Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

No invoice for decorating job

Options
  • 27-08-2014 6:07pm
    #1
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,618 ✭✭✭✭


    Recent decoration job carried out and decorator assured me he would give a receipt at the end (hence my assumption he is charging VAT on the job etc), so I go ahead with the job and pay in cash with promise that receipt will be given to me (in retrospect I should have withheld cash, but the guy seemed trustworthy enough so I thought nothing of it).

    Days pass.. no receipt... enquire with decorator who claims it was a cash job (although I have written confirmation from him that there would be no problem getting receipt).

    The company has a website, although there are no VAT details (again I probably should have ticked).

    So...eh... do I just name and shame the company publicly and move on, or can I go through a complaints process to put some pressure on the company to deliver on their promises?

    I suspect this guy never pays tax, so I would have no problem passing their details onto the revenue.

    Just to clarify, this is NOT a Taxation query, it's Consumer Issues so please keep in this forum, thanks.


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Clearly a tax evasion scheme.
    I'd report them to the Revenue.


  • Options
    #3
    workingdog
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭workingdog


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Clearly a tax evasion scheme.
    I'd report them to the Revenue.

    Well if he done a good job.and you were happy with price id just move on.


  • Options
    #4
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    If your happy with the job leave it.


  • Options
    #5
    SteveAdti
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭SteveAdti


    Im guessing he gave you a decent price .?
    You are probably asking for a Vat receipt.?
    So what if he isnt registered for Vat.
    If he did a good job leave the guy alone .
    Unless you are wanting to claim back Vat through your business for a personal job.?


  • Options
    #6
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Just curiosity; why did you want a receipt?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    he is not obliged to register for vat


  • Options
    #8
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Please do not name the decorater in this forum.

    I recall that you are not obliged as a consumer to automatically receive a receipt. However, if you ask for one, it must be provided. (Open to correction on this one).

    It also may be the case that the decorator does not have to register for VAT, depending on their annual turnover. However, if you feel that this is not the case, then I'd suggest contacting the Revenue.


  • Options
    #9
    chuckyarelaw
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭chuckyarelaw


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Recent decoration job carried out and decorator assured me he would give a receipt at the end (hence my assumption he is charging VAT on the job etc), so I go ahead with the job and pay in cash with promise that receipt will be given to me (in retrospect I should have withheld cash, but the guy seemed trustworthy enough so I thought nothing of it).

    Days pass.. no receipt... enquire with decorator who claims it was a cash job (although I have written confirmation from him that there would be no problem getting receipt).

    The company has a website, although there are no VAT details (again I probably should have ticked).

    So...eh... do I just name and shame the company publicly and move on, or can I go through a complaints process to put some pressure on the company to deliver on their promises?

    I suspect this guy never pays tax, so I would have no problem passing their details onto the revenue.

    Just to clarify, this is NOT a Taxation query, it's Consumer Issues so please keep in this forum, thanks.

    Even if they give a receipt they may not be vat registered. Threshold is around €38k a year I think?


  • Options
    #10
    Phoenix3
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Phoenix3


    If the work was in your house,you wont be able to reclaim VAT anyway.


  • Options
    #11
    Gillo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    SteveAdti wrote: »
    So what if he isnt registered for Vat.
    If he did a good job leave the guy alone .

    So while the vast majority of people do pay tax it's grand for this guy to dodge it. I'm genuinely confused why people support this attitude, don't get me wrong I'd love to pay less tax but why should some people get away with not paying it?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Not every business is VAT registered and they don't have to be either. There is a threshold.

    Saying that, they must provide a receipt if requested and the transaction would have to be declared for income taxation purposes.


  • Options
    #13
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    If a tradesman offers a 30% discount on a job for cash, I have great respect for those who stand by their principles and demand to pay the higher price by cheque. If he did a good job OP, let it go, you saved some money.


  • Options
    #14
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    He might not be earning enough to pay vat, I think it's like 75,000 a year? I could be wrong about the figure.


  • Options
    #15
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    More info here:
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/registration.html#section2

    I remember telling a former colleague about this. He was stunned and said I was wrong, that he was self employed before and knew his stuff. Told him my accountant told me and he insisted my accountant was doing a bad job. Always wanted to print out the notice from Revenue and drop it into him :P


  • Options
    #16
    mphalo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭mphalo1


    no, name and shame yourself ,for other tradesmen to avoid!


  • Options
    #17
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    @mphalo1 - Post constructively or don't post

    dudara


  • Options
    #18
    mphalo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭mphalo1


    apologies


  • Options
    #19
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Wouldn't you need a receipt for the HRI ( Home Renovation Incentive ) Scheme.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/hri/

    I'd certainly wouldn't let this go!


  • Options
    #20
    martian1980
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭martian1980


    If he promised you a receipt, he should be called on it when he doesn't produce it. The quality of the job is irrelevant to the issue. I cannot understand why people think some people should be not be held to the same standards of tax compliance as everyone else, or that you somehow owe him one (on top of paying him the agreed price) for doing the work he agreed to do.


  • Options
    #21
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    Phoenix3 wrote: »
    If the work was in your house,you wont be able to reclaim VAT anyway.

    yes you can - as announced in the last budget.

    It has 2 aims - firstly to stop the black market and secondly to give an incentive for a labour intensive industry.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    mphalo1 wrote: »
    no, name and shame yourself ,for other tradesmen to avoid!

    you mean so those working in the black economy can avoid??


  • Options
    #23
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,618 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    mphalo1 wrote: »
    no, name and shame yourself ,for other tradesmen to avoid!

    wow, what a pointless post. I take it you assume tradesmen should avoid paying tax where possible right?
    martian1980 wrote: »
    If he promised you a receipt, he should be called on it when he doesn't produce it.

    Just a bit of background, I got several quotes. Some were cash prices, some included VAT. The VAT prices came up to roughly the same as the "cash" price these guys offered so I'm not saving money by getting this price.

    There are a few "touch-ups" still required which they said they would come back for, but I notice this promise has somewhat dwindled since I asked them about the receipt they assured they'd give me. So the job isn't finished really, but again I trusted that they'd come back to finish it off once they were free.

    Anyway it's beside the point, I need the receipt as it was promised to me (whether VAT is included or not).

    The question is: is there any ombudsman that I can report tradesmen to?


  • Options
    #24
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    mrcheez wrote: »
    wow, what a pointless post. I take it you assume tradesmen should avoid paying tax where possible right?



    Just a bit of background, I got several quotes. Some were cash prices, some included VAT. The VAT prices came up to roughly the same as the "cash" price these guys offered so I'm not saving money by getting this price.

    There are a few "touch-ups" still required which they said they would come back for, but I notice this promise has somewhat dwindled since I asked them about the receipt they assured they'd give me. So the job isn't finished really, but again I trusted that they'd come back to finish it off once they were free.

    Anyway it's beside the point, I need the receipt as it was promised to me (whether VAT is included or not).

    The question is: is there any ombudsman that I can report tradesmen to?

    For those providing services isn't the turnover threshold above which they're obliged to register something low like €37500 ?


  • Options
    #25
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,618 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Clearly a tax evasion scheme.
    I'd report them to the Revenue.

    This would be a last resort but what details would be needed exactly?

    The website only has the company name (which may or may not be officially registered).. plus I've got a phone number.


  • Options
    #26
    Shimmy Jimmy CocoPop
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Shimmy Jimmy CocoPop


    mrcheez wrote: »
    This would be a last resort but what details would be needed exactly?

    The website only has the company name (which may or may not be officially registered).. plus I've got a phone number.

    You don't need to report them directly to Revenue. Send a politely worded text/email that you need the receipt as promised and if it doesn't materialize tell them you will make enquiries to Revenue about them.

    They should be pretty snappy with it unless the company/business name and website as a whole is bogus and not registered at CRO and therefore income tax, in which case you can forget about your receipt. You can try reporting them to Revenue but there are a lot of bogus guys out there. They may have a new website or name on 3 months time.

    Id always check any tradesman is registered before giving them work in my house


  • Options
    #27
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    If the job was done "for cash" and the OP demands a receipt which includes the vat/tax on it, could tradesman be within his rights to say "fine, no prob, I'll just send you an invoice for the full job price to include taxes, when you pay the outstanding amount, I'll be delighted to forward your receipt". If revenue contact him, he'll just say he is waiting on balance to be paid before issuing a receipt.

    I know OP will argue that the price paid was the agreed price, but somewhere along the line he was more than likely asked "how will you be paying?" To which he probably replied "cash" and then the price was given, this is the way these types of quotes/transactions work.


  • Options
    #28
    GrumpyMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Recent decoration job carried out and decorator assured me he would give a receipt at the end (hence my assumption he is charging VAT on the job etc).. .
    From http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/credit-notes.html#section2

    2. Who must issue a VAT invoice?
    An accountable person who supplies taxable goods or services (other than construction services supplied under a relevant contract) is obliged to issue a VAT invoice where the supply is made to any of the following:
    • Another accountable person,
    • A Department of State,
    • A local authority,
    • A body established by Statute,
    • A person who carries on an exempt activity,
    • A person other than a private individual in another EU Member State,
    • A person in another Member State where a reverse charge to VAT applies, that is, where the supplier is not accountable for VAT in Ireland but the customer is accountable for VAT in the other Member State,
    • If requested in writing by an unregistered person in the State, who is entitled to a repayment of such VAT. (Otherwise, an accountable person is not required to issue a VAT invoice to an unregistered person but may do so if they so wish).
    So – if the decorator is “An accountable person” and if you are in one of the eight categories above then the decorator “is obliged to issue a VAT invoice”. BTW a VAT invoice and a receipt can be completely different documents!

    If you are not in one of the above eight categories then you are at the mercy of the decorator. He is within his rights not to supply a VAT invoice.

    If the decorator is NOT registered for VAT and he issued a VAT invoice he would be breaking the law.

    I don’t know why he can’t just issue you with a piece of paper to say “Received on 31/07/2014 from MrCheez - €xxx.xx Signed Dec O’Rator” as promised...


  • Options
    #29
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #30
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    You can't call him <SNIP>. You have no idea if he is obliged to register for VAT, or if he is tax compliant. If you don't want a cash job, insist on a written quotation, and pay by cheque or bank transfer.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    The Government would be forced to slim down and pay itself less and do with less like the rest of us.

    I know an acquaintence of mine who works from July onwards solely for the government. A lot of higher paid people do. In the uncompetitive sectors of the economy people can demand very high wages in the hope of being happy with half of it when tax is deducted. Others in ordinary jobs with ordinary talents cannot.

    Many family people find themselves priced out of work because the net gain of a 40hr week after tax and childcare and transport costs are factored in does not make it viable to go out and work, unless you can command a very large rate for your work to compensate for the very high marginal rates of tax in this country.


Advertisement