Boards.ie

maninasia · 03-05-2013, 04:47

I realise there are a lot of unknowns, but at the same time we can work with the knowns to posit theories that make some sense. As pretty much everybody says these days, it would be crazy to think we are the only intelligent civilisation out there. I also think it would be crazy to think that there are only a few, when, given the vast size of the galaxy and the universe, there should be huge numbers of civlisations! We are talking possibly up to the millions.

Some of them are going to get space faring..and when they do that..space is their oyster..just like the fish in the ocean. It's evolution on a large scale, competition for resources and pressure of survival. The species that figure it out get to spread, the ones that don't die. They'll keep going. Now that goes for microbes and non intelligent life forms too. It could also work in terms of microbes seeding the galaxy, and civilisations springing up as these microbes evolve over time to more complex animals with neural networks.

I'm fine with different views on what's going on, as long as people put in the effort to get an UP TO DATE and CURRENT understanding of the universe before saying things are impossible, when they are not. My pet hate is the use of 'distance' and 'speed of light' to say that Earth is isolated. It is not. It is moving very rapidly through the galactic plane AND it is perfectly possible to travel through the entire galaxy over periods of millions of years.

To get back to the technological aspects of why we haven't detected civlisations, it's fairly simple if you switch it around. Right now we haven't succeeded in visually observing a planets atmosphere or satellites directly. We even have trouble picking out orbits of smaller planets. Now imagine if we sat our best telescopes on these newly discovered planets and pointed them back at Earth, they wouldn't be able to detect us either, even though we are putting on a lightshow every night for any denizens of our solar system!

Rob Humanoid · 03-05-2013, 11:40

However, it's equally frustrating when someone looks at a blob in the sky (or in a photo) and automatically assumes that it's 'alien in origin' without applying even the simplest bit of critical thinking or analysis before leaping to such a wild conclusion.

It's also pretty frustrating when people make claims about being visited in the past and propose certain theories that say it 'may' be possible.

But for me this is all very simple. You say we've been visited in the past, and I say I'd need proof. You propose a theory that says it's (may be) possible. Just because something is possible doesn't make it probable. I may be struck by a meteorite, doesn't mean I will be (not trying to sound flippant here).

But back to the question, is there any REAL proof that we have been visited in the past or present? I say no, due to lack of tangible evidence.

Cheers,

Rob.

maninasia · 04-05-2013, 04:53

Rob, I'd like to qualify a few things, but enjoying this reasonable debate on boards for once

.

I'm not saying dogmatically, 100%, 'we have been visited in the past'. What I would say is that 'we have very probably been visited in the past and even now we very probably have others aware of our existence'. Not only me but many scientists including Fermi has posited the same thing over the years (since Fermi opined on this subject we have discovered large numbers of planets, which just makes this probability stronger, not weaker).

Again, as we currently recognise things, we have no proof of being visited by extraterrestrial civilisations. I've given plenty of reasons why that may be the case above (not including the obvious reason, but unlikely in my book, that we have simply never been visited).

As I have mentioned already, our very existence could have depended on microbes landing here from somewhere else, so WE could be the proof, of extraterrestrial life, but we simply haven't figured that out yet.

The evidence as it stands, possibly in the form of rare and legitimate UFO sightings of craft, may not be acknowledged because it is not easily analysable or predictable in nature. This is not regarded as scientific evidence because of these reasons, and you know what, I agree. It's not enough evidence to base a good scientific theory on. Even though I tend to believing some of these reports are legitimate sightings of extraterrestrial craft, it does not give us enough data or material to work with in a scientific sense.

dyer · 04-05-2013, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Humanoid

However, it's equally frustrating when someone looks at a blob in the sky (or in a photo) and automatically assumes that it's 'alien in origin' without applying even the simplest bit of critical thinking or analysis before leaping to such a wild conclusion.

In my case Rob, and perhaps many others, it wasn't just a blob in the sky.. it was something that was over my head so close i could have thrown something at it. Everything about how it looked, sounded and maneuvered told me it was something that was not of this earth. It was large.. it was long, it was silent, it had no wings, it had no windows, looked like it was made out of some kind of metallic chrome.. and last but not least, the whole thing was surrounded by what i can only describe as clouds of electromagnetic waves glowing in different colours. These are not the only experiences i've had. Is that tangible evidence? Nope. But considering what we have to go on, i reckon it at least amounts to a little bit.

As far as the military explanations go, again, nope.. there's no way they could do what these things can do. I've seen them fire off into space like laser beams. The speeds they travel, the inertia involved in the turns they take.. it's not possible, even by the most advanced military standards, i don't even think the most secret aircraft in darpa are capable of doing anything like this unless they managed to reverse engineer a downed ufo or something, even then, i don't think there's a single human being alive today capable of flying such a machine.

So you see, it's very healthy to theorise.. because, at least in my view, these things are happening.. it's only a matter of time before we can do it too if we put our minds to it.. and you can bet, behind closed doors, "we" are trying to.

**EnterNow** · 05-05-2013, 14:54

Spotted this in CVPL. I don't know anything about Paul Hellyer, but from someone with a cv such as his, this is very interesting stuff

Rob Humanoid · 05-05-2013, 16:27

Hey Dyer,

It's always hard to respond to someone who tells a story like this and not to come across as just being another Skeptical 'naysayer'.

So in fairness, if I had the experience that you had (in the exact same way you said it happened) I'd probably be convinced that we were being visited too - That is, after I tried to have explain it rationally first. So that there is tangible proof for you, but not really for anyone else unfortunately, as you were the only witness.

The unfortunate problem is that no one can verify your story. On boards you come across as genuine person. However, my only assumption, because there's not proof from my perspective, can be that you were mistaken somehow, and misinterpreted the information that you saw. So, I believe that you believe it, if that makes sense? I think that you are one of the genuine UFO guys.

Having such an experience would inspire you (and others) to seek out theories that may explain your encounter. I'd be doing the same thing if I was in you shoes…But I'm not, so I have to interpret your story form a skeptics point of view. And work off a 'null hypothesis' (again I'm not saying you are lying here).

While I think you are genuine in your beliefs. I feel that the vast majority of UFO proponents are either cranks, mistaken or just plain old cash hounds. The first question I always ask myself in these matters is, what will someone gain from making their story public? All too often they have a website, and are writing yet another book or willing to give a lecture (for a bloated fee of course). Unfortunately, people's appetite for Psychics, UFOs, Auras, etc. Is nearly insatiable and this can leave them in a vulnerable position by certain 'snake oil salesman' types. Especially when people want and need to believe in something… I mean, what I wouldn't give to communicate with my Mum one last time. But I know that it's not possible… I'm with Houdini on this one.

A while ago I saw an interview with an Airforce pilot a few years ago, he encountered a UFO. and again, I believe he saw something. He believed it was E.T. in origin. Personally I think he was probably mistaken. Interestingly enough though, he had nearly the same views as myself regarding the majority of the UFO community. He said that 99% were all mistaken, fakers and just in it for the cash. He said that the 1% were actually genuine cases and were probably ET Crafts. He said that he was thoroughly frustrated that most of the genuine cases were getting washed away by the other hog wash that is connately thrown at us (ie, the Bob Lazars of this world).

When I look into some of these famous cases out of interest there's usually some genuine people who were just probably mistaken to begin with. I believe that Jesse Marcel was genuine for example, but probably didn't quite know what he was actually looking at. Interestingly enough tho', he never mentioned aliens per se. That is, he never saw any, but believed the crash was probably ET in origin.

But much later out of the woodwork suddenly came lots of people making all sorts of bizarre claims about little green men, and second crash site, etc. I believe they were telling outright lies for publicity, writing a book, or just to get some cash from a TV appearance.

Same goes for the Wrendalsham forest incident. I believe that Lt. Col. Holt (and the few guys with him that second night if I remember correctly) really believed that the saw a sweeping light, and thought it was alien in origin. However, again more stories 'suddenly appear' that one of the chaps on a different night actually went up an touched the 'triangular craft'. I believe this is untrue, and was a claim made many years after the fact and not the right reasons.

So, even if someone has the best intentions of reporting something there's way too much other dubious material to sift through. As well as dubious science experts to claim all sorts of things including having a plethora of tangible evidence, but yet this evidence is are never peer reviewed. When asked 'why', the predictable response is usually something like, 'the sample is too precious to leave the lab'. Hmmm…

Another interesting case, where I believe the pilots definitely saw something. I can't remember the exact details as I saw it a few years back. But you can clearly here 2 pilots (flying different planes) communicating about a very fast moving cylindrical object. I think it was clocked by the tower as well. One is clearly worried, as it's very close to his position, and moving at incredible speed in a straight line. Not long after the second pilot verifies seeing the same object. It still seems to be traveling in a straight line as well. Personally, I believe they saw some sort of new military aircraft or drone. I say this because it was traveling in a straight line. Plus, that would be my first conclusion, as I see it being more likely.

Anyway, like I said, I think you did see something, but because I wasn't there I can't make an informed decision an what you actually saw. I've not always been a skeptic I did believe in UFOs some years back, but I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of evidence that would never bee presented.

Cheers,

Rob.

Rhys Essien · 05-05-2013, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Humanoid

Another interesting case, where I believe the pilots definitely saw something. I can't remember the exact details as I saw it a few years back. But you can clearly here 2 pilots (flying different planes) communicating about a very fast moving cylindrical object. I think it was clocked by the tower as well. One is clearly worried, as it's very close to his position, and moving at incredible speed in a straight line. Not long after the second pilot verifies seeing the same object. It still seems to be traveling in a straight line as well. Personally, I believe they saw some sort of new military aircraft or drone. I say this because it was traveling in a straight line. Plus, that would be my first conclusion, as I see it being more likely.

Id say this is the Japan Airlines cargo plane flying over Alaska that you are refering to.Seems one of the few credible UFO stories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_A..._1628_incident

Also another pilot here saw one over the English Channel.He is interviewed here by Richard and Judy.

maninasia · 06-05-2013, 04:05

I'm a bit of a student of UFO sightings, those two cases have some relation to mirages, and the Japanese captain was supposedly known for jumping ahead to conclusions. But I am not 100% saying he didn't see a genuine UFO either (obviously a mirage is not a flying object).

IMO, there are many better cases which can be used for evidence of something extraordinary in our skies. These cases seemed to cluster in specific periods of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970 and especially notable were the late 40s early 50s, late 60s and early 70s. There was a massive UFO wave in 1973. Even now I have noticed a pattern of reports that are made for the first time about old close up metallic craft sightings, usually they cluster in those years.

http://www.cohenufo.org/UFOWaves-Rol...ichardHall.htm

So here is my favourite case of all time, the Coyne Incident, from 1973.

Dyer will like this one.

Major Coyne's description of the object

Quote:

"We looked up and saw it stopped right over us," Coyne said. "It had a big, gray metallic-looking hull about 60 feet long." "It was shaped like an airfoil or a streamlined fat cigar. There was a red light on the front. The leading edge glowed red a short distance back from the nose. There was a center dome. A green light at the rear reflected on the hull."

Rob Humanoid · 07-05-2013, 11:49

@Rhys E,

Thanks mate, but that's not the one (although it's very interesting)...

The one I saw involved a cylindrical object moving at a very high velocity. And the conversation was between 2 different pilots (the onther was 7 miles behind (if I remember correctly) as well as the aircraft tower. But imo, it was probably some form of experimental (maybe unmanned) aircraft. But both pilots were spooked because of the objects hi velocity, as it's close proximity. In the description they cave it was a long black cylinder.

Cheers,

Rob.

dyer · 18-05-2013, 06:34

I understand your frustrations rob, i'm in the same boat to be honest.. even though i've seen things i never thought could possibly exist. You can read as many witness testimonies and books and whatever else, but it will never amount to what it feels like to actually see it with your own eyes, unfortunately that's all we have to go on right now. To be honest, sometimes i wonder if im blessed or cursed because of what ive seen. Blessed i suppose, but it's almost painful because most people don't believe me or think i'm making it up.. and at the very least, want to explain to you that what you saw wasn't what you saw at all, just something arbitrary that you weren't smart enough to figure out or something military that you weren't privileged to know about. So you can understand then, why people who have had these experiences might gravitate towards each other and start to ignore the bias that exists in the world around this topic, or why we might start to imagine the things theyre doing which our common logic and knowledge of everything we know collectively as a species hasnt yet achieved. I've studied science and ive been fascinated with space for as long as i can remember. I don't make hasty decisions without good reason. I have mates with all sorts of backgrounds and degrees and phds in maths, chemistry, marine science, physics, astronomy whatever, i doubt you'd be surprised to hear they don't believe me either.. and that's even more frustrating than talking to people i don't know about it online.

I really wish i could plug my memories into a box and share them with everyone.. but it doesnt quite work like that, but if i could i would, and i would have nothing to hide, i'm pretty sure there are many others out there like me who wouldn't have a problem with it either. I don't feel ashamed for what i've seen and experience, but the world being the way it is today, sure does make you feel like that. You think it's hard to find any truth in this whole thing when you've never seen it yourself? it's a thousand times worse when you have.. believe me.. because then you want to know the truth, you don't just think about it as some kind of second hand story you heard.

I, like many others, have seen these ufo's cross the entire night sky like they were playing with it.. not only that, splitting up into pieces, flying around in circles and coming back together again.. glowing brighter than any star in the sky.. and then zipping around quite literally as fast as you can imagine.. doing right turns at these speeds etc.. ive done the math before, theyve been captured travelling way faster than any known aircraft and doing right angled turns every few seconds without ever slowing down.

Have you ever heard the term "the tyranny of the rocket equation?" if you can imagine an object travelling at that speed with mass.. the amount of energy to bring it to a stop.. never mind making it move in a different direction, especially a right angle (without so much as blinking an eye), is pretty much exponential. That's without making it stop.. just turning on it's heels and continuing as if it didn't care about our silly laws of physics.. and the G's, well it'd be more like, Geez. As you well know, at high velocities, we're only good for one thing, travelling in a straight line at best, and hopefully, without blowing ourselves up.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/st...0/tryanny.html

To put it into perspective, if we ever happened to invent any kind of realistically usable ion propulsion drive, it would still take us probably 300 hundred years or more to go out and bring voyager back.. and that's the best we have to offer right now.

I gave up debating this topic online a while back, cause it's utterly futile.. but i will speak about it, because, i do really think it's that important and we shouldn't ignore it.

okioffice84 · 20-05-2013, 14:41

Do you have a link to a description of what you saw dyer. Don't want you to re-hash it here if you've already done so.

Rob Humanoid · 20-05-2013, 17:21

Hey Dyer,

I totally get that you need to talk about your experiences. If I was in the same boat I'd be doing it too, and I also understand your frustration. Like yourself, I never really get into arguments on the net re. belief vs non belief. Because each party already has their own beliefs. So, it's always going to be an uphill struggle either way…

To be honest I only enter a discussion on a purely skeptical forum tbh (a la the Skeptics Corner). I generally don't like discussing the matter with the other side, on a paranormal forum because it's generally futile for both parties.

As I said in my previous post to you and I meant it. If I saw what you saw in the way you said it happened I'd be a believer too. Because, that to me would proof right there. You experience is like a badly smudged photo, or a 'twinkle' in the night sky - as too many people pounce on these days. Simply because they don't know what they are really looking a,t or don't conceive the notion that it could have been faked.

The problem arises again, when you say (or others) that you've seen stuff zipping across the sky doing impossible right angles, etc. Again, there's no proof nothing tangible for me, or any skeptic tbh. There's all sorts of phenomenon in the sky at night that seem to be very strange. Do people really know what they are looking at? It's very hard to gauge speed, distance and speed against a skyline.

Again, I've no problem with people believing what they want, but in a skeptics forum it's always going to be tough for you. Same for me, if I went onto the Mufon website and started posting.

My only problem real problem with some of the UFO community, is that there are some guys and gals out there, that use trickery and lies to make a lot of money. Basically, they prey upon peoples need to believe in something which I think is wrong.

Cheers,

Rob.

03-05-2013, 04:47	#166
maninasia Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,476 Adverts \| Friends	I realise there are a lot of unknowns, but at the same time we can work with the knowns to posit theories that make some sense. As pretty much everybody says these days, it would be crazy to think we are the only intelligent civilisation out there. I also think it would be crazy to think that there are only a few, when, given the vast size of the galaxy and the universe, there should be huge numbers of civlisations! We are talking possibly up to the millions. Some of them are going to get space faring..and when they do that..space is their oyster..just like the fish in the ocean. It's evolution on a large scale, competition for resources and pressure of survival. The species that figure it out get to spread, the ones that don't die. They'll keep going. Now that goes for microbes and non intelligent life forms too. It could also work in terms of microbes seeding the galaxy, and civilisations springing up as these microbes evolve over time to more complex animals with neural networks. I'm fine with different views on what's going on, as long as people put in the effort to get an UP TO DATE and CURRENT understanding of the universe before saying things are impossible, when they are not. My pet hate is the use of 'distance' and 'speed of light' to say that Earth is isolated. It is not. It is moving very rapidly through the galactic plane AND it is perfectly possible to travel through the entire galaxy over periods of millions of years. To get back to the technological aspects of why we haven't detected civlisations, it's fairly simple if you switch it around. Right now we haven't succeeded in visually observing a planets atmosphere or satellites directly. We even have trouble picking out orbits of smaller planets. Now imagine if we sat our best telescopes on these newly discovered planets and pointed them back at Earth, they wouldn't be able to detect us either, even though we are putting on a lightshow every night for any denizens of our solar system! Last edited by maninasia; 03-05-2013 at 04:51.

18-05-2013, 06:34	#175
dyer Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 597 Adverts \| Friends	I understand your frustrations rob, i'm in the same boat to be honest.. even though i've seen things i never thought could possibly exist. You can read as many witness testimonies and books and whatever else, but it will never amount to what it feels like to actually see it with your own eyes, unfortunately that's all we have to go on right now. To be honest, sometimes i wonder if im blessed or cursed because of what ive seen. Blessed i suppose, but it's almost painful because most people don't believe me or think i'm making it up.. and at the very least, want to explain to you that what you saw wasn't what you saw at all, just something arbitrary that you weren't smart enough to figure out or something military that you weren't privileged to know about. So you can understand then, why people who have had these experiences might gravitate towards each other and start to ignore the bias that exists in the world around this topic, or why we might start to imagine the things theyre doing which our common logic and knowledge of everything we know collectively as a species hasnt yet achieved. I've studied science and ive been fascinated with space for as long as i can remember. I don't make hasty decisions without good reason. I have mates with all sorts of backgrounds and degrees and phds in maths, chemistry, marine science, physics, astronomy whatever, i doubt you'd be surprised to hear they don't believe me either.. and that's even more frustrating than talking to people i don't know about it online. I really wish i could plug my memories into a box and share them with everyone.. but it doesnt quite work like that, but if i could i would, and i would have nothing to hide, i'm pretty sure there are many others out there like me who wouldn't have a problem with it either. I don't feel ashamed for what i've seen and experience, but the world being the way it is today, sure does make you feel like that. You think it's hard to find any truth in this whole thing when you've never seen it yourself? it's a thousand times worse when you have.. believe me.. because then you want to know the truth, you don't just think about it as some kind of second hand story you heard. I, like many others, have seen these ufo's cross the entire night sky like they were playing with it.. not only that, splitting up into pieces, flying around in circles and coming back together again.. glowing brighter than any star in the sky.. and then zipping around quite literally as fast as you can imagine.. doing right turns at these speeds etc.. ive done the math before, theyve been captured travelling way faster than any known aircraft and doing right angled turns every few seconds without ever slowing down. Have you ever heard the term "the tyranny of the rocket equation?" if you can imagine an object travelling at that speed with mass.. the amount of energy to bring it to a stop.. never mind making it move in a different direction, especially a right angle (without so much as blinking an eye), is pretty much exponential. That's without making it stop.. just turning on it's heels and continuing as if it didn't care about our silly laws of physics.. and the G's, well it'd be more like, Geez. As you well know, at high velocities, we're only good for one thing, travelling in a straight line at best, and hopefully, without blowing ourselves up. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/st...0/tryanny.html To put it into perspective, if we ever happened to invent any kind of realistically usable ion propulsion drive, it would still take us probably 300 hundred years or more to go out and bring voyager back.. and that's the best we have to offer right now. I gave up debating this topic online a while back, cause it's utterly futile.. but i will speak about it, because, i do really think it's that important and we shouldn't ignore it. Last edited by dyer; 18-05-2013 at 07:05.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-05-2013, 11:40	#167
Rob Humanoid Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dublin Posts: 78 Adverts \| Friends	However, it's equally frustrating when someone looks at a blob in the sky (or in a photo) and automatically assumes that it's 'alien in origin' without applying even the simplest bit of critical thinking or analysis before leaping to such a wild conclusion. It's also pretty frustrating when people make claims about being visited in the past and propose certain theories that say it 'may' be possible. But for me this is all very simple. You say we've been visited in the past, and I say I'd need proof. You propose a theory that says it's (may be) possible. Just because something is possible doesn't make it probable. I may be struck by a meteorite, doesn't mean I will be (not trying to sound flippant here). But back to the question, is there any REAL proof that we have been visited in the past or present? I say no, due to lack of tangible evidence. Cheers, Rob.

04-05-2013, 04:53	#168
maninasia Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,476 Adverts \| Friends	Rob, I'd like to qualify a few things, but enjoying this reasonable debate on boards for once . I'm not saying dogmatically, 100%, 'we have been visited in the past'. What I would say is that 'we have very probably been visited in the past and even now we very probably have others aware of our existence'. Not only me but many scientists including Fermi has posited the same thing over the years (since Fermi opined on this subject we have discovered large numbers of planets, which just makes this probability stronger, not weaker). Again, as we currently recognise things, we have no proof of being visited by extraterrestrial civilisations. I've given plenty of reasons why that may be the case above (not including the obvious reason, but unlikely in my book, that we have simply never been visited). As I have mentioned already, our very existence could have depended on microbes landing here from somewhere else, so WE could be the proof, of extraterrestrial life, but we simply haven't figured that out yet. The evidence as it stands, possibly in the form of rare and legitimate UFO sightings of craft, may not be acknowledged because it is not easily analysable or predictable in nature. This is not regarded as scientific evidence because of these reasons, and you know what, I agree. It's not enough evidence to base a good scientific theory on. Even though I tend to believing some of these reports are legitimate sightings of extraterrestrial craft, it does not give us enough data or material to work with in a scientific sense.

05-05-2013, 14:54	#170
EnterNow Category Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 19,477 Adverts \| Friends CMod: Mysteries of the Unexplained, Console Modding, Games, Games Mods	Spotted this in CVPL. I don't know anything about Paul Hellyer, but from someone with a cv such as his, this is very interesting stuff

05-05-2013, 16:27	#171
Rob Humanoid Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dublin Posts: 78 Adverts \| Friends	Hey Dyer, It's always hard to respond to someone who tells a story like this and not to come across as just being another Skeptical 'naysayer'. So in fairness, if I had the experience that you had (in the exact same way you said it happened) I'd probably be convinced that we were being visited too - That is, after I tried to have explain it rationally first. So that there is tangible proof for you, but not really for anyone else unfortunately, as you were the only witness. The unfortunate problem is that no one can verify your story. On boards you come across as genuine person. However, my only assumption, because there's not proof from my perspective, can be that you were mistaken somehow, and misinterpreted the information that you saw. So, I believe that you believe it, if that makes sense? I think that you are one of the genuine UFO guys. Having such an experience would inspire you (and others) to seek out theories that may explain your encounter. I'd be doing the same thing if I was in you shoes…But I'm not, so I have to interpret your story form a skeptics point of view. And work off a 'null hypothesis' (again I'm not saying you are lying here). While I think you are genuine in your beliefs. I feel that the vast majority of UFO proponents are either cranks, mistaken or just plain old cash hounds. The first question I always ask myself in these matters is, what will someone gain from making their story public? All too often they have a website, and are writing yet another book or willing to give a lecture (for a bloated fee of course). Unfortunately, people's appetite for Psychics, UFOs, Auras, etc. Is nearly insatiable and this can leave them in a vulnerable position by certain 'snake oil salesman' types. Especially when people want and need to believe in something… I mean, what I wouldn't give to communicate with my Mum one last time. But I know that it's not possible… I'm with Houdini on this one. A while ago I saw an interview with an Airforce pilot a few years ago, he encountered a UFO. and again, I believe he saw something. He believed it was E.T. in origin. Personally I think he was probably mistaken. Interestingly enough though, he had nearly the same views as myself regarding the majority of the UFO community. He said that 99% were all mistaken, fakers and just in it for the cash. He said that the 1% were actually genuine cases and were probably ET Crafts. He said that he was thoroughly frustrated that most of the genuine cases were getting washed away by the other hog wash that is connately thrown at us (ie, the Bob Lazars of this world). When I look into some of these famous cases out of interest there's usually some genuine people who were just probably mistaken to begin with. I believe that Jesse Marcel was genuine for example, but probably didn't quite know what he was actually looking at. Interestingly enough tho', he never mentioned aliens per se. That is, he never saw any, but believed the crash was probably ET in origin. But much later out of the woodwork suddenly came lots of people making all sorts of bizarre claims about little green men, and second crash site, etc. I believe they were telling outright lies for publicity, writing a book, or just to get some cash from a TV appearance. Same goes for the Wrendalsham forest incident. I believe that Lt. Col. Holt (and the few guys with him that second night if I remember correctly) really believed that the saw a sweeping light, and thought it was alien in origin. However, again more stories 'suddenly appear' that one of the chaps on a different night actually went up an touched the 'triangular craft'. I believe this is untrue, and was a claim made many years after the fact and not the right reasons. So, even if someone has the best intentions of reporting something there's way too much other dubious material to sift through. As well as dubious science experts to claim all sorts of things including having a plethora of tangible evidence, but yet this evidence is are never peer reviewed. When asked 'why', the predictable response is usually something like, 'the sample is too precious to leave the lab'. Hmmm… Another interesting case, where I believe the pilots definitely saw something. I can't remember the exact details as I saw it a few years back. But you can clearly here 2 pilots (flying different planes) communicating about a very fast moving cylindrical object. I think it was clocked by the tower as well. One is clearly worried, as it's very close to his position, and moving at incredible speed in a straight line. Not long after the second pilot verifies seeing the same object. It still seems to be traveling in a straight line as well. Personally, I believe they saw some sort of new military aircraft or drone. I say this because it was traveling in a straight line. Plus, that would be my first conclusion, as I see it being more likely. Anyway, like I said, I think you did see something, but because I wasn't there I can't make an informed decision an what you actually saw. I've not always been a skeptic I did believe in UFOs some years back, but I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of evidence that would never bee presented. Cheers, Rob.

07-05-2013, 11:49	#174
Rob Humanoid Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dublin Posts: 78 Adverts \| Friends	@Rhys E, Thanks mate, but that's not the one (although it's very interesting)... The one I saw involved a cylindrical object moving at a very high velocity. And the conversation was between 2 different pilots (the onther was 7 miles behind (if I remember correctly) as well as the aircraft tower. But imo, it was probably some form of experimental (maybe unmanned) aircraft. But both pilots were spooked because of the objects hi velocity, as it's close proximity. In the description they cave it was a long black cylinder. Cheers, Rob.

20-05-2013, 14:41	#176
okioffice84 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 209 Adverts \| Friends	Do you have a link to a description of what you saw dyer. Don't want you to re-hash it here if you've already done so.

20-05-2013, 17:21	#177
Rob Humanoid Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dublin Posts: 78 Adverts \| Friends	Hey Dyer, I totally get that you need to talk about your experiences. If I was in the same boat I'd be doing it too, and I also understand your frustration. Like yourself, I never really get into arguments on the net re. belief vs non belief. Because each party already has their own beliefs. So, it's always going to be an uphill struggle either way… To be honest I only enter a discussion on a purely skeptical forum tbh (a la the Skeptics Corner). I generally don't like discussing the matter with the other side, on a paranormal forum because it's generally futile for both parties. As I said in my previous post to you and I meant it. If I saw what you saw in the way you said it happened I'd be a believer too. Because, that to me would proof right there. You experience is like a badly smudged photo, or a 'twinkle' in the night sky - as too many people pounce on these days. Simply because they don't know what they are really looking a,t or don't conceive the notion that it could have been faked. The problem arises again, when you say (or others) that you've seen stuff zipping across the sky doing impossible right angles, etc. Again, there's no proof nothing tangible for me, or any skeptic tbh. There's all sorts of phenomenon in the sky at night that seem to be very strange. Do people really know what they are looking at? It's very hard to gauge speed, distance and speed against a skyline. Again, I've no problem with people believing what they want, but in a skeptics forum it's always going to be tough for you. Same for me, if I went onto the Mufon website and started posting. My only problem real problem with some of the UFO community, is that there are some guys and gals out there, that use trickery and lies to make a lot of money. Basically, they prey upon peoples need to believe in something which I think is wrong. Cheers, Rob.