an proposal to end the election madness

def · 29-01-2010 5:39pm #1

i have come up with idea that needs refining please help...

i find these elections a bit over the top ,all the mis spent money ,and ugly mugs on polls its all a bit discracefull really and undemocratic ,as if you wish to become elected or explain or promote your stance on an issue for ballot you need money and people willing AND able to help

the money part is a serious problem ,as what is in the intrest of those who can supply large "political contributions"(legal bribes) is not nesessarily in the intrests of the wider society ,whom are easily swayed with a few buzz words and empty promises

to take ireland into a fairer more "developed" new century we should utilise our advancements in technology and society

we could do away with public (in the street and door to door) campaining at take it to the internet ,

create a government site (resembling face bk or b bo)were any citizen can join to be an observer or if they have a certain amount of signatures can run for a place in government ,

all the information would be easily viewable for each canidate
-vote record on topics
-freinds and family (running for office)
-moral and political stances
-ideas and proposals
-qualifications
-work history
-did they inhale?

and so on ,it would make politics a lot more transparent to those they purport to represent

it would also encourage young people to engange in politics

it would save significant waste of resources

no more posters!

it would allow for dissusion and polls and integrate activism and politics ,

paint a clearer picture of public opinion

any one foresee problems ,or can improve on this? how could the get under way

Permabear · 29-01-2010 6:18pm

This post has been deleted.

rightwingdub · 29-01-2010 6:48pm

How about the government intorduce a list electoral system, at least then we might have some politicians with intelligence instead of TDS who continuously get reelected because they fixed a couple of potholes or got a grant for a local sports club.

def · 29-01-2010 7:12pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

well you could post a comment/question to your canidates profile and then every one could see the answer , access could be provided by county councils via a computer in a shop or maybe a van with a few laptops , id say the majority does have internet access though i dont have exact numbers,through friends and family and internet cafes

def · 29-01-2010 7:24pm

rightwingdub wrote: »

How about the government intorduce a list electoral system, at least then we might have some politicians with intelligence instead of TDS who continuously get reelected because they fixed a couple of potholes or got a grant for a local sports club.

what i was aiming for was a system which was very interactive and would encourage the younger generations to take part,

also it would make comparing one canidate to another easier , for instance :
one canidate had pot holes fixed on one road and got a grant for the local GAA club

you click on "whos the compitition" ?

and another canidate wants a series of drains and ditches built to prevent further flooding on a stretch of road and wants a grant for the local drug rehab clinc and youth club ,

they can lay out their reasons for wanting x,y,or z doneand how they feel it would effect local communities positively ,and of course ask for the peoples opinions

rightwingdub · 29-01-2010 7:27pm

def wrote: »

what i was aiming for was a system which was very interactive and would encourage the younger generations to take part,

also it would make comparing one canidate to another easier , for instance :
one canidate had pot holes fixed on one road and got a grant for the local GAA club

you click on "whos the compitition" ?

and another canidate wants a series of drains and ditches built to prevent further flooding on a stretch of road and wants a grant for the local drug rehab clinc and youth club ,

they can lay out their reasons for wanting x,y,or z doneand how they feel it would effect local communities positively ,and of course ask for the peoples opinions

I prefer candidates who have a detailed knowlege of economics, Northern peace process, the environment and other NATIONAL ISSUES, instead of candidates who solely focus on little local issues.

def · 29-01-2010 7:35pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

maybe knocking on the doors could be nesessary for signitures to apply for a cannidate "profile" but this way they dont knock on every ones doors and can use their time more usefully like voulentering in a drug rehab centre or to help dig ditch ,then they can get new claims to fame and hopefully perspectives on issues ,values that law school wouldnt teach ,and a better connection with the people they represent etc

def · 29-01-2010 7:44pm

rightwingdub wrote: »

I prefer candidates who have a detailed knowlege of economics, Northern peace process, the environment and other NATIONAL ISSUES, instead of candidates who solely focus on little local issues.

thats ok ,you could CHOOSE a cannidate who suits you best
and as all their opinions ,ideas and qualifications would be on their profile for all to see, aswell as those of who they are up against it would make assessing a canidate and choosing one a bit easier , in my opinion anyway

for different levels of government ,different criteria would have to be met
in the beginning there would be collecting a few signitures ,
once you have been in the game for a while or been elected /collected enough signitures you can begin to move up

theghost · 29-01-2010 10:50pm

def wrote: »

well you could post a comment/question to your canidates profile and then every one could see the answer , access could be provided by county councils via a computer in a shop or maybe a van with a few laptops , id say the majority does have internet access though i dont have exact numbers,through friends and family and internet cafes

I'd rather put any questions I had to the candidate face-to-face. Posting questions on his profile gives him time to think of a way to weasel his way out

def · 30-01-2010 12:47am

theghost wrote: »

I'd rather put any questions I had to the candidate face-to-face. Posting questions on his profile gives him time to think of a way to weasel his way out

yeah but if he gets caught out lying ,its on record ,and you can say(on his profile) here on your a liar you lied to me about .. and see what he says and every one can see too, then it gets wacked up on his profile by the administrator ,for all to see liar marks bold stars whatever ,this of course encurs severe punishment ,lying to your boss... i dont know a public flogging? we'll work somthing out ,with the qualitiy of some of the people runnin this place i wouldnt wanna be within hundreds of miles from them ,dangerous people completely living in there own very short term world ,when they go around knocking on doors they might think "hey i could kill the people who wont dont vote for me" wouldnt suprise me they dont think of possible future consequences for many of there actions

slimjimmc · 30-01-2010 3:45pm

def wrote: »

or if they have a certain amount of signatures can run for a place in government

Which is e-voting. How does one guarantee each signature is genuine and valid, that each signature belongs to one person only and that person is entitled to vote? It's full of the same pitfalls as the infamous voting machines even if it's not used to directly elect someone into government.

The rest of your idea has merit but I see it as an additional way for candidates to get their message out to a broader electorate. I can't see it as replacement for the current system of campaigning. A big plus of the website is that everything will be in writing. Screenshots and printouts can bite them in the a$$ if they later deny something:D.

def · 30-01-2010 7:06pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

How does one guarantee each signature is genuine and valid, that each signature belongs to one person only and that person is entitled to vote?

easy ,if it were door to door , write your name and address and a contact number? and then cross check that with the registered voters,and the politition is told "sorry half of these are bogus we put a red line through them,you dont have enough,when you have enough come back and we'll put you on the site / make you eligable for a higher position "

or is that silly?

slimjimmc · 30-01-2010 7:55pm

def wrote: »

easy ,if it were door to door , write your name and address and a contact number? and then cross check that with the registered voters,and the politition is told "sorry half of these are bogus we put a red line through them,you dont have enough,when you have enough come back and we'll put you on the site / make you eligable for a higher position "

or is that silly?

It is. what about confidentiality? it would be an easy task for anyone to match your vote to your identity, something they can't do at present. It would be a backward step and I can't see many people willing to accept that.

def · 30-01-2010 8:38pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

what about confidentiality? it would be an easy task for anyone to match your vote to your identity, something they can't do at present.

in my opinion ,in a free and democratic society you shouldnt be ashamed of who you vote for ,or should you fear whom knows who you support ,plus just because you think someone would be a good canidate doesnt mean you will vote for them ,(signing a list would just be approving,i thought of the whole list of signitures to ensure the canidate does a bit of out and about talking to people stuff,and to keep the website turning into a data base of lazy stoners whos sole purpose for running would be to promote the regulation of the cannabis market,from their house,with nothing else usefull to add)

when you register to vote you could register for the site? or it could be something different altogether, and then give the person who you support/approve of your name and number(site number or somthing) when they come looking /you go looking for them because your friend said "hey get a load of this guy..."

the site is supposed to be about interaction between canidates and citizens and saving lots of money ,and making sure that canidates dont or find it hard to sell their souls while they try to get their names and values out there...

is this just more sillyness? i dream this stuff up to pass the time,

slimjimmc · 30-01-2010 9:06pm

I agree no one should be ashamed or afraid of how they vote, but never the less most people consider their political views private and personal, just like their bank account or health conditions. No one should be able to find out how you vote without your consent and anonymity is fundamental to eliminating any fear of that happening.

If you choose to give your details that's fine that's your choice. But what about the people who want to support someone but still want to keep their views untraceable, registering your identity on a website or signing a form does not do that. By all means let people leave comments and polls, some of the feedback (door-to-door or online) may indeed be useful to the parties but don't rely on it as a system to choose an election candidate or vote a party into government, it won't stand up in the real world.

def · 30-01-2010 10:13pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

just like their bank account No one should be able to find out how you vote without your consent and anonymity is fundamental to eliminating any fear of that happening.

If you choose to give your details that's fine that's your choice. But what about the people who want to support someone but still want to keep their views untraceable, registering your identity on a website or signing a form does not do that.

well i was thinking if people use internet banking to pay bills and so on ,which personally ,i would feel you should keep very safe(safer than your voting record) ,and hope the banks do to..... why not have a similar system with this ?

i dont trust any bank or person for that matter who thinks things like printing your own money ,willie nilly, is a "good" idea , but i am forced to do so,

that is ,trust them with the fruits of my labour knowing the kind of risks they take with my money, tokens,credits whatever whatever you want to call the euro

and since you give the "big boys" your money in taxes ,and cant get that back they better be pretty damn trustworthy ,as far as imconcerned ,whether you just approve of them or want to vote for them,

By all means let people leave comments and polls, some of the feedback (door-to-door or online) may indeed be useful to the parties but don't rely on it as a system to choose an election candidate or vote a party into government,

i was trying to aim for a tool for the voters ,not the parties ,of course once your online its "def says: here ,why dont you put motion sensors on the street lights ? instead a cuttin me poor mas bleedin wages" ,,, all the way ,there would be no actual details on the site ,unless of course you were running

there would be no actual voting taking place , its just making the polititions or wanna bes ,face the public ,and giving the public a voice to shout out ideas and so on ,and i feel it would make the populations opinions ,wants and needs more (whats the word) relevent to modern day politics ,

thats what the media was about ,untill the take over ,now thats what the internets about ,unfortunitly i dont think yer man cowen has a face book , and face books not really suitable as anonymity is fundamental to eliminating any fear of ....whatever

it won't stand up in the real world

ah come on now its cyber space its not the real world

its only "real " for the canidates

still silly?:)

Liam Byrne · 08-02-2010 11:56pm

Well I do think that at least some of the OP's comments should be taken on board, especially the more expensive ones.

How many times have you seen the same 4 posters on every pole on a street ?

Leaving aside the fact that 90% of them are repeat candidates, and that if any of them did any good then you'd know, and should vote accordingly, that is a COMPLETE waste of money by any stretch of the imagination.

Add in the ridiculous campaign about "Bertie's Team", with the egotistical scumbag's photo on every single poster for FF, and you completely negate any possibly argument that these posters add to democracy in any shape or form.

I mean, how many people here (a) know what their local candidates look like and (b) how they've voted on various issues ?

And I know the result here - based on the fact that it's a politics forum - would be skewed.

But yes, we should not be accosted by the ugly mugs of incompetents in the run-up to an election.

And for anyone who claims that it's not our cash that's being wasted, so we shouldn't care, I'll recount one first-hand experience; where I got an "Oireachtas" letter (all official and paid for by us, supposedly for official purposes) that was touting some local candidate whose literature would have landed in the bin had it been labelled with the relevant party's logo.......the letter was a con to make you think it was important and that you needed to open it.

And no points for guessing which party it was from.

gandalf · 09-02-2010 12:04am

The solution is to take the parish pump and the cult of personality out of Irish Politics.

Abolish the Seanad, Reduce the number of TD's, impliement a list system of voting where lists of pre submitted candidates are used. Significantly reduce the number of councils and give councillors real powers and make them full time paid positions.

def · 09-02-2010 11:37am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well I do think that at least some of the OP's comments should be taken on board, especially the more expensive ones.

How many times have you seen the same 4 posters on every pole on a street ?

Leaving aside the fact that 90% of them are repeat candidates, and that if any of them did any good then you'd know, and should vote accordingly, that is a COMPLETE waste of money by any stretch of the imagination.

Add in the ridiculous campaign about "Bertie's Team", with the egotistical scumbag's photo on every single poster for FF, and you completely negate any possibly argument that these posters add to democracy in any shape or form.

I mean, how many people here (a) know what their local candidates look like and (b) how they've voted on various issues ?

And I know the result here - based on the fact that it's a politics forum - would be skewed.

But yes, we should not be accosted by the ugly mugs of incompetents in the run-up to an election.

And for anyone who claims that it's not our cash that's being wasted, so we shouldn't care, I'll recount one first-hand experience; where I got an "Oireachtas" letter (all official and paid for by us, supposedly for official purposes) that was touting some local candidate whose literature would have landed in the bin had it been labelled with the relevant party's logo.......the letter was a con to make you think it was important and that you needed to open it.

And no points for guessing which party it was from.

your mind is the most private place you have , indeed the only place you can truely be alone ,

for these self infaming fools to force themselves and their image on your mind ,is a massive invasion of privacy , you should be given information to make disitions and form opinions in your own time ,

not have a name and picture and a cheap phrase forced into your head over and over ,, an illustion of choice ,,, words come cheap ,so do posters when your not paying ,

choice? in a privately bought election? yea....

playing on hopes and dreams ,, obama, perfect example ,the marketing of the image ,hope ,economic recovery , peace ,change,, .... blues ,artisic images of the sun dawning ,,,, no one even bothered looking at ron paul , how could they ?, does a child buy an apple or the chocolate ? which has the better wrapper? the best image?

image marketers are way to good at their jobs for our good ,

def · 09-02-2010 11:43am

deadtiger wrote: »

The solution is to take the parish pump and the cult of personality out of Irish Politics.

Abolish the Seanad, Reduce the number of TD's, impliement a list system of voting where lists of pre submitted candidates are used. Significantly reduce the number of councils and give councillors real powers and make them full time paid positions.

full time ! full week ? sounds fair enough , for the kinda money their getting

fair days work for a fair days pay, we dont need a county council for every county , it should be council for a cetain number of people ,

a small hard working thrifty government is the only way to go , massive buerocracys only cause trouble and waste

Flamed Diving · 09-02-2010 12:09pm

Bad idea.

Liam Byrne · 09-02-2010 12:54pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Bad idea.

Care to expand on why you reckon this is the case ?

Flamed Diving · 09-02-2010 1:32pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Care to expand on why you reckon this is the case ?

Not really, the various reasons why should be glaringly obvious.

allisbleak · 09-02-2010 4:21pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Only problem with this is that politicians are egomaniacs who will say anything to get your vote. How can 2 minutes at a door convince a voter to elect someone for 5 years or longer. The whole system is wrong, stupid gullible people get corrupt incompetent pollys.

allisbleak · 09-02-2010 4:24pm

deadtiger wrote: »

The solution is to take the parish pump and the cult of personality out of Irish Politics.

Abolish the Seanad, Reduce the number of TD's, impliement a list system of voting where lists of pre submitted candidates are used. Significantly reduce the number of councils and give councillors real powers and make them full time paid positions.

Its simple. All thats needed is that we copy the systems of countries where stuff actually works. No need for think tanks or polls or countless wasteful gov depts with idiots sitting around scratching themselevs and licking their balls all day.

JoeyJJ · 09-02-2010 4:35pm

Ignoring the Evoting part.

This would mean the government would have to design a dynamic and complicated piece of software and where is the budget for this, unlike the ugly posters this won't come from the party budget, who maintains it, who develops it? I'm thinking purely from Budget and Software perspective.

def · 09-02-2010 6:05pm

allisbleak wrote: »

Its simple. All thats needed is that we copy the systems of countries where stuff actually works. No need for think tanks or polls or countless wasteful gov depts with idiots sitting around scratching themselevs and licking their balls all day.

we must not simply copy another , irish solution to an irish problem by irish people ,we are all capable of solving any problem ,bit of thought power and will power is all thats needed

def · 09-02-2010 6:22pm

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Ignoring the Evoting part.

This would mean the government would have to design a dynamic and complicated piece of software and where is the budget for this, unlike the ugly posters this won't come from the party budget, who maintains it, who develops it? I'm thinking purely from Budget and Software perspective.

there is no voting involved , its only about information disemination and approval ratings , disecting ideas and solutions to problems ,public accountability

taking the obstical of money out of the way for people who are shouted under in the elections by all the posters and other advertising , and are not heard of though they may be more approved of

money? love is all ye need ,i have a friend or two more than capable , who would write the software for nothing much , would the moderating not be for the gardai? dishing out bold stars to lying representitives and so on, the department of education perhaps ? or a corruption prevention watchdog group , id say many people would be ready and willing to set up and run a simple program like this ,

offer it to colledge students as a project , collect up money through donations ,best one gets the prize , advertising would probably pay for the running of the site , if you thought it would be a good idea , i would resist or if the polititions had to give a donation(personaly) to be put up ,

lots of options...

def · 09-02-2010 6:44pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Not really, the various reasons why should be glaringly obvious.

what is your understanding of what it (the programe) is supposed to provide?

allisbleak · 09-02-2010 7:24pm

def wrote: »

we must not simply copy another , irish solution to an irish problem by irish people ,we are all capable of solving any problem ,bit of thought power and will power is all thats needed

I'm afraid thats why our country is in such a mess.

I love this line

irish solution to an irish problem by irish people

Luas, port tunnel, HSE, useless government, sh1t roads that kill 100 or more each year, infrastructure that goes nowhere, endemic corruption, a public service which employs one fifth of our working population etc.

need I go on?

def · 09-02-2010 9:53pm

allisbleak wrote: »

I'm afraid thats why our country is in such a mess.

I love this line

irish solution to an irish problem by irish people

Luas, port tunnel, HSE, useless government, sh1t roads that kill 100 or more each year, infrastructure that goes nowhere, endemic corruption, a public service which employs one fifth of our working population etc.

need I go on?

i think most if not all these are examples of symptoms of corruption or freedom from accountability , if we tackle corruption with the classic you aint royal to me attitude , and then after that ,some accountability from then on ,should allow the peices to fall where they fit , but were still left with the big expensive needle ,the big expensive hole , the bleedin luas and the empty gardai stations and farms and all the rest.....

an proposal to end the election madness

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