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Separate uniforms for GR.. Yes/No....

  • 17-04-2014 7:34am
    #1
    Mc Jakester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭


    The Association of Garda Sergeant and Inspectors (AGSI) delegates have unanimously backed a call at their annual conference for a separate uniform for volunteer members of the Garda Reserve to distinguish them from full time members of the force.
    Eddie Golden of Cork north told the conference that currently there was insufficient differentiation in uniforms between full time officers who have completed years of training and volunteer reservists who have only completed minimum training.
    “To a member of the public attending a major event or socialising in any town or city we feel that the only differentiation at present is the GR on the epaulettes in front of the divisional number and we do not believe that is enough,” he said.
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    “This, to the public at large, means absolutely nothing. Even to a supervisory member at a large event at a distance, they can’t be easily seen. Garda Reserves are indistinguishable to the majority by virtue of wearing identical uniform to the full time members.
    “We can perhaps laugh at the one of the YouTube hits in 2013 of the dancing reserve at Independence in Mitchelstown but was it clear from this video that it was a Garda Reserve on the stage and not a full time member? I don’t think so.”
    Mr Golden said police in other jurisdictions ensure their reserve officers wear a distinctive epaulette cover or a rocker panel on the chest or even a distinct title on the back of their fluorescent jackets to clearly identify them to their colleagues and members of the public.
    “The Garda Reserve have a role to play in the modern police force, but it should be very clear to members of the public who are the volunteer members and who are the full time members,” said Mr Golden.
    Brian O’Dea of AGSI’s national executive backed the motion, pointing out that in the UK, members of the counterpart of the Garda Reserve, the Special Constables wear a uniform that is very different from the regular force.
    “Originally, reserve gardaí were to wear a band around their hat to distinguish themselves from ordinary gardaí, but the reserve gardaí rejected that proposal and the current reserve Garda uniform does not distinguish themselves from ordinary gardaí,” he said.
    The establishment of The Garda Reserve was provided for by the Garda Síochána Act 2005 with the first reservists passing out in a graduation ceremony in 2006 and to date over 1,000 people have served as members of the reserve where they assist the existing force


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    magumadoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭magumadoo


    I'm a serving garda reserve and this uniform issue is nonsense, if a member of the public needs to speak to a full time member a reserve garda should be with or within shouting distance of the a full time garda weather on the beat, mobile patrol or in the public office of a station. Public order incidents I believe requiring a uniformed response, should be just thats UNIFORMED.


  • #3
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Mc Jakester wrote: »
    Brian O’Dea of AGSI’s national executive backed the motion, pointing out that in the UK, members of the counterpart of the Garda Reserve, the Special Constables wear a uniform that is very different from the regular force.

    Well that's bull****, first off PCSO (Police community support officers)are completly seperate than the SPC, and the Specials over there can and do undercover work.


  • #4
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    There a lot more important issues than this. How many motions have been made by AGSI and the GRA over the years.... How many ever get accepted....???????
    There are more serious issues which need to addressed.
    What would happen if a GR was targeted on the street because of their rank and their reduced powers. Would make some legal precedent dont you think.


  • #5
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Raider190 wrote: »
    There a lot more important issues than this. How many motions have been made by AGSI and the GRA over the years.... How many ever get accepted....???????
    There are more serious issues which need to addressed.
    What would happen if a GR was targeted on the street because of their rank and their reduced powers. Would make some legal precedent dont you think.

    Health & Safety would be a big player in this and i think AGS are aware of this, can you imagine the publicity that would come out of this should a GR be injured, the media would have a field day not to mention the claim that would ensue.


  • #6
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    bluetop wrote: »
    Health & Safety would be a big player in this and i think AGS are aware of this, can you imagine the publicity that would come out of this should a GR be injured, the media would have a field day not to mention the claim that would ensue.[/quote

    Exactly so can't see it happening


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  • #7
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Yes, there should be seperate uniforms, the public should know that the person in the uniform is a reserve and not full time with full time powers. Nurses have different uniforms depending on qualifications. I see reserves on their own more and more at events etc against regulations and it's masking that lack of real resources on the ground. I think the fact managers in AGS have looked for this is there way of saying that it's not working and in fact a waste of resources. This government would put cut out card board images of gardai on the street if they thought they would get away with it, actually they would take less minding by full time members who could get on with the real job!


  • #8
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Yes, there should be seperate uniforms, the public should know that the person in the uniform is a reserve and not full time with full time powers. Nurses have different uniforms depending on qualifications. I see reserves on their own more and more at events etc against regulations and it's masking that lack of real resources on the ground. I think the fact managers in AGS have looked for this is there way of saying that it's not working and in fact a waste of resources. This government would put cut out card board images of gardai on the street if they thought they would get away with it, actually they would take less minding by full time members who could get on with the real job!

    I understand what you are saying. But at the end of the day, it comes down to not only the Reserve saying I am not to be on my own I need a full time member with me but also a Full time member putting there foot down and saying the Reserve should not be on his own. Maybe it's a cause of the full timer not opening there mouth cause they will be stuck with the Reserve.

    I mean, would a Full time member put up with Reserves driving cars around because they were told? No way.

    Been blunt, Garda are there to enforce the law, if they can't even enforce there own regulations. It's very clear, under no circumstances should a Reserve member ever be left to do police work without a full time member to oversee there actions.

    I have posted on here before regards the topic of overtime for Garda that us Reserves are apparently taking off members. At these events, Garda overtime is set in stone. Say 10,000 euro for an event. Once this is used up, they call on the Reserves. Like a Reserve water tank, it comes into play once the main pool is used up. So regardless if the Reserve was here or wasn't that O/T is at 10,000 and if there's a problem getting Garda to work at the event they will force members from other stations to attend the event.

    So it comes down to this and I think members should vote on it.

    Do full timers want the help from the Reserve or not.

    It's simple stuff, non of this pissing around with uniforms and powers. If the vote is yes, uniform stays and more powers are granted. If not the Reserve is disbanded end of story.


  • #9
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    msg11 wrote: »
    I understand what you are saying. But at the end of the day, it comes down to not only the Reserve saying I am not to be on my own I need a full time member with me but also a Full time member putting there foot down and saying the Reserve should not be on his own. Maybe it's a cause of the full timer not opening there mouth cause they will be stuck with the Reserve.

    I mean, would a Full time member put up with Reserves driving cars around because they were told? No way.

    Been blunt, Garda are there to enforce the law, if they can't even enforce there own regulations. It's very clear, under no circumstances should a Reserve member ever be left to do police work without a full time member to oversee there actions.

    I have posted on here before regards the topic of overtime for Garda that us Reserves are apparently taking off members. At these events, Garda overtime is set in stone. Say 10,000 euro for an event. Once this is used up, they call on the Reserves. Like a Reserve water tank, it comes into play once the main pool is used up. So regardless if the Reserve was here or wasn't that O/T is at 10,000 and if there's a problem getting Garda to work at the event they will force members from other stations to attend the event.

    So it comes down to this and I think members should vote on it.

    Do full timers want the help from the Reserve or not.

    It's simple stuff, non of this pissing around with uniforms and powers. If the vote is yes, uniform stays and more powers are granted. If not the Reserve is disbanded end of story.

    Full time members regularily point it out, but management turn a blind eye because it's policing on the cheap, like I said if they could use card board cut outs they would! 90% of full time members would scrap the reserve in the morning and put the money saved towards recruiting full time members or towards getting extra vehicles IMO.


  • #10
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Is this topic about uniforms or reserves on their own ?? This is also not about FT and PT start another topic if you wish to discuss this matter please, maybe now we can get back on topic of Uniforms


  • #11
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    bluetop wrote: »
    Is this topic about uniforms or reserves on their own ?? This is also not about FT and PT start another topic if you wish to discuss this matter please, maybe now we can get back on topic of Uniforms

    How is it not?


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  • #12
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    msg11 wrote: »
    I understand what you are saying. But at the end of the day, it comes down to not only the Reserve saying I am not to be on my own I need a full time member with me but also a Full time member putting there foot down and saying the Reserve should not be on his own. Maybe it's a cause of the full timer not opening there mouth cause they will be stuck with the Reserve.

    I mean, would a Full time member put up with Reserves driving cars around because they were told? No way.

    Been blunt, Garda are there to enforce the law, if they can't even enforce there own regulations. It's very clear, under no circumstances should a Reserve member ever be left to do police work without a full time member to oversee there actions.

    I have posted on here before regards the topic of overtime for Garda that us Reserves are apparently taking off members. At these events, Garda overtime is set in stone. Say 10,000 euro for an event. Once this is used up, they call on the Reserves. Like a Reserve water tank, it comes into play once the main pool is used up. So regardless if the Reserve was here or wasn't that O/T is at 10,000 and if there's a problem getting Garda to work at the event they will force members from other stations to attend the event.

    So it comes down to this and I think members should vote on it.

    Do full timers want the help from the Reserve or not.

    It's simple stuff, non of this pissing around with uniforms and powers. If the vote is yes, uniform stays and more powers are granted. If not the Reserve is disbanded end of story.

    They cannot get enough regulars to cover the events. After tax the overtime is just not worth it


  • #13
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    I see reserves on their own more and more at events etc against regulations and it's masking that lack of real resources on the ground. I think the fact managers in AGS have looked for this is there way of saying that it's not working and in fact a waste of resources. This government would put cut out card board images of gardai on the street if they thought they would get away with it, actually they would take less minding by full time members who could get on with the real job!

    Try this part for a start do you think if they changed the uniform that would make and difference to a reserve been on their own.

    Guys this is all waffle we all know that AGSI and GRA dont want us under any circumstance and have not done so since 2006, have they been able to make any head way in changing things "nope" so this is like putting the cart before the horse.

    They just like to hear themselves rant on so let them have their say is it going to change things most certainty not, under health & safety guidelines this would put the Reserve in the front line of fire, now maybe thats what the AGSI want, just remember when you are out with a FT he or she is 100% responsible for you, as the GRA have said time and time using their words not mine they are BabySitting the Reserves, it should be the same as it is in the Uk independent patrol then the Reserve is is responsible for his or her actions plain and simple, this is what the GRA wanted no independent patrol that was part of the deal for letting it in now its in they dont want it either way, well guys too late its in and i dont ever see it been mooted out, or changing of uniforms either.


  • #14
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    bluetop wrote: »
    Try this part for a start do you think if they changed the uniform that would make and difference to a reserve been on their own.

    Guys this is all waffle we all know that AGSI and GRA dont want us under any circumstance and have not done so since 2006, have they been able to make any head way in changing things "nope" so this is like putting the cart before the horse.

    They just like to hear themselves rant on so let them have their say is it going to change things most certainty not, under health & safety guidelines this would put the Reserve in the front line of fire, now maybe thats what the AGSI want, just remember when you are out with a FT he or she is 100% responsible for you, as the GRA have said time and time using their words not mine they are BabySitting the Reserves, it should be the same as it is in the Uk independent patrol then the Reserve is is responsible for his or her actions plain and simple, this is what the GRA wanted no independent patrol that was part of the deal for letting it in now its in they dont want it either way, well guys too late its in and i dont ever see it been mooted out, or changing of uniforms either.

    Why would reserves be in the line of fire?


  • #15
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Why would reserves be in the line of fire?

    Shady have you spoken face to face with any reserve's. If you have or had
    You would realise that contery to popular belief on any given day reserves put themselves at personal risk along with their full time colleagues in order to ensure the safety of the public


  • #16
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Yes, there should be seperate uniforms, the public should know that the person in the uniform is a reserve and not full time with full time powers. Nurses have different uniforms depending on qualifications. I see reserves on their own more and more at events etc against regulations and it's masking that lack of real resources on the ground. I think the fact managers in AGS have looked for this is there way of saying that it's not working and in fact a waste of resources. This government would put cut out card board images of gardai on the street if they thought they would get away with it, actually they would take less minding by full time members who could get on with the real job!

    In your opinion only


  • #17
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Shady have you spoken face to face with any reserve's. If you have or had
    You would realise that contery to popular belief on any given day reserves put themselves at personal risk along with their full time colleagues in order to ensure the safety of the public

    Why would a wearing a different uniform matter so unless reserves want to be able to give the impression they are full time and don't want people knowing they are reserves. They shouldn't have a problem wearing it, student garda had light blue epaulettes in the past and were easily identifiable as students and it wasn't a big problem.


  • #18
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Raider190 wrote: »
    In your opinion only

    Yes and the vast majority of full time members!


  • #19
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Why would a wearing a different uniform matter so unless reserves want to be able to give the impression they are full time and don't want people knowing they are reserves. They shouldn't have a problem wearing it, student garda had light blue epaulettes in the past and were easily identifiable as students and it wasn't a big problem.

    You obviously have no experience and no idea what happens on the street. Attested members are no longer considered to be a students whether there regular or reserve


  • #20
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Yes and the vast majority of full time members!

    Not in my station or my unit. And how would you know...,..have you taken a poll


  • #21
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Shady have you spoken face to face with any reserve's. If you have or had
    You would realise that contery to popular belief on any given day reserves put themselves at personal risk along with their full time colleagues in order to ensure the safety of the public

    No answer to my question shady


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  • #22
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    It's very evident from the start that full time Gardai did not and still don't want the Reserves. Saying otherwise won't change that. It was a Government scheme aimed at undermining the full time service and providing a cut price police force. The uproar from Reserves that have not got through the recruitment highlights the false promises of government


  • #23
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    It's very evident from the start that full time Gardai did not and still don't want the Reserves. Saying otherwise won't change that. It was a Government scheme aimed at undermining the full time service and providing a cut price police force. The uproar from Reserves that have not got through the recruitment highlights the false promises of government

    Totally disagree. Where was this uproar recorded please quote your source. was it published anywhere, was a Poll taken of the 1250 plus reserves taken and I didn't get the email


  • #24
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Totally disagree. Where was this uproar recorded please quote your source. was it published anywhere, was a Poll taken of the 1250 plus reserves taken and I didn't get the email

    Wasn't there a forum running on it here that had to be closed down and a few banned including meself and yourself, remember?


  • #25
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Wasn't there a forum running on it here that had to be closed down and a few banned including meself and yourself, remember?

    There are 1275 reserve's a few post here. Can this be considered an up roar I think not.


  • #26
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    magumadoo wrote: »
    I'm a serving garda reserve and this uniform issue is nonsense, if a member of the public needs to speak to a full time member a reserve garda should be with or within shouting distance of the a full time garda weather on the beat, mobile patrol or in the public office of a station. Public order incidents I believe requiring a uniformed response, should be just thats UNIFORMED.

    Totally agree there is so much unqualified opinion on this forum it staggers belief. Some have never even spoken to a reserve let alone know what role or duties we perform.


  • #27
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Totally agree there is so much unqualified opinion on this forum it staggers belief. Some have never even spoken to a reserve let alone know what role or duties we perform.

    I prefer to speak to the organ grinder


  • #28
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Totally agree there is so much unqualified opinion on this forum it staggers belief. Some have never even spoken to a reserve let alone know what role or duties we perform.

    I'm a full time member, i think that might qualify me to have an opinion!


  • #29
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    I prefer to speak to the organ grinder

    Are we now to assume that you are calling reserves monkeys


  • #30
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    I'm a full time member, i think that might qualify me to have an opinion!

    Are you really .......didn't get that impression from your previous posts


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  • #31
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Raider190 wrote: »
    Are you really .......didn't get that impression from your previous posts

    Yes I am, I don't go around blowing ****e about it like you do with your 4 hours a week with little powers or responsibility. It's the likes of you who have turned me fully against the reserve. There are good reserves out there who get on with their role and don't act as if they are full time or know it all and I'll work with them any day of the week, but I refuse to go out on the street with likes of you because your arrogant and a liability.


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