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TESCO UPT appears on Bank Statement

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    #32
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    Its completely standard, the same system is used in any other garage that has pay at pump. Hardly a rip off, or part of some great scheme to part you with your cash. If your unable to be without the use of the euro, you can always just go in and pay in the shop.
    I can assure you that it's a brand new imposition by the banks / retailers and my post clearly raises an issue about an amount greater than €1, but if you must submit childish remarks about posts you haven't read and clearly don't understand then be my guest, have your juvenile fun; as this is not AH your post adds nothing of any value to the thread.

    I've been using debit and credit cards for very long time and with a huge range of bricks and mortar and online retailers. Tescos are and the hotels are in a minority in double-dipping charges against cards and blithely lying about how long it takes to have the money credited.


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    #33
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    mathepac wrote: »
    I can assure you that it's a brand new imposition by the banks / retailers and my post clearly raises an issue about an amount greater than €1, but if you must submit childish remarks about posts you haven't read and clearly don't understand then be my guest, have your juvenile fun; as this is not AH your post adds nothing of any value to the thread.

    I've been using debit and credit cards for very long time and with a huge range of bricks and mortar and online retailers. Tescos are and the hotels are in a minority in double-dipping charges against cards and blithely lying about how long it takes to have the money credited.

    So what's in it for them?


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    #34
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    So what's in it for them?

    Interest free loans, that gain Tesco interest in their bank account.

    You could call it, free money.


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    #35
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Several million transactions per week world-wide means several million euros to invest in over-night markets to make enough money to off-set the transaction charges imposed by the credit-card companies for example.

    Tescos run a bank. Does anyone know if the charge goes on a Tescos credit-card? If not, there's an incentive to switch to their card. They seem to be doing a Ryanair in retailing Unless you use a preferred method of payment there's a short-term penalty. We'll charge you for filling your own diesel and we'll charge you for paying us.


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    #36
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    Yeah but Tesco do not receive the money or have the use of it
    When a merchant swipes a customer's credit card, the credit card terminal connects to the merchant's acquirer, or credit card processor, which verifies that the customer's account is valid and that sufficient funds are available to cover the transaction's cost. At this step, the funds are "held" and deducted from the customer's credit limit (or bank balance, in the case of a debit card) but are not yet transferred to the merchant. At the end of the day, the merchant instructs the credit card machine to submit the finalized transactions to the acquirer in a "batch transfer," which begins the settlement process, where the funds are transferred from the customer's accounts to the merchant's accounts. Contrary to popular belief, this process is not instantaneous: the transaction may not appear on the customer's statement or online account activity for one to two days, and it can take up to three days for funds to be deposited in the merchant's account.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold


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  • Options
    #37
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I never understand the point of these things, or direct debt as they don't ensure payment.

    A bank will decline if there are insufficient funds and no overdraft facility or flexibility in place.

    Doesn't matter that they've checked that a 1 Euro worked all that proves is you've good for 1 Euro :)


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    #38
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    over to the conspiracy theory forums with the lot of you!


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    #39
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    Yeah but Tesco do not receive the money or have the use of it ...
    How do you know? That piece you quoted doesn't describe the process of double-dipping which is what we are discussing here. It describes in great detail the process that does NOT take place when you pay Tescos or book a hotel-room.


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    #40
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    over to the conspiracy theory forums with the lot of you!
    That post might be more appropriate to AH as it contributes nothing of vale to the debate here.


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    #41
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    mathepac wrote: »
    How do you know? That piece you quoted doesn't describe the process of double-dipping which is what we are discussing here. It describes in great detail the process that does NOT take place when you pay Tescos or book a hotel-room.

    Well to put things to bed i have emailed Tesco with the query, il report back when i hear anything.


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    #42
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    https://www.google.de/search?q=1+pound+pre-auth+tesco&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=GuT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=+site:forums.moneysavingexpert.com+1+pound+pre-auth+tesco&sa=X&ei=9cpBUfDpHebl4QSsuICwBQ&ved=0CEcQrQIwAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.bGE&fp=aef84b2676c9749c&biw=1280&bih=893

    You guys should get together.

    In any case its all quite normal.


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    #43
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    mathepac wrote: »
    That post might be more appropriate to AH as it contributes nothing of vale to the debate here.
    this may be true but you've no back up for youw sweeping statements. you've just made an assumption and are running with it.

    when you have some evidence to support your claim im looking forward to seeing it but i don't think i ever will.


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    #44
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    Well that was a quick response!
    Dear Pablo

    Thank you for your email. My name is xxxxx and I am the Customer Service Manager who is responsible for answering your email.

    I can confirm that the €1.00 is a check made by us to make sure you have enough funds in your account. This is never taken it just pends in your account until full payment is made.

    Please feel free to respond if there are any other queries you need to raise, I would be happy to personally help you with anything further.

    Kind regards

    xxxxxx xxxxxxxx
    Tesco Ireland Customer Service


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    #45
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    So same answer post #19 so.

    The €1 is not taken, but you can't spend it while it's reserved!


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    #46
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    this may be true but you've no back up for youw sweeping statements. you've just made an assumption and are running with it.

    when you have some evidence to support your claim im looking forward to seeing it but i don't think i ever will.
    Please troll elsewhere. Thanks.
    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    Well to put things to bed i have emailed Tesco with the query, il report back when i hear anything.
    Their response puts nothing to bed for me I'm afraid. What would you expect Tescos call-centre rep to say to say in any case? They have scripts that they churn out in response to queries. If you'd asked him a few weeks ago how much horse-meat Tescos sold in the food-products, what response would you have expected?
    keithclancy wrote: »
    ... In any case its all quite normal.
    No it's not, it's new. I have held and used ATM cards, debit cards, credit cards, charge cards, cheque books, etc. I have never experienced this pre-charge charge until recently and it is only used by a small number of retailers.

    Fuel companies don't impose the charge when I fill up at their pumps, amazon (.co or .co.uk) don't impose it (and it is an imposition) , the online company I buy my HP / Canon printer supplies don't impose this charge, so no, it is not a "standard" of any kind; it's an imposition.

    I shop in Europe and the US (face-to-face transactions) and have never seen one of these pre-charge charges on a statement.
    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    ... The €1 is not taken, but you can't spend it while it's reserved!
    If I can't spend it, it's taken as it is not in my account.

    Putting the old accounting head on, the books must balance.

    The money is not in my account and after exhaustive queries the bank tells me Tescos have the money as the bank does not have a holding account for these transactions. They cannot as they don't initiate the charge. Therefore Tescos are lying again; they have the money and they use it as they wish for periods in excess of a month. My credit card is still missing one euro since 12/02/2013. The card company (bank) tell me Tescos have and only they can reverse it.

    So how does the card terminal software / firmware distinguish between the pre-charge transaction and the charge transaction? Is there anyone working with these machines / systems who can confirm that all the €1 charges go to an escrow account and not the retailer's regular account?


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    #47
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    Ever stay at a hotel?


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    #48
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    mathepac wrote: »
    No it's not, it's new. I have held and used ATM cards, debit cards, credit cards, charge cards, cheque books, etc. I have never experienced this pre-charge charge until recently and it is only used by a small number of retailers.

    My my, atleast if you're going to rant about something atleast have a clue. You also understand cheque books work VERY differently to credit or debit cards right?...its silly why you even mention them :)

    First off it is not a "charge", it is an authorization....the retailer never gets the 1e at all its just held by your payment provider and is released within a certain amount of time. The retailer can never refund it back to you because they never actually get it.
    amazon (.co or .co.uk) don't impose it (and it is an imposition)

    Really?
    Sure about that, bet your life or are you once again talking nonsense?

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_1-1?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200499040&qid=1363332484&sr=1-1
    What is this £1 charge on my statement?

    When you place your first order with us or enter your credit card number in order to view pages inside books, we may contact your credit card's issuing bank to confirm that your credit card is a valid number, and has not been reported as lost or stolen. This is communicated via a £1 authorisation.

    However, we do not actually proceed with the charge. This will not appear as a charge on your credit card statement. This is simply one of the security measures we use to protect our customers.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_rel_topic?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201132830
    When you place your first order with us or enter your credit card number in order to view pages inside books, we may contact the credit card's issuing bank to confirm that the credit card is a valid number, and hasn't been reported as lost or stolen. This is communicated via a $1.00 authorization.

    I think you'll find the likes of Amazon do and have done for years,

    I'd suggest you stop ranting as you are looking like a fool as its very very clear you don't know what you are talking about...you only "think" you do.

    This is all normal and has happened for years, whilst you may claim to be used to credit cards and the likes its evident that you lack experience with them none the less.


  • Options
    #49
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    Mathepac

    The only person here who is trolling is yourself. This form of authorisation has been done by retailers since the introduction of electronic transactions!

    You're not being one upped here, the authorisation is to actually prove your bank account exists otherwise you could take 100 euro of petrol on a dodgy card.


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    #50
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    mathepac wrote: »
    Please troll elsewhere. Thanks.

    Please leave the moderating to the moderators

    dudara


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Was linked to this by the Multinational Unjust Petrol Pumping Euro Taken (MUPPET) site. Can't believe Tesco are getting away with this. What say we get together and all donate a cent to reunite OP with their euro via a Paypal site?

    'It is industry practice to do $1 authorization charges to a CC to verify it's validity' Damn, not Paypal then.

    Transferring funds isn't instantaneous. You didn't choose a set amount so how is the payment supposed to be taken? If it was after you finished then you could have had a tank full of petrol on someone elses card which can't then be processed. If you chose a set amount that could be 'held' and although it pumps slower for you, think of all the time in the world you will have saved for yourself, customer service people, bank people and everyone reading this g.rippy conspiracy theory


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    #52
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Mirabile dictu - within 24 hours of posting my displeasure at TescoMobile keeping my pre-charge credit-card charge for more than 30 days, it gets credited back to-day. Is this a co-incidence I asked myself? Or is it a record?

    Apparently not. I contacted the credit-card company (NOT the bank who issued the card) and they informed me that the default refund policy as far as they are concerned is 30 days post transaction or if the card-holder complains (to the credit-card company). So much for Tescos 3 -5 days nonsense.

    While talking to the credit-card company I noted that Apple on 02/03/2013 had sneakily charged me a €1.98 pre-charge charge on a transaction for a €0.89 app in iTunes. I complained and I got this back as well.

    So Tescos lie when they say 3-5 days, which was one of my original points. The credit-card company say they initiate the query with the merchant who has to release the funds when asked, implyiing strongly that the merchant holds those funds, which in turn implies that Tecos are lying again if they say they don't see the pre-charge charges in their accounts.


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    #53
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    mathepac wrote: »
    Mirabile dictu - within 24 hours of posting my displeasure at TescoMobile keeping my pre-charge credit-card charge for more than 30 days, it gets credited back to-day. Is this a co-incidence I asked myself? Or is it a record?

    Given Tesco who have no idea who you are based on your post on boards.ie you can be pretty damn sure its a co-incidence that your payment provider finally released the authorisation and that you are reading far too much into it.
    So much for Tescos 3 -5 days nonsense.

    This timeframe is a standard timeframe but at the end of the day the release of the authorization and the responsibility for it is down to your payment provider. Tesco can only advise of a general timeframe, it is not their job to know the different payment providers policy's.

    Given the hundreds of banks that people can use with Tesco it would be unreasonable for a Tesco employee to keep up to date with the different policy's, its upto a customer to check with the payment provider for more specific info.
    While talking to the credit-card company I noted that Apple on 02/03/2013 had sneakily charged me a €1.98 pre-charge charge on a transaction for a €0.89 app in iTunes. I complained and I got this back as well.

    Great so your payment provider released the authorization when you asked, still not a failing by Apple.
    So Tescos lie when they say 3-5 days,

    Nope, they didn't, stop being paranoid.

    Again the responsibility for the authorisation holding timeframe is outside of Tesco's control. If your payment provider decides to hold it for 4 days or 40 days its beyond Tesco's control.
    implyiing strongly that the merchant holds those funds, which in turn implies that Tecos are lying again.

    You can read into it what you want but Tesco never get the funds to use, refund or otherwise, the authorization is only held by your payment provider and only they can release it.

    Tesco never see the money unless the charge is proceeded with and for these types of authorization checks they do not proceed with a charge...the exact same as Amazon don't for £1 auth checks. (you know, Amazon...the company you said previously don't do these checks ;) )

    You may want to take your tinfoil hat off.


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    #54
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Cabaal wrote: »
    My my, atleast if you're going to rant about something atleast have a clue. You also understand cheque books work VERY differently to credit or debit cards right?...its silly why you even mention them :) ...
    In your unseemly rush to post your best (but very poor) attempt at sarcasm, your post seems to miss the point which is that using debit and credit mechanisms between fund-holders (banks) and service and goods providers (merchants) is what consumers do. The instrument is irrelevant, the transaction mechanics work the same way, only the time-frames and artefacts differ.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... First off it is not a "charge", it is an authorization....the retailer never gets the 1e at all its just held by your payment provider and is released within a certain amount of time. The retailer can never refund it back to you because they never actually get it. ...
    It is a charge, it reduces the funds available on a card or account. It has been described to me by merchants as both a "registration charge" and as an "authorisation charge". Banks have described it to me as an "initiation fee" (or charge). So clearly in both the language used to describe it and in its financial effect on the holder's card or account, it is a charge.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... Really? ...
    Excellent. My message did get through then and has been passed around. That's good.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... Sure about that, bet your life or are you once again talking nonsense? ...
    I thought we were having an adults' discussion here. How does this tripe add any value? Or is it that the soubriquet "Moderator" is somehow meant to add gravitas to childish post content?
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... I think you'll find the likes of Amazon do and have done for years ...
    I haven't shopped with them for a while it's true, getting better value and shorter turn-around times for books on bookdepository.com, but I honestly can't ever remember being charged a pre-charge charge.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... I'd suggest you stop ranting ...
    That is only your opinion, and is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... as you are looking like a fool ...
    That is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... as its very very clear you don't know what you are talking about...you only "think" you do...
    That is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ... whilst you may claim to be used to credit cards and the likes its evident that you lack experience with them none the less.
    That is a comment about me personally, about my qualifications (which are not known to the "Moderator" concerned) to post in the thread and not a comment about post content and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action

    I think it is a sad reflection on boards.ie that someone who claims the title "Moderator" in some forum or other is allowed to display their bad manners, their lack of moderation in language choice and have free rein to abuse another poster in ad hominem attacks.

    For those not familiar with the term, an ad hominem attack is when a poster attacks another poster personally instead of commenting on their post content. For example "I don't understand your post" is perfectly acceptable, under our charter, but "You look like a fool" is not, At least "you look like a fool" is not acceptable in a post if you are not a "Moderator", even one as immoderate in their posting as evidenced here.


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    #55
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Wow, just wow, right I'll give this a final response and then I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore,.
    mathepac wrote: »
    <snip>
    It is a charge, it reduces the funds available on a card or account. It has been described to me by merchants as both a "registration charge" and as an "authorisation charge". Banks have described it to me as an "initiation fee" (or charge). So clearly in both the language used to describe it and in its financial effect on the holder's card or account, it is a charge.

    Its an authorisation, the funds are held by the payment provider.
    If it was a charge the funds would be received by the provider of goods and/or services....Tesco in your case.

    So, no, its not a charge. :)
    I thought we were having an adults' discussion here. How does this tripe add any value? Or is it that the soubriquet "Moderator" is somehow meant to add gravitas to childish post content?

    At the end of the day I called you out on something you commented on but you clearly had no idea what you were ranting about. You stated Amazon don't do what Tesco do when infact they do.

    Sorry if you find it upsetting to be corrected.
    That is only your opinion, and is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action

    Only calling what i see, in this case you made an uninformed rant and infact you still are.

    By the way, calling your post a rant is not a personal attack its merely a comment on the type of post you made.
    That is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action
    That is a comment about me personally and not a comment on my posts and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action
    That is a comment about me personally, about my qualifications (which are not known to the "Moderator" concerned) to post in the thread and not a comment about post content and therefore breaches our charter. Mods: take appropriate action

    I think it is a sad reflection on boards.ie that someone who claims the title "Moderator" in some forum or other is allowed to display their bad manners, their lack of moderation in language choice and have free rein to abuse another poster in ad hominem attacks.

    For those not familiar with the term, an ad hominem attack is when a poster attacks another poster personally instead of commenting on their post content. For example "I don't understand your post" is perfectly acceptable, under our charter, but "You look like a fool" is not, At least "you look like a fool" is not acceptable in a post if you are not a "Moderator", even one as immoderate in their posting as evidenced here.

    Rightttt,

    Atleast if you are going to post on boards.ie i suggest you learn about how the site works. I'm not a mod in this forum as such I can post like a normal user...just like you.

    In addition, if you have a problem with my post then use report post link. It also looks childish by commenting and then saying in bold "Mods: take appropriate action", :rolleyes:

    Bottom line is once again you've made a number of uninformed posts which make you look foolish, you can be offended all you want but it doesn't change this fact...you don't know how authorizations work and thats clear as day.

    Of course this post even shows that you don't know how even boards.ie works when it comes to mods posting in forums they don't mod and also reporting posts.
    :rolleyes:

    Right, thats me done, not wasting anymore time with you as its clear you just want to believe what you want regardless of being told the correct information.

    Have fun :)


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    #56
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    This thread reads as pointless bickering over nothing.

    I'm off for a beer. :cool:


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    #57
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    keithclancy wrote: »
    This thread reads as pointless bickering over nothing.

    I'm off for a beer. :cool:

    Wait up. I'm leaving work now and have loadsamoney


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    #58
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Enough of the handbags folks. You've been warned.

    dudara


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