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24-03-2012, 22:09   #61
snafuk35
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If I had been born into any other religion my constant questioning of "is this right" would ultimately have led me to converting to Catholicism.
Even if you were never exposed to it?
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In probabilistic terms the next most likely religion to have been born into would be Islam and while its Abrahamaic and believes in God ultimately it is not a religion of peace and that is a problem for humankind. If it presents a problem then it cannot be right and true.
A Muslim would say the same about Christianity e.g. Crusades etc.

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If I had been born into Judaism my questioning nature would have led me to the study of Jesus Christ and any study of Jesus leads ultimately to joining His Church.
How do you explain the phenomena of Muslim and Jews theologians who have studied Christian texts or Christians theologians who have become atheists?

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With Buddhism I imagine I would have had problems with its attitude to marriage and with its lack of a God, who is more and more evident the deeper one delves into science.
Yet how many Buddhists have converted to Catholicism?

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I could go one but essentially any exploration of why the Church teaches what it does leads to one place and one place only.
That's self-evidently false. I have read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I was brought up a Catholic and I have left the faith.

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The only question remaining is whether you accept it or reject it.
You have just contradicted you entire post.
You have basically protrayed the Catholic faith as the one and true religion and you claim that anyone who is exposed to Catholic teaching will inevitably convert. And you claim that if you were born anywhere in the world and no matter what religion you were born into - you would still be a Catholic today?
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24-03-2012, 22:32   #62
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How do you explain the phenomena of Muslim and Jews theologians who have studied Christian texts or Christians theologians who have become atheists?
They find lies attractive and it suits them to ignore the truth.

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You have just contradicted you entire post.
You have basically protrayed the Catholic faith as the one and true religion and you claim that anyone who is exposed to Catholic teaching will inevitably convert.
That is not what I said. You introduced the term "exposed" and attempted to apply it to what I said. I said explored.

I've been exposed to Protestantism, Judaeism, Buddhism, atheism and a few more. I've explored them and found them lacking.

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And you claim that if you were born anywhere in the world and no matter what religion you were born into - you would still be a Catholic today?
Yes. I have an inquisitive nature.
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24-03-2012, 23:52   #63
Cato Maior
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I've been exposed to Protestantism, Judaeism, Buddhism, atheism and a few more. I've explored them and found them lacking.
Oddly, I explored Catholicism to the extent of being a seminarian for three and a half years. Even after I left I continued to study and explore. I prayed daily, continuing the practice of praying the Office, and attended mass at least weekly.

Yet in the end, I became convinced that it was not true across the course of one day.

Interesting that we should have had such different outcomes.
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24-03-2012, 23:57   #64
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Yet in the end, I became convinced that it was not true across the course of one day.
What was it that clinched it, if you don't mind me asking?
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25-03-2012, 00:03   #65
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What was it that clinched it, if you don't mind me asking?
I spent the day systematically doubting my beliefs (I had been re-reading Descartes) and testing them. I found that the arguments and evidence for believing that a god exists were insufficient and so rejected the hypothesis. It came as a shock and the struggle between heart and mind went on for some time, but reason won in the end.

We should probably leave it there as this is not the thread for such discussions. I only mentioned changing my beliefs in the context of this thread and in response to another on-topic poster.

Last edited by Cato Maior; 25-03-2012 at 00:07.
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25-03-2012, 00:20   #66
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I spent the day systematically doubting my beliefs (I had been re-reading Descartes) and testing them. I found that the arguments and evidence for believing that a god exists were insufficient and so rejected the hypothesis. It came as a shock and the struggle between heart and mind went on for some time, but reason won in the end.

We should probably leave it there as this is not the thread for such discussions. I only mentioned changing my beliefs in the context of this thread and in response to another on-topic poster.
Cato you became a 'stoic' yes? One who regards their behaviour constantly, and is aware of it constantly too....
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25-03-2012, 00:29   #67
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Cato you became a 'stoic' yes? One who regards their behaviour constantly, and is aware of it constantly too....
Aye, although the aim is really to form a 'habit' of virtuous behaviour through attention to one's actions, thoughts, judgements, and character formation. Mindfulness is important, as is a daily 'reckoning' of one's behaviour during the day.
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25-03-2012, 00:40   #68
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Aye, although the aim is really to form a 'habit' of virtuous behaviour through attention to one's actions, thoughts, judgements, and character formation. Mindfulness is important, as is a daily 'reckoning' of one's behaviour during the day.
I like this philosophy that is self examined, and very much 'aware' of themselves - although I can't entirely agree that Christianity doesn't incorporate it, or indeed rewrite it in ways sometimes?

We fail very badly sometimes, perhaps as much as the stoic philosophy of life, that died out long ago to any great degree - but we live with eachother and learn too from eachother...The 'stoics' are age old - I'm sad about you Cato, but if you are honest in your belief than I don't know, I think somebody let you down, or people in general, I had this to deal with - but not Christ.
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25-03-2012, 00:52   #69
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I like this philosophy that is self examined, and very much 'aware' of themselves - although I can't entirely agree that Christianity doesn't incorporate it, or indeed rewrite it in ways sometimes?

We fail very badly sometimes, perhaps as much as the stoic philosophy of life, that died out long ago to any great degree - but we live with eachother and learn too from eachother...The 'stoics' are age old - I'm sad about you Cato, but if you are honest in your belief than I don't know, I think somebody let you down, or people in general, I had this to deal with - but not Christ.
Oh Christianity does incorporate elements of Stoic philosophy - natural law for example. Stoic practice and techniques are not really found in Christianity, but they have re-emerged in CBT, and the creator of that acknowledged his debt to the Stoics.

I'm not entirely clear on your meaning in the second part of your post. Yes we fail to live up to our standards, but Stoicism has no equivalent of sin - one simply aims to learn, improve and move on from one's errors (taking responsibility for wrongs to others and seeking to right them). The wrong-doing does not burden one though - that would be foolish.

As I said, elements of Stoicism have re-emerged in CBT but they have raised their head from time to time throughout the history of ideas in Europe. It did not die off entirely with the Roman Stoics.

As to being let down - no, not to any great or significant degree and on the whole I am positive about people in general.
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25-03-2012, 02:22   #70
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Oh Christianity does incorporate elements of Stoic philosophy - natural law for example. Stoic practice and techniques are not really found in Christianity, but they have re-emerged in CBT, and the creator of that acknowledged his debt to the Stoics.

I'm not entirely clear on your meaning in the second part of your post. Yes we fail to live up to our standards, but Stoicism has no equivalent of sin - one simply aims to learn, improve and move on from one's errors (taking responsibility for wrongs to others and seeking to right them). The wrong-doing does not burden one though - that would be foolish.

As I said, elements of Stoicism have re-emerged in CBT but they have raised their head from time to time throughout the history of ideas in Europe. It did not die off entirely with the Roman Stoics.

As to being let down - no, not to any great or significant degree and on the whole I am positive about people in general.
You sing your praise in a choir - so do I Cato -
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