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Surprised by Enda Kenny?

  • 19-03-2012 8:12pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭


    I have been fairly impressed with Enda Kenny since he became Taoiseach. I did not think he would be good at all before he got the job and like many thought FG should have got rid of him before the last election.

    How wrong I was to think that now. He has proven to be able to represent us very well abroad and I am really surprised at that. He has a fantastic energy and drive about him. I was just looking at some tweet from a couple of traders on the wall street trading floor who seemed pretty impressed and he seems to be handling interviews very well. And he LOOKS the part. And that is something we have not been use to for a VERY long time. It's refreshing to see our leader even dressed properly.

    What i'm wondering here is is my reassessment of Enda Kenny fair OR has it to do with getting over the shock of Cowen of Taoiseach rather then Enda's abilities (let's face it the smurfs would have given us more credibility then Cowen)?

    And is my reassessment shared? I think he is doing quite well and deserves a bit of credit.


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    What have you to be impressed about?

    You're easily pleased. This is the same man that sat on his hole for years and never once refused a pay rise even when the country was going down the ****ter. He knows nothing about economics, just another career politician. Never forget that FG voted for the bailouts and people thought Kenny had the stomach to reform politics in Ireland - this from a man that is the oldest serving member of that House. :rolleyes: We were conned again, plain and simple.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Have to agree with most of the post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 786 ✭✭✭Kurz


    If this was a movie then I completely agree with your sentiment. Looks better than Cowen, is well liked abroad etc... Fits the part better than I thought he would. In terms of his job he is spineless, sneaky and incompetent.

    Looking good in the job and doing the job well aren't the same thing by any means.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    _Gawd_ wrote: »
    What have you to be impressed about?

    You're easily pleased. This is the same man that sat on his hole for years and never once refused a pay rise even when the country was going down the ****ter. He knows nothing about economics, just another career politician. Never forget that FG voted for the bailouts and people thought Kenny had the stomach to reform politics in Ireland - this from a man that is the oldest serving member of that House. :rolleyes: We were conned again, plain and simple.


    Conned by who? Ourselves? We vote them in. And I could not disagree more with you except on the point on economics. Is Gerry Adams good on economics? Is Joe Higgins good on economics? They have not an economic braincell between them.

    Enda Kenny may not be "good" at economics but he seems sensible to me, is trying his best to help this horrible situation and is well briefed and to me is very good at getting the message across abroad which is vital.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,118 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Conned by who? Ourselves? We vote them in. And I could not disagree more with you except on the point on economics. Is Gerry Adams good on economics? Is Joe Higgins good on economics? They have not an economic braincell between them.

    Enda Kenny may not be "good" at economics but he seems sensible to me, is trying his best to help this horrible situation and is well briefed and to me is very good at getting the message across abroad which is vital.

    He is a big lick ass. All the time kowtowing to the likes of Sarcozy and Merkel. Embarrassing.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Kurz wrote: »
    Looking good in the job and doing the job well aren't the same thing by any means.


    Is he not doing his job:confused: He is out of the country every week trying tbh. It's not easy. The dynamic of our situation suggests to me that is most important right now if we want to win back investor confidence in our bonds and expell the IMF/ECB. He cannot come out and talk tough on the promissory notes or anything like that in public. That will only piss off our lenders of last resort. He has to be careful handling that publicly. What more do we want? He is not perfect but he is doing well so far IMO.

    And to be fair we have decoupled ourselves thankfully from Portugal and Greece in the bond market. That is a good achievement within one year. Our yields have halved since last July. Their's have doubled.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    In terms of his appearance and handling of events, he did not have much to live up to following on from Cowen . . .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    He is a big lick ass. All the time kowtowing to the likes of Sarcozy and Merkel. Embarrassing.

    German and French money is paying for a good chunk of our services now. Any Taoiseach would have to do the same. The idea is to get out of the bailout so they won't have to do that. Make no mistake about who are paymasters are. If you are suggesting Kenny should go to Europe and tell them to stuff themselves and we will do what we like......i'd suggest that would be a very dangerous thing to do in our fragile situation.


    It often amazes me how Irish people over estimate our place and influence in the world. We have none. We are a tiny island of malcontents on the edge of the Atlantic. If I was Merkel I would not give a damn about us either. We are actually irrelevant even in an EU context similar to a fly on the windowsill. They can live without us, we can't live without them. Many people in this country still need to get real about how desperate our situation is. We have no leverage anymore. Beggars can't be choosers.

    Enda Kenny is doing the only thing he can do which is trying to keep a straight face when he meets these people due to the embarrasingly dire situation we find ourselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭baldbear


    I'm surprised he was with that dodgey o'brien today.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    baldbear wrote: »
    I'm surprised he was with that dodgey o'brien today.

    I am surprised the media did not comment on that much, considering we are not even a year since the publication of the Moriarty Tribunal or the likes. I guess they wanted to keep the positive atmosphere going.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    baldbear wrote: »
    I'm surprised he was with that dodgey o'brien today.


    To be fair Enda Kenny cannot dictate who the NYSE invites to such events. Maybe he would have been happier had he not been there. But he cannot do much about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    impressed by his being sarkozy's house cat?

    his submissive attitude was embarassing.

    Would sarkozy have behaved like that with Cameron - maybe - but cameron would have biten his hand off and he'd never do it again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Well, I'm not impressed..
    He's wooden, lacks personality and in general seems to struggle to genuinely have any rapport with Joe public.. I constantly get the feeling that he's in over his head and still can't seem to believe he made it into the job..

    I just can't see him being taken seriously at any form of high level EU meetings..
    We just don't seem to be able to produce genuine charismatic, capable leaders in our political system... It doesn't look good for the future either...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Given the anger over the Property tax and Mr Kenny's reliance on Minister Hogan to act as his pitbull I would say he lacks the touch that makes people accept him as a leader, analogous to a middle level project manager, out of his depth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭RealExpert


    You must be easily impressed.They are the opposite to robin hood,they rob the poor to make the rich even richer.Dont forget about all his empty promises and all the jobs he has created since getting into office (I cant find the figures anywhere why? cos there are none) Bunch of wasters all of them feather your own nest and **** everyone else is the mentality of those people.They havent a clue what its like to be on the poverty line.The cost of the St Patricks day trips abroad at the taxpayers expense if there are any left is probably twice the money that Im going to get this year.I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they in times like this.Its not FG fault its the Irish people for sitting back and allow themselves to be trampled on.I hope the majority of them has the guts to stick by their guns and not pay the household tax or septic tank tax either and thats just to start.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    RealExpert wrote: »
    I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they


    Should have gone to college, worked hard and got a better job then shouldn't you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    RealExpert wrote: »
    You must be easily impressed.They are the opposite to robin hood,they rob the poor to make the rich even richer.Dont forget about all his empty promises and all the jobs he has created since getting into office (I cant find the figures anywhere why? cos there are none) Bunch of wasters all of them feather your own nest and **** everyone else is the mentality of those people.They havent a clue what its like to be on the poverty line.The cost of the St Patricks day trips abroad at the taxpayers expense if there are any left is probably twice the money that Im going to get this year.I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they in times like this.Its not FG fault its the Irish people for sitting back and allow themselves to be trampled on.I hope the majority of them has the guts to stick by their guns and not pay the household tax or septic tank tax either and thats just to start.
    darkman2 wrote: »
    Should have gone to college, worked hard and got a better job then shouldn't you?

    MOD NOTE:

    Tone it down, please. The former is veering into ranty-land, and the latter is overly personal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    MOD NOTE:

    Tone it down, please. The former is veering into ranty-land, and the latter is overly personal.

    Sorry, just thought it was a good way to stress the point that begrudgery is still alive and well in our society, more so then most.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Frankly I think the man is a disgrace. He's merely continuing the style of government that preceded him. Keep your cronies sweet and to hell with the plebians. He's still the highest paid leader in Western Europe, backed by some of the highest paid politicians who are forcing through draconian fiscal measures on a country devastated by recession. Its disgusting. The gap between the rich and poor is increasing at an accelerated rate, and the poor man is footing the bill for mistakes made by the rich. He has done nothing for the average person and he has failed to pursue and charge any of the people responsible for the mess we're in. He's even on record, blaming the the average Irish person for the recession, when he was trying to cosy up with the Europeans. He's cowardly, shallow, greedy, and ineffectual. So when alls said and done, he's right up their with all the other leaders of the last thirty years.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    blaming the the average Irish person for the recession



    Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.

    The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? It was up to the banks to say "hang on here, we're running a business and if we're not careful we could go bust"...but why should they? The EU's expansion of easy credit into the Eurozone flooded Ireland with cheap money encouraging malinvestments...why do you think people took out loans? Most probably to buy houses and that's where the lot of it ended up, the property bubbles.

    In fact, Ireland is a textbook case of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory. If you think Enda Kenny has anything to contribute to this country or it's people, then you're kidding yourself because these people are well off the mark in their worldview of basic economics. It was FG that agreed to the bailouts....is there anything wrong you see in that?!?!? It's pathetic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭V_Moth


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.

    Why won't this canard of borrowers being to blame die? Ultimately it was the responsibility of the lender to ensure that the person getting the loan can repay it. They failed this responsibility in the search for short-term profits.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    _Gawd_ wrote: »
    The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? It was up to the banks to say "hang on here, we're running a business and if we're not careful we could go bust"...but why should they? The EU's expansion of easy credit into the Eurozone flooded Ireland with cheap money encouraging malinvestments...why do you think people took out loans? Most probably to buy houses and that's where the lot of it ended up, the property bubbles.

    In fact, Ireland is a textbook case of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory. If you think Enda Kenny has anything to contribute to this country or it's people, then you're kidding yourself because these people are well off the mark in their worldview of basic economics. It was FG that agreed to the bailouts....is there anything wrong you see in that?!?!? It's pathetic.


    Firstly - I didn't live far beyond my means. So your theory ends there. I and a good minority of the population were sensible. Why should I have any sympathy for the greedy part of our "average" population (not only bankers and speculators) that behaved so recklessly with their personal finances? Why? Can you answer that? I watched clowns in my own area - taxi drivers - driving brand new mercs every couple of years (2 on my street alone), holidays every few months - a fcuking window cleaner getting big extensions on his very modest house, the holidays, the cars everything else recklessly knowingly beyond their means on credit. Why should those of us who were sensible have to put up with this idea of having to bail these "average" people out? They fecked up along with the banks and politicians. They should take the consequences of their actions. They had a good time. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected in all this.

    Secondly don't start about the bailout. It's simple. As a country we had no choice. It was live or die - take it or don't take it. Anyone who claims this country had any leverage at all over that is dangerously deluded IMO. The likes of Joe Higgins and that can talk all the nonsense they want, they will never be in Government. The Government has to behave sensibly and delicately because the stakes for us as a country cannot be higher.

    The consequence of this is that we now live in a country that no one will lend to. To be honest Ireland's people have shown themselves incapable of self governance. That's the be all and end all of it. Hence our sovereignty has been removed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Firstly - I didn't live far beyond my means. So your theory ends there. I and a good minority of the population were sensible. Why should I have any sympathy for the greedy part of our "average" population (not only bankers and speculators) that behaved so recklessly with their personal finances? Why? Can you answer that? I watched clowns in my own area - taxi drivers - driving brand new mercs every couple of years (2 on my street alone), holidays every few months - a fcuking window cleaner getting big extensions on his very modest house, the holidays, the cars everything else recklessly knowingly beyond their means on credit. Why should those of us who were sensible have to put up with this idea of having to bail these "average" people out? They fecked up along with the banks and politicians. They should take the consequences of their actions. They had a good time. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected in all this.

    Secondly don't start about the bailout. It's simple. As a country we had no choice. It was live or die - take it or don't take it. Anyone who claims this country had any leverage at all over that is dangerously deluded IMO. The like of Joe Higgins and that can talk all the nonsense they want, they will never be in Government. The Government has to behave sensible and delicately because the stakes for us as a country cannot be higher.

    Well, first of all I'm no Joe Higgins fan. I'm a Capitalist which is more than I can say for Kenny and Co. The mere fact that you claim we had no choice - it was do or die just confirms your grasp of the situation, i.e - a lack thereof. I'm not trying to attack you, but you have to realise that there were options. The simplest one to follow would be to acknowledge the principle foundation of the capitalistic system - bad companies die.

    I don't know what you're talking about in your first paragraph, you seem to have gone on some rant about not being greedy etc. It's human nature, my friend. Human Action is called praxeology - we act because we WANT. And we want because we hope to be better in the future. I don't blame the taxi driver that took out a loan and couldn't pay it back. It was his risk and I feel no sympathy for him. Nor do I feel sympathy for the banks that never operated under Capitalistic principles when they knew Big Brother down on Kildare Street would happily bailout their corporate friends. Did I mention FG supported bailing out the wealthy corporatists?!?

    Those banks should of fell and their assets bought up on the market for buttons. The problem is that we have a very dodgy banking system, not because there are a lack of regulations - but because a cartel exists. A cartel with a monopoly. There are a lot of things more sinister than you'd like to imagine at work here. It's not as clear cut as you'd like to suggest. Of course, we had choices. The choice being that private risk is NOT public debt. This is not a looney lefty/socialist view, this is also a capitalist view.

    The manifesto this government, as well as the gombeens that preceded them are working from is your typical fascist playbook.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    darkman2 wrote: »
    . I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected.

    How exactly are you being protected? We have signed up to a bank guarantee that will be an anchor around our necks for generations. That does not sound like protection. The bravado shown by FG before they got into power was there for everyone to see. They lied.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,633 ✭✭✭darkman2


    I agree 2 of the banks should have been let fail (Not all of them though for the simple reason we don't run our own central bank). However my fundamental point is that other countries like Finland that have had a crises as bad as this in the past learned from it, their population accepted and adapted their bahaviour generally away from their mistakes and they make bloody well sure it never ever happens again. It frightened them to correct their own ways as a society. Here, because so many seem to not accept the joint culpability of a good portion of our average population it looks to me like that lesson is not going to be learned. I am doubtful that we will ever regain economic sovereignty even when the crises is over but if we do we could end up in the same situation 20, 30, 40 years down the road again. Irish attitudes to finance generally have to change. There has to be discipline imposed from the top and solid barriers to excessive lending put in place. We may not see another boom but at least we will be solid and more protected.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    darkman2 wrote: »
    I agree 2 of the banks should have been let fail (Not all of them though for the simple reason we don't run our own central bank). However my fundamental point is that other countries like Finland that have had a crises as bad as this in the past learned from it, their population accepted and adapted their bahaviour generally away from their mistakes and they make bloody well sure it never ever happens again. It frightened them to correct their own ways as a society. Here, because so many seem to not accept the joint culpability of a good portion of our average population it looks to me like that lesson is not going to be learned. I am doubtful that we will ever regain economic sovereignty even when the crises is over but if we do we could end up in the same situation 20, 30, 40 years down the road again. Irish attitudes to finance generally have to change. There has to be discipline imposed from the top and solid barriers to excessive lending put in place. We may not see another boom but at least we will be solid and more protected.

    Booms should not exist - they're not a part of capitalism just like a total widespread busts. These recessions, Tigers and depressions are a cause of the ECB counterfeiting money (quantitative easing). They flood the economy with fiat currency and then wonder why they're getting malinvestments. What we need is stable growth over a long period, real growth with plenty of saved capital. This cannot be the case now because the very people you're defending are introducing new taxes which will take more money out of the economy. You can't tax your way out of recession.

    And I disagree, ALL banks should of failed - forget about central banks. Central banks are the enemy of the people. If you want a system of capitalism, you cannot have a central bank with the power to increase the money supply, period. And you'll never change the attitudes to finance because we're human..we make mistakes and it won't be the last time. The only thing you can do which I'm sure your friends are certainly not in favour of being the scumbags that they are is to insert a balance budget amendment into the Constitution so that these cretins never borrow beyond their means again and then have us foot the bill when the wolves are at the door.

    Take it from me, Enda Kenny is NOT the answer to our problems. He never was and he never will be because the man is exactly the same as FF...a fascist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Oh are your feathers getting ruffled just like Enda's hair ?
    mikom wrote: »
    The must have been big fans of thunderbirds in their youth.

    Thunderbirds4.jpg
    maddragon wrote: »
    Is that you Fionnuala.

    MOD NOTE:

    Folks, this kind of posting is better suited to the Politics Cafe or AH.

    Off-topic posts deleted, although I would refer the "Thunderbirds" poster to the "Political lookalikes" thread in the Cafe. ;)

    Let's get back on track here, thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    _Gawd_ wrote: »
    Take it from me, Enda Kenny is NOT the answer to our problems. He never was and he never will be because the man is exactly the same as FF...a fascist.

    Just because Enda K doesn't agree with your political opinions doesn't make him a facist.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    _Gawd_ wrote: »
    The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? .

    Serious? I am flabbergasted at this statement.

    You absolve responsibility of the people, yet claim everyone walked into a bank out of their own free will to get a loan, yet are not to blame for a property bubble. Serious identity issues there.

    "I didnt kill the man Garda, the gun did"


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