Custom fit at Carton House recently

Rodrigo · 10-03-2012 6:20pm #1

I recently got fitted out for driver and woods at Carton House and everything there is top class from the guy doing the fitting to the facilities and also the huge selection of shafts, however I'm not so sure if its really worth the bother unless maybe you're a very low handicapper. Like nearly all fitters dealing with moderate to useful golfers, they recommend that you must get your launch angle up. I was told that my 10.5 degree Ping G10 was delofting at impact to about 7 or 8 degrees hence the need to increase the launch angle. On the day I wasn't hitting my own or the trial clubs flat out but he insisted that increasing the launch angle was the way to go, he set the driver to about 12 degrees, who am I to argue. I bought the clubs (Titleist 910 D2 driver, 3 wood and hybrid) and and they are better than my former set BUT not at the settings that Carton House suggested. Out on the course all I was doing was hitting it way up in the air and then dropping like a stone about 50 or more yards less than my Ping G10, I even gave it to a decent golfer for a few drives and he did the same thing with it. Only when I adjusted the clubs down to the lowest possible settings did I begin to get comparable distances and better than my old driver. I think the only real benefit I got out of the fitting was the correct shaft and thank god for adjustable drivers otherwise I'd have been stung with 12 degree driver that would be virtually useless.

Russman · 10-03-2012 9:10pm

In fairness, he can only do the fit based on the swing you're using on the day. Why were you not hitting flat out or normally ?

Rodrigo · 10-03-2012 10:31pm

When I say I wasn't hitting it flat out, I mean I probably was firing about 10 to 15% less than usual purely because I hadn't really played for about 2 weeks prior to the fitting due to weather work etc. Even If I had smashed every drive It still wouldn't have any overall difference to the result.

Russman · 10-03-2012 11:43pm

Possibly, but you'd be surprised at the difference a 10 or 15% increase in speed would make to launch angle and especially spin rates.

Or maybe the fitter was having a bad day at the office

Benny Cake · 11-03-2012 1:07am

Rodrigo wrote: »

When I say I wasn't hitting it flat out, I mean I probably was firing about 10 to 15% less than usual purely because I hadn't really played for about 2 weeks prior to the fitting due to weather work etc. Even If I had smashed every drive It still wouldn't have any overall difference to the result.

I'd say this is the problem. If you're not happy then why not contact them and say so....

neckedit · 11-03-2012 10:00am

You shouldn't of went for the fitting! Not Titleist fault you hadn't played in 2 weeks or that you where not swinging full tilt, He can only work on what you give him. Postponing the session would of made more sense.

Dr_Colossus · 11-03-2012 1:05pm

Rodrigo wrote: »

When I say I wasn't hitting it flat out, I mean I probably was firing about 10 to 15% less than usual purely because I hadn't really played for about 2 weeks prior to the fitting due to weather work etc. Even If I had smashed every drive It still wouldn't have any overall difference to the result.

Benny Cake wrote: »

I'd say this is the problem. If you're not happy then why not contact them and say so....

2 weeks is nothing really, I wouldn't say that's your problem. If you spent 10-15 minutes warming up on the range before the fitting it would have negated any two weeks absence from the game. As to swinging 10-15% below standard, unless a niggle or injury was upsetting you then I don't see why you wouldn't have tried to give it your normal swing or at least explained to the fitter that you weren't on form that day and perhaps he could have taken that into consideration when choosing the optimal fitting.

k.p.h · 11-03-2012 2:02pm

Russman wrote: »

Or maybe the fitter was having a bad day at the office

Not meaning to contradict you or anything Russman but I was just thinking, a fitters job really is to set up the club so it performs as close as possible to a certain set of numbers e.g optimum launch and spin. Them numbers are well defined so I doubt the fitter fecked up that much..

It's pretty unfortunate really, always wondered how things would work out if someone had a bad swing day on the day of a fitting, or if was like me always tinkering with the swing, get fitted, change something and then end up completely on the wrong track.

One thing is for sure, the benefit of adjustable driver is evident. At least can sort something and get the best out of what you have. I think the OP should give them a bell and ask them for for a few min on the trackman and just have a go a setting up the driver again. Probably a good chance will end up with it set as it is now, but at least some confidence will be restored.

neckedit · 11-03-2012 2:12pm

I'm sorry but a fitter cannot take the fact he is swinging slower than usual, as he has no idea what usual is, even if he is to say I'm 15% slower than I usually swing, that means nothing to the fitter as there are too many variables to consider when some one swings harder.

Russman · 11-03-2012 2:54pm

k.p.h wrote: »

Not meaning to contradict you or anything Russman but I was just thinking, a fitters job really is to set up the club so it performs as close as possible to a certain set of numbers e.g optimum launch and spin. Them numbers are well defined so I doubt the fitter fecked up that much..

Ahh yeah, I know he wouldn't have messed up by much, I was having a laugh really with that comment. Henry in Carton House is extremely good at what he does, but I suppose as a few have said, he can only work with what he sees on the day.
Plus, Trackman is more or less the gold standard when it comes to launch monitors so the data will be accurate. I've seen guys being fitted swear they hit their 4 iron 210yds and yet shot after shot comes out at 170yds and they refuse to accept a recommendation based on that number. (I'm not implying this is you Op !)

f22 · 11-03-2012 3:08pm

Half a fitters job is managing physical numbers vs ego and false expectation.

Rodrigo · 11-03-2012 4:37pm

I think I should make myself clearer here, I quite happy with the driver I got, the shaft, fitting etc all top class. Whats not correct for me is the launch angle and when I say I wasn't hitting it flat out, I think perhaps I overstated that a bit, it really wouldn't have made any difference to the overall fitting. My point is simple, all golf club fitters seem to suggest a high launch for most golfers during a fitting but for me out on the course it simply balloons to the heavens with little roll on landing whereas when I lower the settings contrary to what was recommended I get a nice lower flight and much more roll on landing.

Henry Ford III · 11-03-2012 5:24pm

I think unless you are a very very good player, who has a swing that has a huge degree of repetition custom fitting is a waste of time and money.

A mid handicapper is just as capable of making a poor swing with a standard club as one custom fitted.

It also ruins any used value on the clubs.

Most people would be much better advised use the money for supervised practice and lessons.

Benny Cake · 11-03-2012 5:43pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think unless you are a very very good player, who has a swing that has a huge degree of repetition custom fitting is a waste of time and money.

A mid handicapper is just as capable of making a poor swing with a standard club as one custom fitted.

It also ruins any used value on the clubs.

Most people would be much better advised use the money for supervised practice and lessons.

Fair enough, but surely you would agree that when spending 600+ on a set of irons, you are better off spending an extra 50 on getting fitted to give yourself the best chance possible of getting the correct setup. A mid-high handicapper clearly doesn't have a perfect swing but to say its money wasted is disingenuous imo...

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 11:22am

Benny Cake wrote: »

Fair enough, but surely you would agree that when spending 600+ on a set of irons, you are better off spending an extra 50 on getting fitted to give yourself the best chance possible of getting the correct setup. A mid-high handicapper clearly doesn't have a perfect swing but to say its money wasted is disingenuous imo...

You'd be better off spending way less and getting your basics sorted. Practice in conjunction with lessons is the only way.

ShriekingSheet · 12-03-2012 12:08pm

f22 wrote: »

Half a fitters job is managing physical numbers vs ego and false expectation.

+1

It does sound a tad like he recommended a 12 degree driver and you thought "no way, that's a hackers club", or "my mates would laugh me off the tee".

If you and the low h'cap friend can only balloon the 12 degree 45" shaft driver 50 yards behind your own driver, presumably you both use your 15 degree 42" shaft 3 wood for flop shots around the green.

dines08 · 12-03-2012 12:16pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd be better off spending way less and getting your basics sorted. Practice in conjunction with lessons is the only way.

Have you ever been fitted?

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 12:40pm

dines08 wrote: »

Have you ever been fitted?

That's unimportant. I know plenty of really good players who have never been however, and could make a decent swing with a broom.

Yes decent golf equipment is certainly a factor, but the difference between good and top brand clubs/balls, and fitting/not fitting is way less important than the ability to make a sound and repeating swing.

ShriekingSheet · 12-03-2012 12:46pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's unimportant.

It is slightly important, to be fair.

k.p.h · 12-03-2012 12:53pm

I do actually agree with this,

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd be better off spending way less and getting your basics sorted. Practice in conjunction with lessons is the only way.

but, golf is a game of inches. If getting fitted for the right clubs improves an 18hc who regularly shot 90 by just 2%. That's 1.8 shots a round, would not be long before that player was a 17hc..! Every little bit counts.

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 12:55pm

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

It is slightly important, to be fair.

Can't see how it would be tbh.

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 1:00pm

k.p.h wrote: »

I do actually agree with this,

but, golf is a game of inches. If getting fitted for the right clubs improves an 18hc who regularly shot 90 by just 2%. That's 1.8 shots a round, would not be long before that player was a 17hc..! Every little bit counts.

Yes every little helps, but altering the shaft length, flex, kickpoint etc. together with lofts and lies may just as easily adversely affect your ability should your setup and swing be faulty or non repeating.

A change in stance, posture, alignment, fitness etc. togeter with swing improvements could render custom fit clubs a limiting factor.

Remember the custom fit business is still a business. Turnover is key.

dines08 · 12-03-2012 1:05pm

In my opinion it is important to know whether you'd ever been fitted. I'd respect your advice on fitting/lessons much more if you'd experienced both and were basing it off of this. I've never had lessons, my swing isn't pretty but it is repeatable 7-8 times out of 10. I've been fitted for my woods and they've taken 4-5 strokes off my game.

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 1:10pm

dines08 wrote: »

In my opinion it is important to know whether you'd ever been fitted. I'd respect your advice on fitting/lessons much more if you'd experienced both and were basing it off of this. I've never had lessons, my swing isn't pretty but it is repeatable 7-8 times out of 10. I've been fitted for my woods and they've taken 4-5 strokes off my game.

It's simply not relevant, so I'm not going to answer.

I've plenty of golfing experience though, have played off low single figures, and had a few lessons here and there.

No offence but 4-5 shots off your score with fitted woods is as likely be down to luck/confidence as anything else.

As I said before a good player can hit good shots with most reasonable clubs.

Russman · 12-03-2012 1:25pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

As I said before a good player can hit good shots with most reasonable clubs.

Possibly true, but if the lie/length are completely wrong for the guy, say, he's 6' 3" and has a very upright and fast swing ? Clearly "standard" clubs will not be right for him. If he's using them very well, its likely there is a compromise going on somewhere in his technique. Why not get the benefit of modern analysis and get a set that are more suited ?

As it happens, one of my best friends is a fitter with one of the big manufacturers and I've had the chance to experiment with the equipment and, seriously, the difference that changing shafts in the same head makes is quite incredible. I'm a reasonably competent golfer (I like to think

) and with some shafts in a driver head i could hardly get the ball airborne yet the same head with a different shaft turned out to be my optimal combination.

The idea with the fitting of amateurs who don't really swing with 100% consistency (does anyone ?) is to make the bad shots better. You'll find that most people's swing speed is virtually the same shot after shot, no matter how good or bad they hit it, the bad shots are usually more to do with direction/plane/mis-hits etc.

Don't knock it til you've tried it.

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 1:43pm

Russman wrote: »

Possibly true, but if the lie/length are completely wrong for the guy, say, he's 6' 3" and has a very upright and fast swing ? Clearly "standard" clubs will not be right for him. If he's using them very well, its likely there is a compromise going on somewhere in his technique. Why not get the benefit of modern analysis and get a set that are more suited ?

As it happens, one of my best friends is a fitter with one of the big manufacturers and I've had the chance to experiment with the equipment and, seriously, the difference that changing shafts in the same head makes is quite incredible. I'm a reasonably competent golfer (I like to think ) and with some shafts in a driver head i could hardly get the ball airborne yet the same head with a different shaft turned out to be my optimal combination.

The idea with the fitting of amateurs who don't really swing with 100% consistency (does anyone ?) is to make the bad shots better. You'll find that most people's swing speed is virtually the same shot after shot, no matter how good or bad they hit it, the bad shots are usually more to do with direction/plane/mis-hits etc.

Don't knock it til you've tried it.

Who said I didn't try it?

Ping did all that donkeys years ago with colour coding. Guess which sold most? Black or standard.

As I said I can some benefit for exceptional players be they exceptionally tall, short, or highly skilled. I saw Joe Miller the long drive fella hitting 400+yards on a simulator on tv recently - he's a monster and needed a 4 degree driver!

Westwood famously played with the same set of basically pretty stock irons for many years, and he did fine.

I reckon all this high end custom fitting & fancy golf balls is a pretty cynical marketing ploy.

I'd get a lot of enjoyment out of playing someone wth "all the gear but no idea".

ShriekingSheet · 12-03-2012 1:44pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Can't see how it would be tbh.

It's important/relevent because you're putting accross a wise and informed argument. Someone questioning the basis of your strong view is pretty understandable.

If your view is based on previously being a low handicap yourself, knowing some low guys, and never actually being fitted yourself, it's pretty undermining, and fair for other posters to disagree with you.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes every little helps, but altering the shaft length, flex, kickpoint etc. together with lofts and lies may just as easily adversely affect your ability should your setup and swing be faulty or non repeating.

A change in stance, posture, alignment, fitness etc. togeter with swing improvements could render custom fit clubs a limiting factor.

Remember the custom fit business is still a business. Turnover is key.

As it goes, until quite recently I agreed with a lot of the same sentiment, though I've been fitted with different technologies over the years, as well as my family and mates at different pros and centres. I also have a dim view of the industry's constant effort to squeeze more cash out of people, especially on flase claims of improved performance.

Recently though, there seems to be more and more guys in my club, and others I hear of, are getting a full bag fit and improving considerably, and quickly. At a high amateur level, pretty much everyone I'm aware of in the plus and scratch ball park do some kind of fitting.

The fitting techniques and facilities themselves seem to be improving, so all taken into account, I think it's fair to say it's worth considering.

In context, if you're going to spend a lot of money on new clubs anyway, an extra few euro on fitting seems to make sense. Certainly more sense than shelling out a huge amount for something you pick off the shelf, that the shop assistant reckons will be perfect for you.

I have my current set for over 4 years, and feel due a change for a few reasons. I'm going to Titleist for a full fit. The extra cost of the fit is pretty small, given the overall cost of the clubs. I'm happy to pay it to ensure what I'm getting for my money will be as good as possible.

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 1:51pm

I'm not asking or demanding that everyone agree with my view S.S. I really don't mind if they respect it or otherwise too.

I'm just stating my views. That's all.

Russman · 12-03-2012 2:06pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Who said I didn't try it?

Ping did all that donkeys years ago with colour coding. Guess which sold most? Black or standard.

As I said I can some benefit for exceptional players be they exceptionally tall, short, or highly skilled. I saw Joe Miller the long drive fella hitting 400+yards on a simulator on tv recently - he's a monster and needed a 4 degree driver!

Westwood famously played with the same set of basically pretty stock irons for many years, and he did fine.

I reckon all this high end custom fitting & fancy golf balls is a pretty cynical marketing ploy.

I'd get a lot of enjoyment out of playing someone wth "all the gear but no idea".

I'd have no doubt that a lot of people will fall into the "standard" category, but I really don't believe it to be a cynical marketing ploy. Sure, its a business and they're ultimately out to make money, but if a (usually free if you purchase) fitting can help, then it has to be a win win scenario.

If being fitted for a driver helps me hit, say for example, one less destructive drive per round, then, over time, of course my confidence will improve with the driver. Naturally with more confidence, you'll hit better shots - you could argue its directly related to the fitting. If I'm on more fairways, I'll likely hit more greens and likely make more birdies etc etc. Obviously the correlation isn't scientific but if a fitting gives me an extra x% in my game then its worth it IMO.

I've also seen people go for a fitting with one particular brand and be told their current equipment is fine for them and there's no significant advantage to be had from changing, unless they want to change for the sake of change. So i'm reluctant to completely write it off as a marketing ploy.

Re Westwood and his Pings, for every supremely talented player, there are thousands of lesser mortals who need all the help they can get with golf. TBH that argument is like me wondering why I can't hit Bubba Watson's driver and insisting I won't change because if Bubba can hit it, I should be able to too

Henry Ford III · 12-03-2012 2:17pm

Russman wrote: »

...TBH that argument is like me wondering why I can't hit Bubba Watson's driver and insisting I won't change because if Bubba can hit it, I should be able to too

It's because by comparison you are supremely untalented, might not be too confident weilding a bright pink driver, and you're probably right handed too

dines08 · 12-03-2012 4:02pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's simply not relevant, so I'm not going to answer.

I've plenty of golfing experience though, have played off low single figures, and had a few lessons here and there.

No offence but 4-5 shots off your score with fitted woods is as likely be down to luck/confidence as anything else.

As I said before a good player can hit good shots with most reasonable clubs.

Almost exactly the answer I expected. I'll just try and stay lucky and you can stay looking down your nose at the rest of us

Custom fit at Carton House recently

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