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Arm the Gardai?

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12467

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    #92
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Anyone remember the time they got the new baton? 80% of them were just issued it when they turned up for work with no formal training or anything

    Yes,don't make accusations like that without evidence to back them up.

    80% sounds absolutely absurd,that is the equivalent of giving 80% of the DF weapons without any training.Also,the media would have been all over a story like that


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    #93
    civdef
    Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    Divers, making stuff up is not encouraged on this forum. Please either substantiate your claims, or withdraw them.


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    #94
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    every guard had to hand in their old baton at the training site so as to recieve the new ones which were only issued to the gards at the end of about 9 hours training by the authorised trainer working for the baton company.


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    #95
    sunnyjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭sunnyjim


    Eroo wrote:
    ALL Gardai came out of Templemore with basic training on Revolvers in the past,due to the Troubles and massive amount of armed robbery's.

    Sure about that?

    Any Garda here confirm this? I thought it was done away with.


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    #96
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    sunnyjim wrote: »
    Sure about that?

    Any Garda here confirm this? I thought it was done away with.

    Please read my post again...I said all Gardai CAME out of Templemore w/ firearms training in revolvers...i.e.in the past


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    #97
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Calling what was done down in Templemore as 'basic firearms training' is stretching it a fair bit, familiarisation would be a more accurate term. The Phase 5 students used to get a brief introduction & safe handling lecture, then got to fire off a few rounds.


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    #98
    Mweelrea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭Mweelrea


    if the gardai were armed wouldn't that lead to an increase in gangs armouries?


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    #99
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Mweelrea wrote: »
    if the gardai were armed wouldn't that lead to an increase in gangs armouries?

    Ahh, that is what is really one of the underlying arguments behind arming the Gardai...

    I myself think slightly perhaps, but public safety would still increase due to the arming of the Gardai. Basically, the positive effects would far outweigh the negative in my opinion.


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    #100
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    the locust wrote: »
    "Anyone remember the time they got the new baton? 80% of them were just issued it when they turned up for work with no formal training or anything."

    Thats not true they all did a baton course before being allowed to carry them

    This is partly true. I think back in the 80's the gardai purchased night-sticks which were i think issued and redrawn due to lack of training.


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    #101
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Mweelrea wrote: »
    if the gardai were armed wouldn't that lead to an increase in gangs armouries?

    i don't see this as a valid argument for not arming the gardai, I mean look at the situation here in Limerick. Grenades, rpg's, assault rifles, handguns, these are but a few weapons the local gangs have available and that's without bringing the explosives into it. I don't see how giving every garda a sig or a glock is going to make the gangs think, "christ the gards have guns lads.....we better get a bloody tank" cos that's about the only type of weapon these people don't have.


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    #102
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    foinse wrote: »
    i don't see this as a valid argument for not arming the gardai, I mean look at the situation here in Limerick. Grenades, rpg's, assault rifles, handguns, these are but a few weapons the local gangs have available and that's without bringing the explosives into it. I don't see how giving every garda a sig or a glock is going to make the gangs think, "christ the gards have guns lads.....we better get a bloody tank" cos that's about the only type of weapon these people don't have.

    How many gardai have been shot in Limerick in say the last decade? How many gardai have been shot in Ireland in the last 10 years?

    How many gardai deaths would have been prevented due to them being armed? Serious question there. I cant think of even one.

    Specialist units who face the armed criminals, gangland, drug, family fueds etc etc should be armed with the best equipment and extremely well trained.

    Do the gardai even have their own shooting range?? As far as i am aware they dont.

    It is insane to arm all rank and file gardai due to gangland crime or family/drug fueds.


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    #103
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Let's be honest here, leaving the hardened armed criminals aside, to get away from the guards now you just have to out-number them at the time. A pair of un-armed Gardaí are no match for a gang of maybe 7 or 8 thugs now matter how well trained they are. They could take a serious hiding before backup arrived, if ever.

    Would the thugs take on two armed Gardaí in the same circumstances?
    I don't think so.
    Would armed Gardaí be more feared by criminals than un-armed Gardaí?
    Damn right.

    An un-armed law enforcement agency is an anachronism in the 21st century.
    It might look cute for the tourists like the "British Bobby" but the world has moved on from the days of shouting "Stop thief".

    My 2c + vat.


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    #104
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    There is no need for GS to be armed.We don't live in a society dominated by guns.It isn't a case of people being shot dead every week and I would imagine that uniformed Gardai aren't coming up against armed crims on a daily basis...so why arm the Gardai?


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    #105
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Hagar wrote: »
    Let's be honest here, leaving the hardened armed criminals aside, to get away from the guards now you just have to out-number them at the time. A pair of un-armed Gardaí are no match for a gang of maybe 7 or 8 thugs now matter how well trained they are. They could take a serious hiding before backup arrived, if ever.

    Would the thugs take on two armed Gardaí in the same circumstances?
    I don't think so.
    Would armed Gardaí be more feared by criminals than un-armed Gardaí?
    Damn right.

    An un-armed law enforcement agency is an anachronism in the 21st century.
    It might look cute for the tourists like the "British Bobby" but the world has moved on from the days of shouting "Stop thief".

    My 2c + vat.

    I agree completely with Hagar.


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    #106
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Video article on Sky News site today that might be of interest. IMO this is the kind of high visibility stuff that the Guards could do with in places like Limerick and Dublin. Take a look here.


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    #107
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Tbh,thats what armed units are doing in trouble spots.It wouldn't be anywhere near as specialised as that unless ERU etc were on patrol


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    #108
    the locust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭the locust


    I think thats the way things are going, and it doesnt have to be an ERU exclusive job. It just takes time to train an accountable ARV type unit...


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    #109
    the locust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭the locust


    PS - heard the GS are getting MP7's to replace the UZI's at long last...


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    #110
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    metman wrote: »
    Video article on Sky News site today that might be of interest. IMO this is the kind of high visibility stuff that the Guards could do with in places like Limerick and Dublin. Take a look here.
    More of this would be great, once they don't get too power happy and start harrassing people while doing the stops.


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    #111
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    random wrote: »
    More of this would be great, once they don't get too power happy and start harrassing people while doing the stops.

    The officers filmed are from CO20/TSG.

    In the UK Police have powers under the Terrorism Act to stop any person or vehicle for the purposes of a search, without any grounds, provided the stop takes place within an authorised area. Despite this blanket power, complaints are, surprisingly, few. The officers portrayed in this film have no more powers than, and are as accountable as, any other police officer in the UK.


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    #112
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    I have not read the entire thread so apologies if what I say has already been said.

    I do not think the Gardai should be armed as a whole. The country does not need it and to be honest I would not trust the mentality of some officers.

    What I would like to see is the ERU increased & dispatched around the country targeting areas where they are needed most & not just confined to Dublin as a base.

    Also, I would like to see the introduction of of the retractable ASP or PR24 baton, CS spray & Kwick Cuffs for officers, for their improved safety.

    I notice the vests are in so that is a step in the right direction. We would then be on a par with The UK's Police Service. Safety is paramount for law enforcers.

    The Met is not armed and rightly so for the same reasons as above. They have Armed Response Units (ARV's) to back them up, and also the Diplomatic Protection Group (DPG) albeit they are not encouraged to intervene but are there never the less.


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    #113
    JonAnderton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Slight amendment to the above. While the DPG are careful not to get involved in anything that will take them away fromtheir core responsability and more imporantly, prevent them from supporting the fixed post officers, some officers in the DPG are quite keen to get involved in whatever they come across. Also, in the last few weeks DPG ARV's instigated the arrest of two men in possession of a firearm in Trafalgar Square on New Years Eve. Back in July, they got this bloke http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6294410.stm and there was another recent incident which I wont go into details about as I'm not sure how much has been made public.

    There's many more that I won't go into

    Sorry to go on, but not all of the DPG are lazy, moany old c***s... lol


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    #114
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    JonAnderton wrote: »
    Sorry to go on, but not all of the DPG are lazy, moany old c***s... lol

    Doors, Porches, Gates by any chance? :D


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    #115
    JonAnderton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Thats what they say...


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    #116
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    What I would like to see is the ERU increased & dispatched around the country targeting areas where they are needed most & not just confined to Dublin as a base

    That is already the case.Just because you don't hear about the ERU being around,doesn't mean they aren't there;)


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    #117
    Faheywitane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭Faheywitane


    fishdog wrote: »

    I dont think so, but I may be wrong. The H&K USP is fantastic.

    You are wrong, FN Hi-power has been replaced all across
    the DF by the H&K USP.


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    #118
    Mutz
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭Mutz


    eroo wrote: »
    There is no need for GS to be armed.We don't live in a society dominated by guns.It isn't a case of people being shot dead every week and I would imagine that uniformed Gardai aren't coming up against armed crims on a daily basis...so why arm the Gardai?

    Sorry Eroo, just read your post there and I think you are incorrect.

    It is usually uniformed gardai (and young gardai at that) that come face to face with these armed criminals and they are always first at scene. The armed response is always way off.

    Not that I'm encouraging arming the Gardai but it is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed.


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    #119
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Mutz wrote: »
    Sorry Eroo, just read your post there and I think you are incorrect.

    It is usually uniformed gardai (and young gardai at that) that come face to face with these armed criminals and they are always first at scene. The armed response is always way off.

    Not that I'm encouraging arming the Gardai but it is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Mate I never said that it wasn't uniformed Gardai who came up against armed criminals.I said uniformed Gardai weren't encountering armed crim's on a daily basis so there wouldn't be any need to arm every uniform Garda.After all,there are certain area's in the country that will only ever see gun crime on a rare occasion due to armed robberies,siege situ's(rare).Now,don't get me wrong,ANY Garda can encounter an armed crim at ANY time..but to arm an entire force on that basis would be wrong..as the need for the uniformed Gardai to use these weapons would not be very high.
    People would be better off in general addressing situations more critical to the Gardai such as a proper radio system(much more important than guns),proper cars,proper stations and more Govt investment.The Govt cant sort out current problems fast enough,so how would they handle something like this?After all,what would the point be in having armed uniform Gardai who can't keep in constant contact with station.


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    #120
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    eroo wrote: »
    Now,don't get me wrong,ANY Garda can encounter an armed crim at ANY time..but to arm an entire force on that basis would be wrong.
    I would have thought that would be perfect justification to arm the Gardaí.


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    #121
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    But how many times do uniformed Gardai actually encounter armed crim's each year on average?Is it enough to arm EVERY Garda?

    Tbh,I believe being unarmed means that Gardai have to be more innovative and will gain more experience by resolving situations without using a firearm.


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