and accuracy.

Leaving aside the often illegible handwriting, some certs give the place of death not the normal residence. So if someone died in hospital, you don't get the home address. The age of death is given, but is often a rough guess by whoever fills in the form. According to my great grandmother's death cert, she died aged 66; from other evidence, she was actually 72 years old.

The informant is sometimes a relation, but could be a doctor, nurse, administrator.

This means that with relatively common names you can't really be sure that you've got the cert for correct person. Sometimes death notices in newspapers are more informative if they list the address and relatives.

jos28 · 01-03-2014 1:21pm

Thanks a million folks. I'm going to order it anyway and see what shows up. I'll keep you all posted as to what details are on the cert.

dido2 · 05-03-2014 3:21pm

jos28

Have you found his service record from WW1????

Kildarefan, any most death certs I've gotten have their home address on them in some part, usually under the name of the person.....

KildareFan · 06-03-2014 1:24am

dido2 wrote: »

jos28

Kildarefan, any most death certs I've gotten have their home address on them in some part, usually under the name of the person.....

I've found a couple which only state the hospital - usually in those days the local workhouse.

jos28 · 14-03-2014 10:09pm

I've ordered the cert but still haven't received it yet. Dido, I didn't get his WW1 record but Johnny over on the WW1 forum looked him up for me. We think this might be him

if he was RE and with a Silver War Badge, the only William Glover that fits near is 22054 William Glover; enlisted 26/9/11; discharged 30/3/1918 as a result of sickness; no overseas service; age 26 on discharge so out by 2 years (but not unusual for this to be wrong). 448th Field Company, RE. No other documents I'm afraid.

L1011 · 14-03-2014 10:27pm

UK certs take a huge amount of time, unfortunately.

Alun · 19-03-2014 5:10pm

MYOB wrote: »

UK certs take a huge amount of time, unfortunately.

Any UK certs that we've ordered (and that's quite a lot recently) have all arrived within a week to 10 days.

magzer · 24-03-2014 8:11pm

This is a sample of a UK death cert:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/images/death%20Cert%20PDF.pdf

jos28 · 26-03-2014 5:03pm

Thanks for that Magzer, that amount of information would be a great help. I'm still waiting for the cert I ordered

:(
I've emailed them twice and still no luck yet. Not exactly fast and efficient

dido2 · 26-03-2014 5:09pm

jos

When I ordered a birth cert from the Uk once I made the order it gave me an expected delivery date for it via email, did you get one of those emails??

jos28 · 27-03-2014 10:11pm

Yep Dido,I got the email with all the reference details and they said I would have it within 10 working days. That was on 1st March !
I emailed them again today so hopefully it will show up soon.

dido2 · 27-03-2014 10:35pm

Yes I think you should have had it 2 weeks ago!!! 10 Working days from the 1st would have been the 14th!

Alun · 31-03-2014 3:15pm

jos28 wrote: »

Yep Dido,I got the email with all the reference details and they said I would have it within 10 working days. That was on 1st March !
I emailed them again today so hopefully it will show up soon.

Did you give them the full information from the FreeBMD index (Volume / Page No. and Registration (Sub-) District) or would they have had to do any searching, which might take a bit longer.

jos28 · 31-03-2014 11:04pm

I never thought of doing that Alun, I should have because it might have speeded this up. I just filled in the necessary boxes on their order form. I got it from searching the Dagenham Cemetery online records.

Alun · 02-04-2014 3:04pm

That might explain it then. I've always filled in the details from the FreeBMD index, obtained in my case through ancestry.co.uk, but you can access the same index directly from their website www.freebmd.org.uk.

jos28 · 04-04-2014 1:14pm

The cert finally arrived this morning and it was worth the wait. It's definitely my Grandad's brother and I now have an address for him. Unfortunately his widow is listed as A.Glover, I would have preferred to see her full name. It would have made it easier to find their marriage. I don't know if they married in Ireland or Britain. Is it strange to have his occupation as Ex Sapper RE ? He died in 1931, would this mean that he didn't have any other employment since his returned from the war ??
Any suggestions on how to find further info on himself or his family would be much appreciated.

L1011 · 04-04-2014 1:43pm

May have been receiving a pension for that role (albeit at age 40, maybe not) hence it being listed.

shanew · 04-04-2014 1:51pm

1930 London Electoral Rolls (Anc) - same address as his wife as the informant on the death cert :

Name: William Francis Glover
Year: 1930
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Battersea
Street address: 46 Altenburg Gardens

also at the address is Alice Margaret Glover

shanew · 04-04-2014 2:01pm

jos28 wrote: »

....He was born in Tralee in 1890 and fought in WW1. I found what could be a marriage on familysearch but it's not showing up on irishgenealogy. So frustrating

Have you found William on the Irish or English census returns ?

edit : maybe this is the family in 1901, although age is a little out and according to baptism mother should be Margaret, not Mary - 2nd marriage for William snr. ?

jos28 · 04-04-2014 2:19pm

Thanks Shane, that's him in Tralee alright. My Grandad was Bartholomew (note his surname is Horse

). I've emailed NAI to amend it but sure you know what that is like.
Bart and William's parents were both married before and widowed so you were spot on there. Mary died in 1912 and according to family stories her first family reclaimed the house. The 2 lads signed up in Tralee in 1913, my Grandad came home in 1917 and married a local girl while William settled in England after the war. I have no idea if Alice was Irish or English. I had no luck finding a marriage on irishgenealogy.

Alun · 04-04-2014 2:24pm

If he was discharged due to injury or other illness it's quite possible he was unable to work after his return. A relative of my wife who was pensioned from the army after the Crimean War had "Army pensioner" as his occupation right up to his death many years later.

I've checked on ancestry.co.uk for you and have found two entries in the electoral register for 1929 and 1930 for William Francis Glover, and Alice Margaret Glover both resident at 46 Altenburg Gardens which is the address shown on the Death Cert, so I'd say that's a definite.

I've had a quick look around on the site for anything else but couldn't find anything definite there for either of them, but given his rough birth date of 1891, he'd only be 20 at that stage, and his wife also around the same age, so maybe they weren't even married at that stage, or even in England at all.

Anyway, at least you now have a name to go on.

EDIT: took too long to edit that one

shanew · 04-04-2014 3:13pm

as well as Ex. sapper R.E. He is shown on the death cert as 'attending gardens, Battersea' - so sounds like he was employed.

jos28 · 04-04-2014 3:20pm

shanew wrote: »

as well as Ex. sapper R.E. He is shown on the death cert as 'attending gardens, Battersea' - so sounds like he was employed.

I think that's Altenburg Gardens Shane ?? I hope he found work, I'd hate to think of him falling on hard times. It's strange to think that both William and my Grandad both joined the RE and both died in their 40s of chest related complications. I know my Grandad was discharged without visible signs of injury in 1913. He was an chronic asthmatic (how did he pass the medical ?) and was mustard gassed.

shanew · 04-04-2014 4:07pm

jos28 wrote: »

I think that's Altenburg Gardens Shane ?? I hope he found work, I'd hate to think of him falling on hard times. It's strange to think that both William and my Grandad both joined the RE and both died in their 40s of chest related complications. I know my Grandad was discharged without visible signs of injury in 1913. He was an chronic asthmatic (how did he pass the medical ?) and was mustard gassed.

true, I read that too quick - it's his home address, under occupation. Jumped to conclusions re Battersea... my London geography needs brushing up...

Any marriage would be too recent for the IrishGenealogy website, you would have to try FamilySearch or FreeBMD. Had a quick look on both but didn't see anything, but he may not have used the middle name then just to make it difficult

shanew · 04-04-2014 4:13pm

presumably the possible marriage you mentioned before - might be worth another look since one of the potential bride's has first name Alice :

Name: William F Glover
Quarter/Year : Apr-Jun 1916
Registration district: Tralee
Volume: 5 / Page Number: 333

Brides : Katrin Murphy, Margaret Hennessy, Miriam Murphy, Alice McCarthy

jos28 · 04-04-2014 5:11pm

Thanks Shane,
I'll get that cert out when I am in town during the week.
Cheers

UK Death certs

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