[CMpunked]

Originally Posted by Gumbi

I don't have a clue what you're trying to say, can't help tbh :/

Ah. Shame.

I heard the description off a friend of mine a while back so think i'll go back to him and get clarification as i obviously cant retell it as good as it sounded.

[mcmoustache]

Originally Posted by CMpunked

It was a bad choice for a lack of a better word. What one should i have used?

I was sure I responded to this last night but my post wasn't here this morning. The problem with using words like "wavelength" is that they are testable. If you say heaven is in a different wavelength to us, we can check all the wavelengths and we might not find heaven. You might as well say it's up mount Olympus or up in the sky. Both can be checked and this allows for the falsification of heaven which isn't in any Christian's interest.

With regard to where heaven is, I think that the best source of information on heaven can be found in the bible. There are several accounts of Jesus's ascension, which, although tricky to reconcile, at least provide a reasonable starting point. He was witnessed on his way to heaven in full bodily form and unlike everyone else, it was possible to watch him as he went.

According to Luke, Jesus was carried up into heaven. This is also corroborated by the Book of Acts in that he rose up and disappeared into the clouds in Israel during spring. These accounts seem fairly consistent with one another and they would suggest that the direction towards heaven is up. Let's not forget that Jesus ascended in bodily form and was witnessed.

Mark, on the other hand throws a spanner in the works with an account of Jesus being seen seated at the right hand side of God. This suggests that heaven was visible to those on earth for a moment or two.

How can Mark's version be reconciled with Luke's and the Book of Acts? If Jesus rose up in the air and disappeared into the clouds, how did Mark see him seated with God?

I'm really not sure but perhaps Mark had a vision or maybe embellished things a little. More people saw Jesus rise up than saw Him seated. If people witnessed Jesus going up in the air into the clouds, this shows that heaven is either in or beyond the clouds.

We can dismiss the idea that it's "in" the clouds since we've all been in them at some point and didn't find heaven, so that leaves us with a heaven beyond the clouds. Assuming that the ascension wasn't a theatrical piece, this means that to get to heaven, one must go into outer space.

unfortunately, at this point, without biblical evidence, we can only speculate on what happened beyond the clouds. Did Jesus go through a wormhole and into another universe? Was he magicked out from our existence into the eternal one? Did he suffocate and freeze and go to heaven like the rest of us? Unfortunately, the bible doesn't mention this.

With regard to Mark, if we assume for a moment that Luke and the the Book of Acts got things wrong, it may be that heaven is some sort of parallel universe that bled into ours for that moment when Mark could see Jesus with God. If God made everything, there's no reason why he couldn't have on universe interfere with another. It's nothing more than a four-dimensional projection after all. It is a bit far-fetched, though.

Personally, I think Mark's account isn't plausible. I have no idea where heaven is, but according to the account with the most witnesses, to get there, you need to go up beyond the clouds.What happens beyond the clouds is anyone's guess.

As for CMPunked's question, I would suggest a something like Astral Plane or Universe. These put heaven beyond scientific testability. the last thing any true Christian wants is for the existence of heaven to be testable and found to fail that test.

[santing]

Originally Posted by mcmoustache

If people witnessed Jesus going up in the air into the clouds, this shows that heaven is either in or beyond the clouds.

Or the entrance to Heaven is clouded so it stays hidden from our sight?
The entrance of heaven cannot be in the clouds, because than the door would be closed on a cloudless day. I think the clouds serve more as a "curtain" - removing the transition from our eyes.

[Northclare]

Go back to a time in your life when you were young, innocent, and not caught up in Ego selfishness and materialism.

Now imagine heaven as you thought of it back then,it's that heaven I held onto....

Summer meadows with a river running through it.
You could sit down close your eyes and let the sound of that river take you to eternity..watch nature,feel the sun on my face,smell the ever lasting smell of floral delights....

I know some people who describe death as a pile of bones wrapped in rotten flesh and they turn into a blue bottle factory,that's their Idea of death,but turn that into a positive and you could describe them as a lord of the flies,they are of use to feeding flies or whatever else decides to take a bite
The flies,insects and bacteria live on and multiply...

Heaven is all around us if only we had the eyes to appreciate this planet and walk beautifuly on the earth.

Someone else described something about being a caterpillar and metamorphosis into something more beautiful like a butterfly...

You don't hear them guys called priests talking about metamorphosis or how beautiful our planet is.....

[chozometroid]

I see no reason to believe Heaven couldn't be in our universe. Where did the idea come from that spiritual things are in a different reality? Depends on what you mean by it, I guess. Maybe they are not recognized by our five senses, but I don't think angels, demons, heaven are all in some magical parallel universe. I think everything God has made mentioned in the Bible is part of the same "reality" and just of different natures.

I believe the New Jerusalem will descend to the Earth. There will be a new heavens and a new Earth, because the current Earth will be purged with fire. Whatever God has to do to make our new home free from sin and eternal will be done, basically.

Here is a good study on it if you care to read it: (I didn't read it all and it may not follow my beliefs exactly, but it appears to contain the relevant verses for this particular topic)
http://bible.org/seriespage/21-new-heaven-and-new-earth