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Your ideal transport Budget changes

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  • 05-12-2007 2:22pm
    #1
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭


    Just something a little light-hearted for Budget day - What would you like to see in the budget that would affect transport in this country? No need to be completely realistic... :D

    My own list:

    No VRT and reduced VAT (13%) on motorcycles under 500cc
    Reduced VAT (13%) on bicycles and bicycle accessories (incl clothing)
    No VAT on motorcycle and bicycle safety clothing/equipment

    Emissions-based taxing on vehicles (taken from NCT results)
    No VRT for Hybrid vehicles.
    Reduced tax on hybrid fuels (such as Maxol's) and tax incentives for research and supply of said fuels.

    Ability to offset your PAYE/Income tax bill against public transport tickets. E.g. employee provides employer with their month's bus pass and the employer applies 50% of that as tax credits against the employee's paycheque.

    Radical, I know. But one can dream...


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    #2
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,872 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    seamus wrote: »
    No VRT and reduced VAT (13%) on motorcycles under 500cc
    Reduced VAT (13%) on bicycles and bicycle accessories (incl clothing)
    No VAT on motorcycle and bicycle safety clothing/equipment

    Agree, but why the 500cc limit, even a larger bike is environmentally a better commuting option than a small car stuck in traffic.
    Emissions-based taxing on vehicles (taken from NCT results)
    No VRT for Hybrid vehicles.
    Reduced tax on hybrid fuels (such as Maxol's) and tax incentives for research and supply of said fuels.

    Biofuels are highly dubious in our climate. Extracting oil then distilling it and refining it is highly energy intensive. Ethanol is even worse (it's produced by distillation). Until we can figure out how to make biofuel from the whole plant (cellulose) or algae, then biofuel is really just a 'feel-good' thing which helps the farmers out financially but has very little, if any, positive impact on the environment.

    Of course, in the third world biofuels are often worse again (destroying habitats, displacing food crops and indigenous populations). Brazil is probably the only place producing 'ethical' biofuel.

    Hybrid vehicles are pretty dubious when you take batteries etc. into account. Conventional diesel vehicles often have similar economy without that disadvantage, yet are penalised for tax compared to petrol or hybrid.

    Why bother with emission-based taxes anyway? A vehicle that's not used emits no exhaust. Tax should be entirely on the fuel. The higher the fixed annual charges of owning a vehicle are, the more determined the owner will be to get 'value' out of it. Taxing fuel encourages efficiency, discourages unnecessary use, and also makes public transport more attractive.

    Ability to offset your PAYE/Income tax bill against public transport tickets. E.g. employee provides employer with their month's bus pass and the employer applies 50% of that as tax credits against the employee's paycheque.

    There is already an annual tax relief scheme which is cumbersome enough to administer. A monthly scheme would be unworkable. Almost all purchasers of annual tickets will be taxpayers, so why not scrap the tax relief and have the government just subsidise these tickets directly, much simpler and no net cost to the exchequer.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #3
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Agree, but why the 500cc limit, even a larger bike is environmentally a better commuting option than a small car stuck in traffic.
    Indeed. In mind I was thinking of bikers with larger bikes who would see a significant drop in the value of their bikes. For smaller second hand bikes, the effect of dropping VRT would have less of an effect.

    Interesting stuff to know about biofuels. Worth some research anyway.
    Why bother with emission-based taxes anyway? A vehicle that's not used emits no exhaust. Tax should be entirely on the fuel. The higher the fixed annual charges of owning a vehicle are, the more determined the owner will be to get 'value' out of it. Taxing fuel encourages efficiency, discourages unnecessary use, and also makes public transport more attractive.
    In my mind, it's mainly because those who make serious use their vehicles won't be discouraged by higher petrol costs. They'll just offset it through other means or otherwise complain about costs. However, if the guys unnecessarily driving SUVs are seeing a massive bill come in once a year, it may make them think twice about switching to a more reasonable vehicle.
    There is already an annual tax relief scheme which is cumbersome enough to administer. A monthly scheme would be unworkable. Almost all purchasers of annual tickets will be taxpayers, so why not scrap the tax relief and have the government just subsidise these tickets directly, much simpler and no net cost to the exchequer.
    My suggestion was mainly to attempt to encourage more people to use public transport by having it directly affect their bottom line. Cheaper tickets mean little to people, IMO. However, if it means an extra €50 a month in their pay, it may seem more attractive.

    I agree that the existing scheme is a bit of a nightmare for employers, but it does little to encourage employees to use it. The tickets themselves are a massive payment - people who use public transport see the savings, but people who don't just see the massive cost of buying the ticket. The problem with my suggestion is that it would probably need a sea change in ticketing across the board.
    Perhaps something integrated like Oyster - the person tops up their card from wherever, authorises their employer to access their account details and the employer can extract all of their employees' transport costs for whatever period - they could decide to do it yearly or monthly.

    As I say though, it's more of a "dream wishlist" as opposed to something serious :)


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    #4
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    ninja900 wrote: »
    There is already an annual tax relief scheme which is cumbersome enough to administer. A monthly scheme would be unworkable. Almost all purchasers of annual tickets will be taxpayers, so why not scrap the tax relief and have the government just subsidise these tickets directly, much simpler and no net cost to the exchequer.

    But they should remove the cumbersomeness of it. You should be able to buy monthly tickets and perhaps claim against them the following year or some such. The way it has to be done via your employer puts a lot of companies off.


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    #5
    markf909
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭markf909


    Cowen is spending 1Bn on public transport and 1.7Bn on roads.

    He mentioned Midleton and WRC Phase 1 as being ready for 2009.
    He also mentioned Phase 1 of Navan to start.

    Luas tram size increases for Red Line and the money towards the extra line extensions.

    183 railcars ...... you get the jist, nothing new in his speech.

    No mention of metro or anything like that.


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    No VRT on mopeds or electric cars :D
    Cowen must've taken a sneak peek at boards before he went in


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    #7
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    markf909 wrote: »
    183 railcars ...... you get the jist, nothing new in his speech.

    No mention of metro or anything like that.

    While that is disappointing, Navan / Middleton getting started will be good. :)


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    #8
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    He should have taken all the money for Public Transport and stuck it into roads. What was it Maggy Thatcher said about public transport users again?:rolleyes:


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    #9
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    darkman2 wrote: »
    He should have taken all the money for Public Transport and stuck it into roads. What was it Maggy Thatcher said about public transport users again?:rolleyes:

    You need to be lucky all the time?


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    #10
    fitzyshea
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭fitzyshea


    Why do they insist on announcing everything again? The railcars - surely they are paid for by now or if not why is the money not kept aside for these things??? Same does for Lusa trams they are nearly all 40m now so what are they paying for? Did they not pay for these already when the contract is signed??


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    #11
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    fitzyshea wrote: »
    Same does for Lusa trams they are nearly all 40m now so what are they paying for? Did they not pay for these already when the contract is signed??

    I was assuming it was the new plan to extend the Luas trams to 50 and 52 meter that was mentioned on this board a few weeks ago.


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    #12
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,955 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    bk wrote: »
    I was assuming it was the new plan to extend the Luas trams to 50 and 52 meter that was mentioned on this board a few weeks ago.
    Nah I'm pretty sure they're referring to the 40m extensions on the Red Line, which isn't due to be completed until summer 2008. It's a rehash.

    For me, nothing exciting in the budget. Reannouncement of existing projects and stuff currently under construction. The only thing I saw was the submission of the Railway Order for Metro North which is due to happen this spring. Navan Phase 1 isn't due to start until December 2008 so it's a bit capricious to include it as a 2008 project when practically all the work will take place in 2009.

    So is Midleton-Cork under construction now or what? It should be.


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