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*Mod warning post #36* Dog escaping boundary - Advice on securing him?

  • 23-01-2012 11:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭


    My girlfriend lives in the country and has two labrador dogs, the younger and more dominant of which keeps escaping into surrounding farmland where sheep graze risking his being shot by a farmer.

    This has been going on over a month now and she has put up posts and chicken wire in all the places she has been able to find where he might be escaping but this evening he got out once more.

    When this was discovered attempts were made to coax him back in without opening the gate so he would reveal his exit route but he seemed unable to get in anywhere, although it was dark and this may have affected him? I thought perhaps since he was able to get out, but apparently unable to get back in, to escape he might be getting on top of something and jumping down over the boundary fence or hedge etc.

    He's locked away now in the shed where he sleeps but he cannot be kept there all the time. We are going to see if we can find and secure using chicken wire and posts anywhere else he could be escaping from, but there is not 2,500 euros available (as quoted in similar threads to this) to fence off the entire area professionally.

    The house is a bungalow so there is not a second storey window we could spy on him from to see where he's getting out, and if anyone is out the back garden, the only place where the main boundary is visible, he will be focused on them and not trying to escape.

    He is 3 years old and unneutered unlike the older dog. Would neutering him make a difference - along with extra fencing - or is it true after a certain age it is cruel to neuter a dog as it will mess with their heads?

    My girlfriend has started to look for a home for him so he does not end up getting shot and there has been talk of more extreme measures if one cannot be found but ultimately if he can be secured and kept in his current home that would be preferred by all concerned.

    Thoughts and advice welcome.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭are you serious


    I dont have this problem but I would suggest installing something similar to a "line" for the dog

    Here is just one example I found in a quick search
    http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Trolley.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    Escaping dogs are a nightmare, I know cos I've a clatter of them! we've finally fenced in 99.9% of the garden, the 0.1% missing is because I reckon my 13 year old collie could escape from a high security prison! She's on one of those zipline/trolley lines that garkane mentioned. In order to find out how she escaped we set up a Phantom-cam, and that captured her leaving. She also refused to show us how she was getting back in. We also have a bungalow and hubby climbed onto the roof and when he was quietly in place I let our escape artist out to catch her in the act, maybe you could do that?

    Neutering may help and certainly it's not to late to neuter him but if he's used to wandering he may not stop simply by neutering him. You could always build a run onto the shed using posts and chicken wire, or those big builders panels, that way you could gradually add to it and use the panels to eventually fence in your garden.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 6,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    garkane wrote: »
    I dont have this problem but I would suggest installing something similar to a "line" for the dog

    Here is just one example I found in a quick search
    http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Trolley.htm

    Attach it to a harness on the dog - not a collar, if he tries to jumps over a fence he'll hang himself with a collar, attach the line to walls if possible, the dog can't get tangled around a wall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,795 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The obvious answer is to keep both dogs indoors where they are safe & secure. Also invest in some training so that the dog doesn't react to livestock.

    If you are going to fence then it is better to fence of a smaller area with proper fencing like post & rail with chainlink than a big area with weak chicken wire.

    Chicken wire will never contain a dog unless it is well stapled to post & rail fencing - it's meant for chickens not dogs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    If the dog cannot be supervised outside, then keep him in, please.

    Collie here is a car chaser, and even if I am sure she "cannot" get to the road, when I am indoors, so is she. Once I slipped up and found her playing Russian Roulette on the road with the school bus.

    Once is all it takes, and it really is not a problem to ensure safety.

    So never, ever again. Also dogs can be stolen if left out alone.

    Even to hint at putting the dog to sleep for what is so easily solved?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    garkane wrote: »
    I dont have this problem but I would suggest installing something similar to a "line" for the dog

    Looks good, I'll bring it up with the dog's owner.

    We had tried a dog cable but it kept kinking and eventually tore so now he's on a chain attached to a metre or two of cable which goes onto his harness.
    Escaping dogs are a nightmare, I know cos I've a clatter of them! we've finally fenced in 99.9% of the garden, the 0.1% missing is because I reckon my 13 year old collie could escape from a high security prison! She's on one of those zipline/trolley lines that garkane mentioned. In order to find out how she escaped we set up a Phantom-cam, and that captured her leaving. She also refused to show us how she was getting back in. We also have a bungalow and hubby climbed onto the roof and when he was quietly in place I let our escape artist out to catch her in the act, maybe you could do that?

    We actually found how he was getting out and blocked it up but I will consider the climbing up on the roof option for the future! :)
    Neutering may help and certainly it's not to late to neuter him but if he's used to wandering he may not stop simply by neutering him. You could always build a run onto the shed using posts and chicken wire, or those big builders panels, that way you could gradually add to it and use the panels to eventually fence in your garden.

    All good advice.
    Attach it to a harness on the dog - not a collar, if he tries to jumps over a fence he'll hang himself with a collar, attach the line to walls if possible, the dog can't get tangled around a wall.

    Thanks, we took that advice! One thing though, it does seem to often slide down the side of him. The harness is still on him, just where the cable is attached is supposed to remain on his back but can slide, we've already changed size once.
    Discodog wrote: »
    The obvious answer is to keep both dogs indoors where they are safe & secure.
    Graces7 wrote: »
    If the dog cannot be supervised outside, then keep him in, please.

    It's not an obvious answer, these are not small dogs and the house would be filthy, not to mention living in a house smelling of dog does not appeal.
    Discodog wrote: »
    Also invest in some training so that the dog doesn't react to livestock.

    I don't have much faith in anyone ability to train a dog to not follow his natural instincts and chase sheep when unsupervised.
    Discodog wrote: »
    Chicken wire will never contain a dog unless it is well stapled to post & rail fencing - it's meant for chickens not dogs.

    On the parts properly fenced it works just fine, we use camping hooks to hammer it down into the ground.
    Graces7 wrote: »
    If the dog cannot be supervised outside, then keep him in, please.
    Graces7 wrote: »
    Once is all it takes, and it really is not a problem to ensure safety.

    Well it is a problem to have a dogs indoors when they are not wanted indoors.
    Graces7 wrote: »
    Even to hint at putting the dog to sleep for what is so easily solved?

    It would not be my choice, or decision to make, to give the dog up for adoption or put him down


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Sigma Force


    Dog pen perhaps..sometimes they are sold second hand they aren't cheap but you can make them large enough and extend them over time to be the size of an average town garden or bigger if you like. cilldara.ie or other crowd do them they could be an option they last a life time. Or try farm relief services, strong chainlink wire and heavy timber posts are good for larger areas but to be honest there really isn't a cheap way of fencing a large area off properly but it has to be done if you have dogs and will give you peace of mind in the long run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Browning2010


    What you need is this. A bit of money involved but works a treat.

    You'll only need to use it for a few weeks then the dog will eventually learn.



    http://www.innotekcollars.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=94&zenid=65631ca9e5a5c5b5e9955d079d1f0cbe


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    dusf wrote: »

    It's not an obvious answer, these are not small dogs and the house would be filthy, not to mention living in a house smelling of dog does not appeal.


    House wouldn't be filthy if dogs were indoors. There might be some extra dog hair to hoover if the dogs shed, but if they are indoors they are not outdoors rolling in shite. I suppose it's a case of does the owner like the dogs enough to bring them indoors. I'm not actually getting that vibe here.

    The house doesn't have to smell of dog. If it's hoovered regularly that takes care of most of the dog smell.
    dusf wrote: »
    I don't have much faith in anyone ability to train a dog to not follow his natural instincts and chase sheep when unsupervised.

    That's just a cop out and sheer laziness, owner can't be bothered to train the dog. You mightn't get a dog to obey every command 100% of the time, but dogs can be trained. Plenty of farmers have dogs and don't seem to have problems with them chasing livestock. They are trained not to.

    dusf wrote: »
    Well it is a problem to have a dogs indoors when they are not wanted indoors.

    How much interaction does the dog get with the owner if it's outside all the time. It's probably bored.

    dusf wrote: »
    It would not be my choice, or decision to make, to give the dog up for adoption or put him down


    Must remember this if I ever have kids and they piss me off or torment the neighbour's cat, would be a handy solution instead of disciplining them and keeping them under control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Tranceypoo


    I have 2 largish dogs in my house - a staffy/lab x and a collie/boxer x, both are indoor dogs and my house is grand and clean and certainly does not smell of dogs!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    What you need is this. A bit of money involved but works a treat.

    You'll only need to use it for a few weeks then the dog will eventually learn.

    http://www.innotekcollars.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=94&zenid=65631ca9e5a5c5b5e9955d079d1f0cbe

    She actually has one of those already and used it on the other dog before but it burnt holes into his neck.
    House wouldn't be filthy if dogs were indoors. There might be some extra dog hair to hoover if the dogs shed, but if they are indoors they are not outdoors rolling in shite. I suppose it's a case of does the owner like the dogs enough to bring them indoors. I'm not actually getting that vibe here.

    Of course the dogs are loved, but these dogs are large animals and large animals should not be kept indoors, people who would keep large dogs in an average sized house are dirty, slightly strange, and usually stink of dogs, we are not dirty people.
    That's just a cop out and sheer laziness, owner can't be bothered to train the dog.

    You do not know the owner so you have no idea what you are talking about. Please refrain from insulting us as we came here to seek advice, not be harassed by some animal rights nut.
    You mightn't get a dog to obey every command 100% of the time, but dogs can be trained. Plenty of farmers have dogs and don't seem to have problems with them chasing livestock.

    Farmers who have dogs usually have them trained for herding sheep, also the dogs are surrounded by animals all the time and used to it.

    You seem to put an incredible amount of faith in dog training, and you still are not grasping what I am saying, and by your own admission the dog will not respond to commands 100% of the time, and that said there will be nobody to command him if he dog escapes. He only has to kill a lambing sheep once for him to get shot.
    How much interaction does the dog get with the owner if it's outside all the time. It's probably bored.

    A lot of interaction, and again keeping two large dogs in a regular sized house is strange and dirty. Most people keep large dogs outside.
    Must remember this if I ever have kids and they piss me off or torment the neighbour's cat, would be a handy solution instead of disciplining them and keeping them under control.

    Wow! There really is something wrong with you, and you must certainly be one of the strange animal people. I just said it would not be my choice to do this, or my decision to make - are you on drugs or something? You sound like one of this freaks that stands outside McDonalds harassing people that meat is murder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Tranceypoo wrote: »
    I have 2 largish dogs in my house - a staffy/lab x and a collie/boxer x, both are indoor dogs and my house is grand and clean and certainly does not smell of dogs!!

    Honestly I do not mean to offend you, but most people probably would not tell you they get a scent of dogs of you or your home etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    dusf wrote: »
    She actually has one of those already and used it on the other dog before but it burnt holes into his neck.



    Of course the dogs are loved, but these dogs are large animals and large animals should not be kept indoors, people who would keep large dogs in an average sized house are dirty, slightly strange, and usually stink of dogs, we are not dirty people.

    Every person who keeps a large dog indoors??? Wow.

    You do not know the owner so you have no idea what you are talking about. Please refrain from insulting us as we came here to seek advice, not be harassed by some animal rights nut.



    Farmers who have dogs usually have them trained for herding sheep, also the dogs are surrounded by animals all the time and used to it.

    You seem to put an incredible amount of faith in dog training, and you still are not grasping what I am saying, and by your own admission the dog will not respond to commands 100% of the time, and that said there will be nobody to command him if he dog escapes. He only has to kill a lambing sheep once for him to get shot.



    A lot of interaction, and again keeping two large dogs in a regular sized house is strange and dirty. Most people keep large dogs outside.



    Wow! There really is something wrong with you, and you must certainly be one of the strange animal people. I just said it would not be my choice to do this, or my decision to make - are you on drugs or something? You sound like one of this freaks that stands outside McDonalds harassing people that meat is murder.


    Post reported.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Reported for what.... you have completely over reacted to what we said, failing to even read properly and completely what we said, and then resorting to insulting us as lazy and implying with do not care about our dogs.

    Report away, just save the rhetoric for some street corner please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Midnight Sundance


    I don't if know what I am about to say will be severely frowned upon but I know my dad did it and it worked. We have a Hudini dog who finds his way out through the smallest holes,
    Dad had set up an electric fence ting around the chicken coup to stop foxes killing the hens and when the dog kept escaping , he extended it. Dog got one dart ( I know it is cruel... ) but the dog never did it again . I don't think the fence is even on anymore.
    And to add it was not a very high level that would harm the dog, we idolise our animals and it was either one quick shock or finding him dead on a very very very busy road and we couldn't handle that at all!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Apparently this has turned into a classroom.

    Right NO ONE is to insult anyone else. However, replying to a potentially insulting post more than in kind with name calling etc. is also not tolerated and to be honest, negates the point of reporting a post. Personal abuse is not tolerated.

    Issue with a post - use the REPORT POST fuction - do NOT reply to the post.

    People have dogs that live outdoors, doesn't mean they don't care about them.
    People have dogs that live indoors, doesn't mean they're dirty or ''freaks''.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Spunk84


    for 20-40e you can buy steel builders fences like below. 4 panels and theres a dog run! Get it sorted man or you will be lumbered with a bill if the dog attacks or causes harm to farm animals.

    ViewThumb-9477365.jpeg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Spunk84


    for 20-40e you can buy steel builders fences like below. 4 panels and theres a dog run! Get it sorted man or you will be lumbered with a bill if the dog attacks or causes harm to farm animals.

    View2-10382658.jpeg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Spunk84 wrote: »
    for 20-40e you can buy steel builders fences like below. 4 panels and theres a dog run! Get it sorted man or you will be lumbered with a bill if the dog attacks or causes harm to farm animals.

    View2-10382658.jpeg

    Looks good, the thing is the ground is uneven and on many different levels. I will try to take some pictures over the weekend and put them up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭RubyGirl


    If she is the owner of the house, she should put down a slab of concrete, they would not be able to dig under it then.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Spunk84 wrote: »
    for 20-40e you can buy steel builders fences like below. 4 panels and theres a dog run! Get it sorted man or you will be lumbered with a bill if the dog attacks or causes harm to farm animals.

    View2-10382658.jpeg

    Sorry, but that photo is not of the builder's fencing, that is a properly built dog pen. The builder's fencing doesn't fit together as securely as that. It can be a good, cheap, effective solution, depending on the dog, some dogs can actually bend the metal in the builder's fencing quite easily, and it won't look like that. It also won't have a gate as that picture does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    two options 1 shoot the farmer,and two keep them indoors,everyone in the UK keeps their dogs in the house,the only exceptions to this are the breeders who need a larger space, i had this same conversation with a owner of a estate in south wicklow,he was converting his old buildings into holiday cottages,and he told me he was going to build outside kennels so the holiday tourist could keep their pets in ,he seemed a bit put out when i said visitors from the UK keep pets in the house not outside,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Surely you can not say all people in the UK keep their dogs indoors! That's preposterous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    getz wrote: »
    two options 1 shoot the farmer

    Joking or not, that is not an option so please don't post 'options' that involve violence/harm against human or animal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    I've read the other suggestions, some very good, but would like to suggest another one, since none of the good suggestions are actually 100% guaranteed to stop the dog escaping.:)

    At the same time as you do your level best to make sure whatever enclosure solution you put in place is as effective as possible, why not talk to the farmer and agree that the dog will wear a muzzle at all times that it is not indoors in the house? That way, the farmer need not be afraid that it will hurt sheep or other livestock and can call you when the dog gets out rather than shooting it. Compromise always means both sides giving and taking, and the result is good neighbourly relations.:)

    That said, if someone shot my dog, he'd had to be watching over his shoulder for the rest of his life!:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭padraig.od


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I've read the other suggestions, some very good, but would like to suggest another one, since none of the good suggestions are actually 100% guaranteed to stop the dog escaping.:)

    At the same time as you do your level best to make sure whatever enclosure solution you put in place is as effective as possible, why not talk to the farmer and agree that the dog will wear a muzzle at all times that it is not indoors in the house? That way, the farmer need not be afraid that it will hurt sheep or other livestock and can call you when the dog gets out rather than shooting it. Compromise always means both sides giving and taking, and the result is good neighbourly relations.:)

    That said, if someone shot my dog, he'd had to be watching over his shoulder for the rest of his life!:(

    The dog could run a pregnant ewe, or worse pregnant cattle. A dog doesn't have to be savaging a farm animal to do it damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    dusf wrote: »
    Surely you can not say all people in the UK keep there dogs indoors! That's preposterous.
    at least 90% of pet owners in the UK keep their dogs indoors,in fact local councils,class dogs in two ways,those that are kept indoors are called domestic and those outside non domestic,but for me i find is how can people sit in their cosy warm homes with rain/snow on the ground outside ,knowing their pet dog is out there on its own without affection,human interaction or normal bonding rituals such a pack animal is instinctively geared towards,surely this completely defeats the point of getting a dog at all,


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I've read the other suggestions, some very good, but would like to suggest another one, since none of the good suggestions are actually 100% guaranteed to stop the dog escaping.:)

    At the same time as you do your level best to make sure whatever enclosure solution you put in place is as effective as possible, why not talk to the farmer and agree that the dog will wear a muzzle at all times that it is not indoors in the house? That way, the farmer need not be afraid that it will hurt sheep or other livestock and can call you when the dog gets out rather than shooting it. Compromise always means both sides giving and taking, and the result is good neighbourly relations.:)

    That said, if someone shot my dog, he'd had to be watching over his shoulder for the rest of his life!:(
    i have just been told off for saying something like that,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    getz wrote: »
    at least 90% of pet owners in the UK keep their dogs indoors,in fact local councils,class dogs in two ways,those that are kept indoors are called domestic and those outside non domestic,but for me i find is how can people sit in their cosy warm homes with rain/snow on the ground outside ,knowing their pet dog is out there on its own without affection,human interaction or normal bonding rituals such a pack animal is instinctively geared towards,surely this completely defeats the point of getting a dog at all,

    The dogs have their own shed they are able to open the door to, and it closes on itself. Also, they like the novelty of playing in the snow.

    The dog receives plenty of affection, I do not understand why indoor dog people seem so sure that outdoor dog people do not care for their dogs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    dusf wrote: »
    Surely you can not say all people in the UK keep their dogs indoors! That's preposterous.

    Until I moved back to Ireland 5 years ago, I hadn't met a single dog owner that didn't keep their dogs indoors. That was in the UK. I do now know some UK owners who's dog sleep outside in purpose built kennels, but the dogs spent part of every day in the house with their owners. Those people have large packs of working dogs, so it is not practical for all of the dogs to sleep indoors every night.

    Unfortunately it seems to be an Irish thing to keep dogs outdoors, and to allow them to roam (I know you're trying to stop a dog from roaming, but it appears only because its in danger of worrying livestock, if that wasn't an issue, would you bother keeping the dog enclosed in a garden?) Tell English people that you have dogs and they never go into your house, see what they say.


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