"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

markpb · 27-03-2014 9:54pm

lxflyer wrote: »

As I posted above - yes people should tag in and out, if nothing else but to provide usage statistics, but I just cannot imagine anyone with a monthly/annual pass being penalised for not doing it, or even being threatened with a penalty.

I agree with the motive behind it but the reality is that the Luas system really isn't designed for the vast majority of passengers to interact with the validators, especially not the busier stops.

languagenerd · 27-03-2014 10:08pm

lxflyer wrote: »

It gives them travel information that they can use for travel planning and it gives them usage data for each stop.

However, I seriously doubt any annual pass holder would be fined for not tagging off. Where did you hear of that being suggested to annual pass holders?

Tagging on, not tagging off. Any Leap Card user who forgets to tag on gets a fine. If the inspectors check it and it's not tagged on, they don't know if it's got a valid annual ticket on it and should technically issue a fine like they would with any other Leap card.

One of my relatives has one and it malfunctioned. When he rang up he was told it HAD to be tagged on to be considered a valid ticket. No valid ticket = €45 fine.

Maybe they aren't doing it at the moment, but going by their rules and by-laws, they could.

Dravokivich · 27-03-2014 10:45pm

languagenerd wrote: »

Tagging on, not tagging off. Any Leap Card user who forgets to tag on gets a fine. If the inspectors check it and it's not tagged on, they don't know if it's got a valid annual ticket on it and should technically issue a fine like they would with any other Leap card.

One of my relatives has one and it malfunctioned. When he rang up he was told it HAD to be tagged on to be considered a valid ticket. No valid ticket = €45 fine.

Maybe they aren't doing it at the moment, but going by their rules and by-laws, they could.

Who did they ring? Any conditions for travelling are up to the operator. The leap card is just a medium for payment/validation.

To be honest im not even sure "all" inspectors know how to read the card. Ive been checked before and they placed my card right over the screen which would give them my travel details. They assumed I was fine becuase the device lit up green, which was only to tell them its been recognised.

languagenerd · 28-03-2014 12:54am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Who did they ring? Any conditions for travelling are up to the operator. The leap card is just a medium for payment/validation.

To be honest im not even sure "all" inspectors know how to read the card. Ive been checked before and they placed my card right over the screen which would give them my travel details. They assumed I was fine becuase the device lit up green, which was only to tell them its been recognised.

I'm not sure if he rang Luas or Leap, actually... I was there at the time but it could have been either.

But that's my point - if you forgot to tag, the machine wouldn't light up green. And how can the inspector know that you've an annual pass? Now, they'd probably waive a fine if you proved afterwards that you do, but it still seems like a load of extra hassle (for passenger and Luas staff alike).

bk · 28-03-2014 2:34am

languagenerd wrote: »

I'm not sure if he rang Luas or Leap, actually... I was there at the time but it could have been either.

But that's my point - if you forgot to tag, the machine wouldn't light up green. And how can the inspector know that you've an annual pass? Now, they'd probably waive a fine if you proved afterwards that you do, but it still seems like a load of extra hassle (for passenger and Luas staff alike).

His machine should be able to show all the tickets on the card. I assume there is a LCD screen on the ticket scanner that shows all the leap card information, not just a green light.

Dravokivich · 28-03-2014 11:30am

bk wrote: »

His machine should be able to show all the tickets on the card. I assume there is a LCD screen on the ticket scanner that shows all the leap card information, not just a green light.

Thats how it is yeah. Green light just meant the card was read.

Victor · 29-03-2014 7:40am

The important part is to keep the card up to date, which is much more important than the travel statistics.

The ticket has to be loaded onto the card. This may be an issue where someone gets monthly Taxsaver tickets and hte employer doesn't buy it on time.

It would be a lesser problem for annual ticket holders, but they should keep the discipline of tagging-on.

LXFlyer · 29-03-2014 8:00am

As Victor says you really should always tag on - whatever about tagging off.

adonai · 04-05-2014 10:51pm

hello guys [and girls] - I'm new here so just wanted to say hello!

...and to complain about recent 'great idea' to merge everyone to leap card...

I am just amazed how people are allowing to be misguided into thinking all of them will be paying even less due to cancellation of paper tickets from DublinBus which means we are all forced now to get LeapCard or pay absurd fees in cash (just try to imagine that you need exact change every day for the rest of your life

I've sent a letter to Luas, DublinBus and LeapCard demanding some answer, because nobody seems to know when (and if!) the Luas weekly ticket will be available on Leap Card? And also why there are no weekly Combi tickets (allowing to travel on Dublin Bus and Luas) for Leap Card yet? Actually, a lot of people travel daily to work by bus and then taking Luas. Combi tickets were reasonable enough.

Apparently, only Luas responded that:

--
"Luas only capping (Mon-Sun) is available on your Leapcard and the cost is €23.50 for unlimited travel over both lines. As of 1st May 2014 Luas/Dublin Bus combi tickets were withdrawn for sale by Dublin Bus and Luas. Leap Card, accepted across multiple public transport operators, is the closest alternative. The Leap Card 1 Day and 7 Caps will apply. Please visit Leapcard. ie for more information about Leap Card.

Alternatively customers can switch over to a Taxsaver Bus+Luas Annual or Monthly ticket which offer significant savings. Please visit Taxsaver. ie to find out more about Taxsaver Bus+Luas Annual or Monthly tickets.

The selection of Caps and the price of Caps were determined by NTA and any queries in relation to this should be directed to info at nationaltransport or 01 879830"

--
So basically, I can just accept it or not use their service anymore.

I am still waiting for the answer from others... It is just ridiculous we were already spending around €150.00 EUR monthly for travel and now it seem this will increase to over €200.00 EUR. For what? Constantly late buses from previous era?

Let me give you an example- if one lives in D15 and travels to city centre, and then takes Luas to get to work to Leopardstown, that person needs to purchase Dublin Bus tickets €2.60 EUR x 2 to get there and return and also Green Luas €2.30 EUR x 2. So this equals to €9.80 EUR.

Leap card capping equals €10.00 EUR so there is only €0.20 EUR difference.

It might be cheaper for people who live in the city centre and are using only one service, but if you are travelling by both bus and luas then you are gonna lose a lot of money. Just calculate it yourself... before you can get Combi ticket for €36.00 EUR and now you need to spend €23.50 plus €27.50 for weekly bus ticket. €51.00 EUR means a nice €15.00 EUR increase. I wonder when people start to notice this scam. And they try to sell it to us as something 'good' or even drop in prices... good one, LeapCard.

regards

punisher5112 · 04-05-2014 11:12pm

adonai wrote: »

hello guys [and girls] - I'm new here so just wanted to say hello!

...and to complain about recent 'great idea' to merge everyone to leap card...

I am just amazed how people are allowing to be misguided into thinking all of them will be paying even less due to cancellation of paper tickets from DublinBus which means we are all forced now to get LeapCard or pay absurd fees in cash (just try to imagine that you need exact change every day for the rest of your life

I've sent a letter to Luas, DublinBus and LeapCard demanding some answer, because nobody seems to know when (and if!) the Luas weekly ticket will be available on Leap Card? And also why there are no weekly Combi tickets (allowing to travel on Dublin Bus and Luas) for Leap Card yet? Actually, a lot of people travel daily to work by bus and then taking Luas. Combi tickets were reasonable enough.

Apparently, only Luas responded that:

--
"Luas only capping (Mon-Sun) is available on your Leapcard and the cost is €23.50 for unlimited travel over both lines. As of 1st May 2014 Luas/Dublin Bus combi tickets were withdrawn for sale by Dublin Bus and Luas. Leap Card, accepted across multiple public transport operators, is the closest alternative. The Leap Card 1 Day and 7 Caps will apply. Please visit Leapcard. ie for more information about Leap Card.

Alternatively customers can switch over to a Taxsaver Bus+Luas Annual or Monthly ticket which offer significant savings. Please visit Taxsaver. ie to find out more about Taxsaver Bus+Luas Annual or Monthly tickets.

The selection of Caps and the price of Caps were determined by NTA and any queries in relation to this should be directed to info at nationaltransport or 01 879830"

--
So basically, I can just accept it or not use their service anymore. I am still waiting for the answer from others... It is just ridiculous we were already spending around €150.00 EUR monthly for travel and now it seem this will increase to over €200.00 EUR. For what? Constantly late buses from previous era?

Let me give you an example- if one lives in D15 and travels to city centre, and then takes Luas to get to work to Leopardstown, that person needs to purchase Dublin Bus tickets €2.60 EUR x 2 to get there and return and also Green Luas €2.30 EUR x 2. So this equals to €9.80 EUR.

Leap card capping equals €10.00 EUR so there is only €0.20 EUR difference.

It might be cheaper for people who live in the city centre and are using only one service, but if you are travelling by both bus and luas then you are gonna lose a lot of money. Just calculate it yourself... before you can get Combi ticket for €36.00 EUR and now you need to spend €23.50 plus €27.50 for weekly bus ticket. €51.00 EUR means a nice €15.00 EUR increase. I wonder when people start to notice this scam. And they try to sell it to us as something 'good' or even drop in prices... good one, LeapCard.

regards

DB are the ones that invested a huge amount of money into this Leap card system and Real Time Info.

The fares on leap are €1.45, €1.95, €2.15, €2.50 Cash €1.80, €2.35, €2.60, €3.05.

Daily cap on DB is €6.90 on Leap.

I am actually quite confused at how many are complaining about this been so unfair and expensive.

My car uses more then that when I just turn the key.

Student get cap of €5.

I dont know much about Luas prices as they have on/off peak prices.

Yes I agree there could be improvements to the service but it does help having real time available at certain stops and on any phone with the internet and the text option is still there to tell you next 3 buses that will be passing.

noelfirl · 04-05-2014 11:33pm

adonai wrote: »

It might be cheaper for people who live in the city centre and are using only one service, but if you are travelling by both bus and luas then you are gonna lose a lot of money. Just calculate it yourself... before you can get Combi ticket for €36.00 EUR and now you need to spend €23.50 plus €27.50 for weekly bus ticket. €51.00 EUR means a nice €15.00 EUR increase. I wonder when people start to notice this scam. And they try to sell it to us as something 'good' or even drop in prices... good one, LeapCard.

Just on that point, a person in that situation would be better off availing of the multi-operator cap on Leap, which would be €40 for their bus and Luas transport over any given Mon-Sun period. Granted, still a €4 increase, but no need to pay €51.

adonai · 04-05-2014 11:34pm

hmmm sounds fair enough- but how that works?

how does one 'turn this on'? any arrangements need to be made?

noelfirl · 04-05-2014 11:42pm

adonai wrote: »

hmmm sounds fair enough- but how that works?

how does one 'turn this on'? any arrangements need to be made?

None. Just put at least €40 on the card and use it as normal on the bus and Luas. When you hit the cap, it will just stop charging you until the following Monday morning.

More info here

adonai · 04-05-2014 11:47pm

ok I've found some info on leapcard main website in the same second as you have posted it

which says:

Dublin Leap Caps: Capping across Dublin Bus, Luas, DART & Commuter

Commuter Daily Cap (€)

10.00*

Commuter Weekly Cap (€ Mon-Sun)

40.00*

Once you hit the Cap value on the applicable transport operator, no further Travel Credit will be deducted as you use your Leap Card on their services. Please note, even once you hit the Cap value, you should still Touch On and Touch Off as normal in order to have a valid ticket.
---

OK... so the only requirement is to have a plus balance of EUR 40.00 on the card, start travelling on Monday and the rest just works itself out? Is is still required to say the destination to the bus driver on one's first journey, though?

punisher5112 · 04-05-2014 11:51pm

adonai wrote: »

ok I've found some info on leapcard main website in the same second as you have posted it which says:

Dublin Leap Caps: Capping across Dublin Bus, Luas, DART & Commuter

Commuter Daily Cap (€)

10.00*

Commuter Weekly Cap (€ Mon-Sun)

40.00*

Once you hit the Cap value on the applicable transport operator, no further Travel Credit will be deducted as you use your Leap Card on their services. Please note, even once you hit the Cap value, you should still Touch On and Touch Off as normal in order to have a valid ticket.
---

OK... so the only requirement is to have a plus balance of EUR 40.00 on the card, start travelling on Monday and the rest just works itself out? Is is still required to say the destination to the bus driver on one's first journey, though?

No because you plan on using cap just tag onto machine to right of door.

adonai · 05-05-2014 12:02am

My inmost thanks & kudos for explaining this to me!

punisher5112 · 05-05-2014 12:03am

adonai wrote: »

My inmost thanks & kudos for explaining this to me!

You will be one less customer using my machine which in turn speeds up the whole process as the machines we have to work with aren't able to handle all the fares and changes.;)

markpb · 05-05-2014 6:52am

adonai wrote: »

so the only requirement is to have a plus balance of EUR 40.00 on the card, start travelling on Monday and the rest just works itself out? Is is still required to say the destination to the bus driver on one's first journey, though?

I don't think you need to topup all €40 in one go but I could be wrong. You must have enough balance on your card to pay for each individual trip until the cap is hit.

adonai · 05-05-2014 12:10pm

it's sad this is nowhere explained in so much details. all there is I can explain as confusion

Victor · 07-05-2014 11:10am

adonai wrote: »

OK... so the only requirement is to have a plus balance of EUR 40.00 on the card, start travelling on Monday and the rest just works itself out? Is is still required to say the destination to the bus driver on one's first journey, though?

You should only need to have enough money for your current journey. You don't need the whole €40 from the start.

The Black Oil · 07-05-2014 9:58pm

Looking for some clarity here.

I've a Leap card, which I use for train and infrequent bus travel. I use a paper 30 day rambler for work as I'm using 4 buses on those days. I know these tickets are on their way out now due to the move towards Leap.

If add a 30 day adult rambler to the Leap, how does the system know what to deduct and when? Do I tag on at the right hand side for the days I use 4 buses? I don't want money taken off the cash balance incorrectly. So, if my bus travel is just two trips do I always go to the driver in those instances?

Thanks.

LXFlyer · 07-05-2014 10:11pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

Looking for some clarity here.

I've a Leap card, which I use for train and infrequent bus travel. I use a paper 30 day rambler for work as I'm using 4 buses on those days. I know these tickets are on their way out now due to the move towards Leap.

If add a 30 day adult rambler to the Leap, how does the system know what to deduct and when? Do I tag on at the right hand side for the days I use 4 buses? I don't want money taken off the cash balance incorrectly. So, if my bus travel is just two trips do I always go to the driver in those instances?

Thanks.

If you want to pay using the purse, go to the driver, but if you want to use a day of your rambler ticket, then use the reader on the right.

Seaswimmer · 13-05-2014 2:52pm

Anyone else having problems with the verification code for auto top up?

I signed up, got the credit transfer of 5c into my account but I am missing the last 6 digits of the verification code in my statement.

Rang Leap who told me to ring the bank (EBS). Rang them but they can only see the same code as what I see.

rang Leap again and now I am told it could be a known problem with electronic payments to certain financial institutions.

Its apparently being escalated within Leap but has anyone else had the issue and more importantly how did you resolve it??

Victor · 14-05-2014 12:10am

As mentioned, auto top-up is now available. I've had it for about a year and have had no particular problems other than a direct debit going through when I wasn't expecting it. They have corrected this by issuing an e-mail before the direct debit is submitted.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-leap-card-auto-top-up-function-now-in-place-offering-additional-convenience-for-consumers/

Údarás Náisiúnta Iompair, National Transport Authority

New Leap Card Auto Top-Up function now in place offering additional convenience for consumers
13th May 2014

National Transport Authority & Minister Kelly mark 500,000th Leap Card sale with prize giveaway

Auto Top-Up

Public Transport Minister Alan Kelly and the National Transport Authority have announced an important new enhancement of its service to users: Auto Top-Up. This is an opt-in addition to the Leap Card’s current ticketing functions, and offers the user the facility to automatically reload their Card with value for a pre-determined amount from their bank account when the value on their Leap Card falls below a certain threshold. Registered Leap Card users can opt-in by signing into their online account at LeapCard.ie.

Minister Alan Kelly said: “Auto top-up represents an important step forward for Leap card users. Commuters who chose it will simply not have to worry about topping-up again and travel easily across the various transport modes served by Leap. When their leap card runs low on credit, it will automatically be topped up from their bank account by the amount they decide,”

Gerry Murphy, Chief Executive of the Authority said: “We are delighted to add the Auto Top-Up service to our very popular Leap Card. For consumers who chose to opt-in, it gives a substantially more convenient service, in that they will never again have to remember to top their cards up between journeys when the value of their Travel Credit is running low.”

500,000th Leap Card

Sales of Leap Card, the integrated public transport ticket, have now broken through the magic half-a-million mark, and to celebrate this significant milestone, the National Transport Authority ran a competition – the winner of which is today announced as Ciara Harte of Rush, Co Dublin. Ciara wins the 500,000th Leap Card plus a one-for-all voucher for €500, which were presented to her this morning by Alan Kelly TD, Minister for Public and Commuter Transport. In addition, Wendy Twomey of Raheny won a further one-for-all voucher for €500 in a competition to promote registration of cards on the LeapCard.ie website.

Since its launch two-and-a-half years ago, the Leap Card has been warmly welcomed by users. More than €1,250,000-worth of journeys are taken in a typical week on the 500,000 Cards now in circulation.

Minister Alan Kelly said: “500,000 Cards is an important landmark and it has exceeded everyone's expectations including mine as Minister. With some 250,000 journeys per week-day taken using Leap, the Leap Card represents a major achievement in a short space of time. The next phase will be to develop Leap Card further in Cork as well as moving it to other cities. Leap accounts for 47 million passenger journeys since its inception I look forward to progressing it further in future."

LXFlyer · 14-05-2014 12:56pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Anyone else having problems with the verification code for auto top up?

I signed up, got the credit transfer of 5c into my account but I am missing the last 6 digits of the verification code in my statement.

Rang Leap who told me to ring the bank (EBS). Rang them but they can only see the same code as what I see.

rang Leap again and now I am told it could be a known problem with electronic payments to certain financial institutions.

Its apparently being escalated within Leap but has anyone else had the issue and more importantly how did you resolve it??

I did have that problem initially, but the narrative on the bank statement has subsequently expanded to include the full code.

Victor · 14-05-2014 1:40pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Rang Leap who told me to ring the bank (EBS). Rang them but they can only see the same code as what I see.

It seems to be down to how EBS handle the new bank file formats (SEPA credit transfer files). EBS is the only bank that they have this issue with.

If you wish, contact me via PM and I can put you in contact with someone in the NTA.

Stevek101 · 14-05-2014 2:43pm

How long should it take a direct debit to go through. Been about 7 working days now and nothing...

Victor · 14-05-2014 9:16pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

How long should it take a direct debit to go through. Been about 7 working days now and nothing...

It should be less than that.

Fred Swanson · 14-05-2014 9:18pm

This post has been deleted.

Seaswimmer · 15-05-2014 11:42am

Victor wrote: »

It seems to be down to how EBS handle the new bank file formats (SEPA credit transfer files). EBS is the only bank that they have this issue with.

If you wish, contact me via PM and I can put you in contact with someone in the NTA.

Thanks Victor.

Quick update.

Got a call back from someone in EBS this morning and they were finally able to give me the verification codes for the 2 cards I was registering for auto top up. It did take a lot of phone calls and emails so if you end up in a similar situation dont give up. The verification codes are available, it just takes the right person to get them.

"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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