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More teacher bashing, when will it ever end?

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    #92
    dambarude
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    We've already had payment by results in Ireland (the end of the C19th).

    If you think that there is a lot of rote learning and teaching to the test now, you can multiply that tenfold if teachers' salaries were to depend on exam results. If students are being assessed by an exam, and a teacher's pay is riding on that exam, it's only natural that any means possible will be used to boost results.

    Linking increments or allowances to student results would be so unworkable (and unethical) that it just makes me cringe any time I hear it suggested.


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    #93
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    dambarude wrote: »
    We've already had payment by results in Ireland (the end of the C19th).

    If you think that there is a lot of rote learning and teaching to the test now, you can multiply that tenfold if teachers' salaries were to depend on exam results. If students are being assessed by an exam, and a teacher's pay is riding on that exam, it's only natural that any means possible will be used to boost results.

    Linking increments or allowances to student results would be so unworkable (and unethical) that it just makes me cringe any time I hear it suggested.
    I know of a school where a now thankfully ex-teacher "taught to the test"for the standardised tests. Parents took the results at face value,principal knew something was up and had it out with the teacher.Now, imagine you are going to be paid for those results,how much temptation would be there to do the same?


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    #94
    E.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭E.T.


    How would such a scheme work at primary level? Are people talking about bringing in standardised tests from infants up? I have pupils starting in Junior Infants with a 15 month age range from youngest to oldest most years. My aim is to get each of these children working to the best of their own ability, but there's always going to be a huge range of abilities, which doesn't count for much on a standardised test

    What about pupils with Special Needs? What about pupils with dyslexia/dyscalculia etc (they no longer count for resource hours, so are not guaranteed any extra help, so wouldn't be counted under SEN).


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    #95
    dambarude
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    I know of a school where a now thankfully ex-teacher "taught to the test"for the standardised tests. Parents took the results at face value,principal knew something was up and had it out with the teacher.Now, imagine you are going to be paid for those results,how much temptation would be there to do the same?

    Which is why the DES shouldn't be putting as much emphasis on standardised test results in the Num & Lit drive as it is. It's dangerous. People who don't understand how they work will, as you said, take results at face value. It's already happening with State exams to a certain extent.


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    #96
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    There's a very interesting chapter in Freakonomics about this which essentially says that when teachers are given financial incentive based goals to achieve they cheat. Often not intentionally but generally they skew the results either to make them or the student look better.

    Its certainly not a great alternative that people are spouting.


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    #97
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,245 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    More teacher bashing, when will it ever end?
    What makes teachers so precious that they can't be bashed? Pretty much everyone else gets a bashing at some time or another.


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    #98
    dambarude
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    Victor wrote: »
    What makes teachers so precious that they can't be bashed? Pretty much everyone else gets a bashing at some time or another.

    If it's at some time or another, fair enough. But it's almost constant with teachers. Any time discussion of teachers comes up on boards, for example, you can nearly guarantee that discussion of holidays and pay will follow soon after.

    And if teachers are precious they won't survive in the job very long.


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    #99
    E.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭E.T.


    Victor wrote: »
    What makes teachers so precious that they can't be bashed? Pretty much everyone else gets a bashing at some time or another.

    I don't think any of us said that teachers can't be bashed. We're all just fed up with not being able to have a rational debate on anything, or look for advice on professional queries in the T&L forum without trolls ranting on about how crap teachers are ad nauseum.

    There's a constant stream of teacher threads in AH and Politics, is it too much to ask for a place where we can ask questions of others in our profession?

    Does it happen on other sections of the site where people post professional queries? Do engineers/hairdressers/plumbers etc have to put up with constant trolling? Just wondering?

    And thanks dambarude - precious doesn't get you very far when the vomiting and diarrhoea bug is doing the rounds of your class or any of the other unmentioned joys of teaching!


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    #100
    dg647
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭dg647


    average_runner wrote: »
    Same way you do in private sector, have appraisal forms where targets are met, continous assessment of the teacher. On spot class checks.
    All these things will help.

    What targets would you set for a teacher? How would you assess a teacher teaching the foundation level class and the teacher who has the 1st Honours class?

    What criteria would you use for the continuous assessment of teachers? That they turn up?
    That they give/check homework?
    That they have loads of paperwork and plans?
    That they have enough IEP's?
    The list could go on...

    I would have no problem with on the spot checks. They would give an opportunity for the majority of teachers who are doing a good job to have that recognised. But my fear with these inspections is that they will come in and just look for paperwork. No interaction with the teacher, with the inspector having no understanding of the realities of the classroom in respect to areas such as the pupils' home situation, SEN, mixed ability classes etc.


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    #101
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    E.T. wrote: »
    How would such a scheme work at primary level? Are people talking about bringing in standardised tests from infants up? I have pupils starting in Junior Infants with a 15 month age range from youngest to oldest most years. My aim is to get each of these children working to the best of their own ability, but there's always going to be a huge range of abilities, which doesn't count for much on a standardised test

    What about pupils with Special Needs? What about pupils with dyslexia/dyscalculia etc (they no longer count for resource hours, so are not guaranteed any extra help, so wouldn't be counted under SEN).
    We always count any child with a diagnosis of a special need on our DES returns. We have a number of exceptionally able children who are 2E (twice exceptional, maybe dyslexia + EA or whatever.)They might not be on or under the 10th percentile but do get support of some form if needed.I wonder if there is another PISA will those children who might skew the bell curve doing the equivalent of counting cattle down the bog the day the inspector was due to call as happened long ago. Self esteem eh??


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    #102
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    gaeilgebeo wrote: »
    So do you think a "spot check" on a really difficult class with serious learning and behavioural difficulties is going to be the same as a "spot check" on a class of straight A high achievers?

    If I can get my really weak class through a Junior Cert exam and they receive Cs and Ds(which is an excellent achievement for them) as opposed to my colleague who had a much stronger class who got As and Bs, is my "appraisal" going to be worse than my colleagues? As on paper my results won't be as high?

    How do you set the criteria for this "appraisal"?
    How do you set the "targets" you refer to?
    How will "continually assessing" a teacher work?



    All factors are variable, thats how appraisals work.

    You can continually assess a teachers work by the courses they are attending, ie courses on new approaches to certain methods, new practices etc.

    Another thing is how teachers help their students outside the class. Ie In sports, drama or etc study classes. Like every industry you got to go that extra yard outside your scope.

    Regarding grades, certain considerations have to be taken into account, how the students perform for other teachers, as in secondary school students dont have the same teacher for all subjects.

    Feedback from parents is a big thing in this too. I mean parent teacher meetings are a great thing providing they are organised at a time so parents can attend.

    Principals need to take a big role, i mean if the principal isnt rewarding backing up the good teachers, then teachers will move, like we do in private sector. This part is a long way off.


    I know there is holes in some of the things i say above, but instead of picking at the holes, ye need to embrace new changes to make things better for the good teachers.

    The unions only care about themselves and from want i seen in the past, alot of the top people in those unions were poor teachers. Ireland is a small place.


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    #103
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Define targets. I teach in a reasonably affluent school.More of our children would have some parental support and read/be read to at home than some other schools I know of. So, my children will probably perform better in tests, does that make me a better teacher?

    Ditto to assessments.On the spot checks are known as incidentals and are common in primary level, as are whole school evaluations. Our principal reviews all the results of the standardised maths and literacy tests each year. One class have had weaker results most of the way up, which to someone not involved in education would seem like a failure. However, on reviewing their IQ tests, the class in general are weaker academically and many of the kids are performing as would be expected, while some are actually above what the IQ tests would indicate.


    Targets are up for ye to sort out. Ye are the experts in the system. Dont expect someone else to sort your mess out, but ye need to do something quickly to reward the good people in the system.

    Cause if ye dont, things will get worst and further cuts will happen. Get back on the horse, look at Finland.


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    #104
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    Where I work the salary is 75k + pension + living in Dublin allowance + travel allowance + a couple of other allowances.

    That brings the total to 88k.

    Now I could work for another company for 88k salary with no allowances.

    Its all the same thing. Allowances are part or your salary...

    I have a friend who works for a company where he gets 14 pay checks a year instead of 12. One extra in August and one extra in December.
    Now this is his yearly salary paid in 14 payments instead of 12.

    But when others hear about it they start complaining that he gets 14 months salary a year.

    People will never understand anything that is not set up like their own setup.

    Teachers are going to get pulled here there and everywhere until they bite back.

    Imagine the government sitting in there doing their dirty work.
    "Lets charge them a pension levy." - Ok they complained a bit, but didnt strike so it wasnt too bad on them.

    "Lets take away something else." - OK, more complaining, but no strike. They obviousl still have too much money.

    "Lets take their allowances." - If there is a strike then we'll stop, but if not, what else can we take.

    If teachers went on an all out strike for 2 days a week, then people and the government might sit up and take notice of what they do. Or they could just keep talking about how unfairly they are being treated. That wont get them any respect though.


    Sorry allowances for living in Dublin, travelling allowances or any other allowances like this is plain wrong. Thats what wrong with the PS.

    If you work in Dublin, thats grand, its up to you where you work, or you go where the work is. No allowances for it.

    All allowances needs to be scrap. All pensions needs to be scrap. The pensions needs to work the same way as the private sector.

    After this budget the goverment should scrap the pension system, whatever is there goes to your private and from here in, goverment gives 5% to your pension and you pay some to it if you want.

    Now goverment wont do this as cutting their own pensions then. This country is screwed big time and eventually we will go bankrupt, either in a few years or another 20. Then everything in PS will be wiped and alot of families will be hurt. Change needs to happen now.


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    #105
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Kaner, I agree that it is time to shout "stop."People seem to detest teachers anyhow so to hell with it, one good all-out few days would work wonders.


    I respect alot of teachers, but dont respect allowances.

    Go on strike, ye get no support, the people of Ireland know now is time for change and the private sector are getting more vocal each day.

    Just imagine if the private sector do a mass walk out, ye have no wages as no taxes will come in.


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    #106
    ucd.1985
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭ucd.1985


    E.T. wrote: »
    Do engineers/hairdressers/plumbers etc have to put up with constant trolling? Just wondering?

    No they dont because if your a crap hair dresser I wont go to you again, if your a crap plumber I wont hire you again and if yor a crap engineer you have a good chance of losing your job.

    If my son / daughter has a crap teacher, and there are a lot of extremely poor teachers out there, I have no options.


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    #107
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    ucd.1985 wrote: »

    there are a lot of extremely poor teachers out there.

    How do you work this out? How it is measured? Define 'a lot' - is it 40 per cent? 50 per cent? 22.64 per cent? Or what? How do you know they are 'extremely poor'? How is 'extremely poor', as opposed to just 'fairly poor' or even 'poor' or even 'half middling' defined?

    In other words how do we know what you are saying is complete BS that you made up five minutes ago? If I wrote that there are a lot of extremely bad drivers would it be any less valid an observation even though I couldn't adduce a whit of worthwhile evidence (and would have to rely on an extremely small anecdotal and subjective sample who have personally p*ssed me off) to defend the comment?

    What you are saying is one of the two or three general gripes at teachers but any challenge to it tends to send the person scuttling back to "I had a crap teacher for x subject" or even the old standard "everyone knows" appeal to the masses as opposed to anything which might remotely properly defend what on the face of it seems quite an extreme, generalised and unsubstantiated view. Then again maybe it's different this time...

    P.S. Just pre-emptively...I am not saying that there are not bad teachers. Just that I have no idea how anybody can quantify them even with a relatively vague quantifier such as 'a lot'.


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    #108
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    ucd.1985 wrote: »
    No they dont because if your a crap hair dresser I wont go to you again, if your a crap plumber I wont hire you again and if yor a crap engineer you have a good chance of losing your job.

    If my son / daughter has a crap teacher, and there are a lot of extremely poor teachers out there, I have no options.
    Yes you do, there is an official procedure where you can make a formal complaint and the teacher can be removed, if there are grounds to do so.


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    #109
    Kaner2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    average_runner wrote: »
    Sorry allowances for living in Dublin, travelling allowances or any other allowances like this is plain wrong. Thats what wrong with the PS.

    If you work in Dublin, thats grand, its up to you where you work, or you go where the work is. No allowances for it.

    All allowances needs to be scrap. All pensions needs to be scrap. The pensions needs to work the same way as the private sector.

    After this budget the goverment should scrap the pension system, whatever is there goes to your private and from here in, goverment gives 5% to your pension and you pay some to it if you want.

    Now goverment wont do this as cutting their own pensions then. This country is screwed big time and eventually we will go bankrupt, either in a few years or another 20. Then everything in PS will be wiped and alot of families will be hurt. Change needs to happen now.

    I was speaking as a private sector worker. I'm not public sector. Yet you assume because I get something you dont get that I am a public sector worker. I'll take any allowances I can get, as I'm sure would you.


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    #110
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    I was speaking as a private sector worker. I'm not public sector. Yet you assume because I get something you dont get that I am a public sector worker. I'll take any allowances I can get, as I'm sure would you.


    Sorry but i never assumed anything about you. What i said was allowances are stupid and wrong for where people work.

    Would i accept allowances, yes of course but i also wouldnt strike or anything if they were stop. Thinkgs are tough now and people cant expect other people to suffer more so they have their allowances.


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    #111
    E.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭E.T.


    ucd.1985 wrote: »
    No they dont because if your a crap hair dresser I wont go to you again, if your a crap plumber I wont hire you again and if yor a crap engineer you have a good chance of losing your job.

    If my son / daughter has a crap teacher, and there are a lot of extremely poor teachers out there, I have no options.

    Thanks for providing a great example of the type of post that I'm personally sick of.

    I've reported your post for general sweeping statements but I want to address where you took part of my post and quoted it out of context.

    The quote was part of a post about trolling in the T&L forum and specifically about how trolls are disrupting professional queries from teachers. My question was very clearly in this context.

    It has nothing to do with your proofless claim about extremely poor teachers whatsoever but I'll leave that claim to the forum mods.


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    #112
    E.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭E.T.


    average_runner wrote: »
    Sorry but i never assumed anything about you. What i said was allowances are stupid and wrong for where people work.

    Would i accept allowances, yes of course but i also wouldnt strike or anything if they were stop. Thinkgs are tough now and people cant expect other people to suffer more so they have their allowances.

    Just a factual question - do you know what teachers get allowances for?


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    #113
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    E.T. wrote: »
    Just a factual question - do you know what teachers get allowances for?

    The union website says the following:

    Not every task that a teacher undertakes outside the classroom needs to be
    separately paid for through the allocation of a TA. Before awarding a TA, the
    relevant body must be satisfied that the teacher’s duties include
    responsibilities that:
    • are not required of all classroom teachers;
    • are focused primarily on teaching and learning; and
    • require the exercise of a teacher’s professional skills and judgement.
    Such responsibilities must also conform to at least one of the following
    descriptions:-
    a) require the teacher to lead, manage and develop a subject or curriculum
    area; or to lead and manage pupil development across the curriculum;
    b) have an impact on the educational progress of pupils other than the
    teacher’s assigned classes or groups of pupils;
    c) involve leading, developing and enhancing the teaching practice of other
    staff.


    What i am saying is the following, do you expect someone else to take a hit for a teacher to get an allowance. Alot of these allowances are what people do for free in private sector.


    The system needs to change. We can have anymore dead wood getting carried in our system. We need to adopt to something like the model in Finland. If a teacher is not performing then he/she has to be let go and top teachers be rewarded, its how we improve our education system.

    I had teachers in school that thought me maths and i could solve questions in the text book they couldnt do because they forgot the answer book !!!!! Thats an example of a poor teacher.


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    #114
    Kaner2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    average_runner wrote: »
    Sorry but i never assumed anything about you. What i said was allowances are stupid and wrong for where people work.

    Would i accept allowances, yes of course but i also wouldnt strike or anything if they were stop. Thinkgs are tough now and people cant expect other people to suffer more so they have their allowances.

    You wouldnt strike because you cant strike. You are not powerful enough to make a difference with a strike. Teachers are though, and the sooner they wield this power the sooner they can get back to work without having to listen to sh1te from people who dont even know what they actually do for their salary.

    Im doing some voluntary work in a school this week and I can tell you the teachers in there this week are working for their money, and i'm working them hard too, yet everyone assumes all teachers are on holidays and do nothing when not in the class room.


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    #115
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    You wouldnt strike because you cant strike. You are not powerful enough to make a difference with a strike. Teachers are though, and the sooner they wield this power the sooner they can get back to work without having to listen to sh1te from people who dont even know what they actually do for their salary.

    Im doing some voluntary work in a school this week and I can tell you the teachers in there this week are working for their money, and i'm working them hard too, yet everyone assumes all teachers are on holidays and do nothing when not in the class room.


    Get off your high horse and dont assume we cant strike.
    Never said teachers dont do a good job but there are some who dont.

    I currently teaching my niece maths for junior cert as the teacher just cant teach the kids.
    Now i no doubt the teacher knows her/his stuff but cant express it to the kids.
    My niece is now flying it in Maths as i have shown her an approach that works.
    So why should this teacher be kept on if they cant teach?

    Now answer this, are you willing to pay another 3-4% extra tax to keep them there?
    Money is not there anymore, PS sector has to take cuts and we dont get value for money from it at the moment.


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    #116
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    average_runner wrote: »
    The union website says the following:

    Not every task that a teacher undertakes outside the classroom needs to be
    separately paid for through the allocation of a TA. Before awarding a TA, the
    relevant body must be satisfied that the teacher’s duties include
    responsibilities that:
    • are not required of all classroom teachers;
    • are focused primarily on teaching and learning; and
    • require the exercise of a teacher’s professional skills and judgement.
    Such responsibilities must also conform to at least one of the following
    descriptions:-
    a) require the teacher to lead, manage and develop a subject or curriculum
    area; or to lead and manage pupil development across the curriculum;
    b) have an impact on the educational progress of pupils other than the
    teacher’s assigned classes or groups of pupils;
    c) involve leading, developing and enhancing the teaching practice of other
    staff.


    What i am saying is the following, do you expect someone else to take a hit for a teacher to get an allowance. Alot of these allowances are what people do for free in private sector.


    The system needs to change. We can have anymore dead wood getting carried in our system. We need to adopt to something like the model in Finland. If a teacher is not performing then he/she has to be let go and top teachers be rewarded, its how we improve our education system.

    I had teachers in school that thought me maths and i could solve questions in the text book they couldnt do because they forgot the answer book !!!!! Thats an example of a poor teacher.

    You still didn't answer the question posed to you. Do you know what the allowances are for?

    I get an allowance as an Adult Education Co-ordinator. On top of my timetable for teaching, I am responsible for all the administrative duties of our adult education centre: dealing with grant related queries, monitoring attendance and chasing up students about their attendance, exam entries, promotion of courses, responding to queries about courses, a mountain of paperwork, there's loads more but I won't go into it right now. I teach a full timetable.

    If I was in the private sector, it wouldn't be called an allowance, it would simply be a larger pay packet for being in a managerial role rather than someone on the office floor.

    I don't know many managers that are willing to work for the same amount of money as the people they manage, so realistically I don't see why I should.


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    #117
    Kaner2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    average_runner wrote: »
    Get off your high horse and dont assume we cant strike.
    Never said teachers dont do a good job but there are some who dont.

    I currently teaching my niece maths for junior cert as the teacher just cant teach the kids.
    Now i no doubt the teacher knows her/his stuff but cant express it to the kids.
    My niece is now flying it in Maths as i have shown her an approach that works.
    So why should this teacher be kept on if they cant teach?

    Now answer this, are you willing to pay another 3-4% extra tax to keep them there?
    Money is not there anymore, PS sector has to take cuts and we dont get value for money from it at the moment.


    Calm down. Calm down.

    Well can you strike? If you strike on your own you'll be a long time making an impression.

    Are you also teaching your niece all of the other subjects she learns in school. Maybe you should help her with them too. Tip - Dont try to teach her English.

    I hope she doesnt do worse at maths than she would have because you have a special method that works - that people who have been trained to teach it dont know.

    Another case of someone thinking they can do the other guys job better than the other guy.

    Imagine how good your niece would have been at maths if you had shown her your special method since she first started learning maths. She'd be in NASA by now. You missed a trick there.


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    #118
    Kaner2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    You still didn't answer the question posed to you. Do you know what the allowances are for?

    I get an allowance as an Adult Education Co-ordinator. On top of my timetable for teaching, I am responsible for all the administrative duties of our adult education centre: dealing with grant related queries, monitoring attendance and chasing up students about their attendance, exam entries, promotion of courses, responding to queries about courses, a mountain of paperwork, there's loads more but I won't go into it right now. I teach a full timetable.

    If I was in the private sector, it wouldn't be called an allowance, it would simply be a larger pay packet for being in a managerial role rather than someone on the office floor.

    I don't know many managers that are willing to work for the same amount of money as the people they manage, so realistically I don't see why I should.

    If I were you and it came about that I didnt get paid for the work, I would stop doing the work.


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    #119
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    Calm down. Calm down.

    Well can you strike? If you strike on your own you'll be a long time making an impression.

    Are you also teaching your niece all of the other subjects she learns in school. Maybe you should help her with them too. Tip - Dont try to teach her English.

    I hope she doesnt do worse at maths than she would have because you have a special method that works - that people who have been trained to teach it dont know.

    Another case of someone thinking they can do the other guys job better than the other guy.

    Imagine how good your niece would have been at maths if you had shown her your special method since she first started learning maths. She'd be in NASA by now. You missed a trick there.


    I dont teach her any other subjects because the other teachers are top class.

    "
    I hope she doesnt do worse at maths than she would have because you have a special method that works - that people who have been trained to teach it dont know.

    Another case of someone thinking they can do the other guys job better than the other guy."

    I am better at explaining things to her than the teacher, since she is now top of her class in maths, gone from 45 per cent last summer to 89% this christmas !!!!

    This why there is a problem in the system, you cant see there is an issue as your blinker, hence the system will never improve.

    Actually she wants to be a teacher and i will encourage her. Should always encourage a child to aim for their dreams without any pressure.


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    #120
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Kaner2004 wrote: »
    If I were you and it came about that I didnt get paid for the work, I would stop doing the work.


    Well funny that, in last six months i am in charge of my own team which means i have to monitor them, ensure all work is done on schedule, approve their holidays, do their reviews etc.

    Oh no pay rise here for that. And funny thing here, if we mess up if will effect every person in the country!!!


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    #121
    Kaner2004
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Kaner2004


    average_runner wrote: »
    I dont teach her any other subjects because the other teachers are top class.

    "
    I hope she doesnt do worse at maths than she would have because you have a special method that works - that people who have been trained to teach it dont know.

    Another case of someone thinking they can do the other guys job better than the other guy."

    I am better at explaining things to her than the teacher, since she is now top of her class in maths, gone from 45 per cent last summer to 89% this christmas !!!!

    This why there is a problem in the system, you cant see there is an issue as your blinker, hence the system will never improve.

    Actually she wants to be a teacher and i will encourage her. Should always encourage a child to aim for their dreams without any pressure.

    If you say so. But you'll forgive me if I tell you that I know no more about how good you are at your job and how hard you work, than I or you know about how good or hard working teachers are.

    My maths went from D1 in the mocks to A2 in the leaving cert. My Dad thinks it was his sitting me down and teaching me statistics (wrongly) for a total of 3 nights one week. It was actually my maths teacher taking me and a few others aside for an hour after school twice a week. But if it makes my Dad feel like a genius, who am I to argue.


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