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Primary school college course and atheism

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Comments

  • #62
    someoneok
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭someoneok


    Children are born atheists, let's not confuse them with the older generations fairytales.


  • #63
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Religion is taught in every primary school in Ireland,has to be under our current system. There are NO non-denominational primary schools in Ireland. Educate together and some Gaelscoileanna are multi-denominational,where no one religion is favoured over another.

    Alive-O is the Catholic religion syllabus for primary indoctrination, Learn together is the Educate together syllabus.

    I was in Mary Immaculate college over 25 years ago and we learned about different religions but there was nothing like the type of q that seems to have appeared through Hibernia. There are lots of atheists in primary teaching, they just don't make it public to parents!!

    Fixed it for you.

    They tend to call it pre-evangelisation


  • #64
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    darealtulip wrote: »
    They tend to call it pre-evangelisation
    The usual term is "faith formation"(*)


    (*) You'll have to imagine the spitting sounds.


  • #65
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Interestingly enough, the primary school act of 1831 was meant to establish non-denom. schools. There was a hour for lunch break, but this evolved into those staying for some kind of religious instruction for half an hour and then into what we have now.Traditionally religion was taught from 12-12.30 to allow those not taking part go home at that stage.

    Technically, teachers were not paid for this half hour and the dept of ed does not inspect religion during a whole school inspection.

    Yes, non-denom schools are possible, where there is no time spent teaching religion,a prayer is not said in the morning or so on.


  • #66
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    robindch wrote: »
    The usual term is "faith formation"(*)


    (*) You'll have to imagine the spitting sounds.

    no the catholic church revered to it as pre-evangelisation, it is mentioned under that term in Alive-O

    Another interesting submission to the forum on pluralism on teacher colleges:

    http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_donnelly_dr_philomena.pdf


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  • #67
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Religion is taught in every primary school in Ireland,has to be under our current system. There are NO non-denominational primary schools in Ireland...
    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Yes, non-denom schools are possible, where there is no time spent teaching religion...

    Make your mind up!


    darealtulip wrote: »
    Another interesting submission to the forum on pluralism on teacher colleges:

    http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_donnelly_dr_philomena.pdf
    Simple and sensible proposals; makes you wonder what the problem is in just getting on with it.


  • #68
    Silver_525
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Silver_525


    I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
    Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

    So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...


  • #69
    swiftblade
    Registered Users Posts: 2,550 ✭✭✭swiftblade


    Silver_525 wrote: »
    I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
    Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

    So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

    What The F**k.

    That is one college I will be avoiding.


  • #70
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Ok, to be clear,there are CURRENTLY no non-denom primary schools in Ireland, but that does not meant that there CANNOT be non-denoms in the near future.


  • #71
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history"

    ^^ Your notes are full of $hit.


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  • #72
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Silver_525 wrote: »
    Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".
    Who wrote your notes? This is such bullsh1t. I can't believe they're teaching this to kids.


  • #73
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    Who wrote your notes? This is such bullsh1t. I can't believe they're teaching this to kids.

    worse they are teaching teachers to be!!!


  • #74
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Multiple post.


  • #75
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    darealtulip wrote: »
    worse they are teaching teachers to be!!!
    I know. I probably should have said "I can't believe they will be teaching this to kids". The rage cloud made me unclear.

    It's downright dangerous imo to have children associating atheism with the holocaust, Stalin, etc. It will just make any children who start doubting the situation think that they're monsters.


  • #76
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Ok, to be clear,there are CURRENTLY no non-denom primary schools in Ireland, but that does not meant that there CANNOT be non-denoms in the near future.

    Is this what you mean by Non-denominational? Or do you mean the Irish Constitution and the school curriculum would be changed to allow schools spend zero time discussing religion. I'd prefer to get away from the word denomination altogether and just describe schools as either Indoctrinating or not.


  • #77
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Silver_525 wrote: »
    I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
    Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

    So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

    Someone should tell John Colgan and have him accuse the school of incitement to hatred. Because he would have a better chance with this than with that bishop. That is some of the most bigoted and hate filled lies I have ever read.


  • #78
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Silver_525 wrote: »
    I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
    Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

    So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

    I closed the thread after my last post, but I could not get this out of my head. Its just so stupid and ignorant and clumsy (how hollow can someone's fear of atheism and humanism be?). Its just so.... I can't even describe it. Its so irritating and aggravating that this is being taught to f*cking teachers
    11508.jpg


  • #79
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I don't suppose they have a question about Christianity's Crusades or Inquisitions?


  • #80
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    darealtulip wrote: »
    no the catholic church revered to it as pre-evangelisation, it is mentioned under that term in Alive-O
    "Pre-evangelization" -- ye gods, what a desperately Orwellian term. The following quote from Politics and the English Language is worth noting:
    George Orwell wrote:
    [...] Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like "Marshal Petain was a true patriot", "The Soviet press is the freest in the world", "The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution", are almost always made with intent to deceive. [...]


  • #81
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    Mark I can PM the contact detials of the college and the minister etc if you are want to email your concerns


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  • #82
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a follow up post on broadsheet, based on a comment in the original one:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/02/22/ash-wednesday/


  • #83
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    eastbono wrote: »
    Just dot the i's and cross the t's and get your dip. Then go and teach in another country.

    Or would it not be more prudent to actually try to teach that this kind of thinking is false in this country? So that this line of thinking isn't perpetuated. Surely teaching isn't just a matter of maintaining the status quo but trying to open minds to actually thinking alternative views.


  • #84
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    I've tried without success to contact the college generally.

    Does someone have contact details for those administering this particular class/course?

    Thanks,

    P.


  • #85
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I fired off an email to academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net and cc'd it to minister@education.gov.ie.

    I suggest others do likewise.

    I have long suspected that many primary school teachers tend to be cut from a very similar attitudinal cloth. It's unlikely that many atheist or agnostic young people would want to do a job in which it's a norm to prepare children for two or three religious rituals each year.


  • #86
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    darealtulip wrote: »
    Mark I can PM the contact detials of the college and the minister etc if you are want to email your concerns

    Amtmann has put some details there, so I'll use those. If you know of better ones, though, I'll use them too.


  • #87
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Amtmann wrote: »
    I fired off an email to academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net and cc'd it to minister@education.gov.ie.

    Cheers for that, I just had to send a mail.


  • #88
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    10/1 that they will respond saying 'we will pray for you'.


  • #89
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I'm willing to bet they'll ignore it until it makes national mainstream news. Then they will cite a vague 'ethos' and complain about being oppressed. Then people will write into the Indo about 'militant secularism'.


  • #90
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    For the minister: (01) 889233 MINISTER@education.gov.ie or for teacher education tes@education.gov.ie. Press office: (01) 8892162 / 8892322 and Secretary General: (01) 8892280

    Hibernia College Dublin
    2 Clare Street, Dublin 2, Ireland.

    Email: academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net
    Phone: +353 (0)1 661 0168
    Fax: +353 (0)1 661 0162


    Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/print.html#sec4

    Thinking about ringing the guards, read section 4


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  • #91
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/...rint.html#sec4

    Thinking about ringing the guards, read section 4
    __________________

    Personally as a proponent of free speech I disagree with this tactic. While I don't think a college should be teaching anti-religious bigotry as objective fact and being approved to do so by the Dept of Education, I also don't think that anti-hatred legislation should be use unless the writer is directly inciting violence, which in this case, they aren't.

    P.


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