Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

New Building Control Regs

  • 27-04-2014 7:36pm
    #1
    lawlorboy
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    Got planning in 2011 then made an amendment which we got planning march 19th 2014 with the conditions attached to the original planning permission but no one knows do we build to to 2013 regs or 2014 regs...anyone know the answer???


«134567…23

Comments

  • #2
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,199 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    You're subject to the new 2014 regulations. It's not when you submit or receive planning that matters, it's when you submit your Commencement Notice (which you couldn't have done before March 1st when the new regulations came into effect).

    So yes, your project comes under the new regulations.


  • #3
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    lawlorboy wrote: »
    Got planning in 2011 then made an amendment which we got planning march 19th 2014 with the conditions attached to the original planning permission but no one knows do we build to to 2013 regs or 2014 regs...anyone know the answer???


    are you talking about building regulations....

    or building control regulations?
    ie the one where you have to engage an architect/ engineer / surveyor....

    there is a huge difference.


  • #4
    lawlorboy
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lawlorboy


    That's great that ive finally gotten an answer in relation to hopefully starting the building,would you know how the new regs affect the self builder?


  • #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057104385

    and can i request a mod to change the title of the thread i linked to, and others, to reflect
    building "control" regulations apart from building regulations?....


  • #6
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    lawlorboy wrote: »
    That's great that ive finally gotten an answer in relation to hopefully starting the building,would you know how the new regs affect the self builder?

    They've fairly much gotten rid of the self builder. You'll need the commencement notice done properly. The local authorities cannot and WILL not issue them retrospectively. Until someone finds they can't sell their house due to no commencement notice and challenges it in court, I would be talking to an engineer or architect about striking a deal on doing the minimum to make it comply.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,199 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    lawlorboy wrote: »
    That's great that ive finally gotten an answer in relation to hopefully starting the building,would you know how the new regs affect the self builder?

    You need to engage a competent professional (Registered Architect, Registered Building Surveyor or Chartered Engineer) to act as the Assigned Certifier. As a self-build project, this may be difficult. Many professionals were advised by various parties not to act as the AC for self-build projects, and some were advised not to act as the AC at all. It could be difficult (and expensive) to find a professional who will be willing to take on this role for a self-build project. You also can't start your build without one, so your first step would be to find and hire one, and they'll be able to advise you on all the rest as it largely boils down to what they want in order to make them comfortable with signing it off.

    Another point to note would be that you have to sign documents saying that you are competent to undertake the works, and that you are the "Principal or Director of a building company only". The second part of that won't be true, and it is therefore illegal to sign it knowing it isn't true, though the Minister has said they won't come after any self-builders who signs this. This is at your own discretion whether or not to take the risk legally, and again should be discussed with the professional you hire.


  • #8
    lawlorboy
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lawlorboy


    That is a huge help to me,been putting off the build for months due to uncertainty.Thanks everyone for putting it in simple terms to help me move forward.


  • #9
    Rackle
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Rackle


    Can anyone help.. We are planning. 39SqM kitchen extension.. We had to go for planning as we have to demolish a wrap around conservatory that faces to the front of the property and replacing it as part of the extension. PP granted December 2013, with a commencement notice attached.. I'm now worried that submission of the CN will throw us under the new Bldg Ctrl Act.. Even thought he extn is clearly under the stated allowed 40 SqM.. Does anyone know.. We really cannot take the financial hit or all of the difficulty that goes with the new act???... Help!


  • #10
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,199 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    A commencement notice is required because your works required planning permission. However, as your works are under 40sqm, it's a shorter version of the commencement notice and one which doesn't fall under the new building control regulation requirements.

    If there's an architect or similar involved in the project, speak with them to make sure.


  • #11
    Rackle
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Rackle


    Penn wrote: »
    A commencement notice is required because your works required planning permission. However, as your works are under 40sqm, it's a shorter version of the commencement notice and one which doesn't fall under the new building control regulation requirements.

    If there's an architect or similar involved in the project, speak with them to make sure.

    Hi Penn
    Thank you so much for your response.. Logic did seem to me that that would be the case, I was just concerned about the front aspect of the house Etc etc... We are also self building, my husband is a qualified (all be it not employed) carpenter, what details do we include in the CN as the 'builder'?? Do we have to est a Co. as suggested for bigger self build projects above?? Thanks again!


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Rackle wrote: »
    Hi Penn
    Thank you so much for your response.. Logic did seem to me that that would be the case, I was just concerned about the front aspect of the house Etc etc... We are also self building, my husband is a qualified (all be it not employed) carpenter, what details do we include in the CN as the 'builder'?? Do we have to est a Co. as suggested for bigger self build projects above?? Thanks again!

    On the short form, you can just put your husbands name as the builder iirc.


  • #13
    Shooter_galway
    Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Shooter_galway


    There's an amendment to the reg that family homes can use direct or self build I have a copy of this pm if you need details and I can forward it on


  • #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Shooter_galway wrote: »
    There's an amendment to the reg that family homes can use direct or self build I have a copy of this pm if you need details and I can forward it on

    Pm sent


  • #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Shooter_galway wrote: »
    There's an amendment to the reg that family homes can use direct or self build I have a copy of this pm if you need details and I can forward it on

    thanks shooter, i had a look at what you sent me.

    its available to view here

    http://www.iaosb.com/information%20note%20on%20building%20control%20(amendment)%20regulations%202014%20(si%20no.%209%20of%202014)%20and%20the%20self-build%20sector.html


    first off, its not an "amendment" to the regulations. Its an information note from the department.
    while its a help to the self build argument, it still does not supersede the fundamental issue of having to legally state that the self builder is "a principle or director of a building company".

    im flabbergasted that the minister simply does not remove that statement from the certificates, if its such a red herring that he claims it
    is.....

    we have already seen this week that having legal advice to state you can break a law... is not in itself a viable excuse to break a law.


  • #16
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    sydthebeat wrote: »

    we have already seen this week that having legal advice to state you can break a law... is not in itself a viable excuse to break a law.

    ... Indeed - but said people got off anyway, so what does that tell us ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #17
    Rackle
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Rackle


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ... Indeed - but said people got off anyway, so what does that tell us ?

    Just on my original query, am I correct to assume that these issues will not apply to us as the extn is under 40SqM?? Albeit we did have to apply for planning and Fi need to submit the 'short' commencement notice??.. R


  • #18
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ... Indeed - but said people got off anyway, so what does that tell us ?

    dont want to be pedantic... but they didnt "get off" they were still found guilty.

    who here wants to be the guinea pig case to test the departments letter?


  • #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Rackle wrote: »
    Just on my original query, am I correct to assume that these issues will not apply to us as the extn is under 40SqM?? Albeit we did have to apply for planning and Fi need to submit the 'short' commencement notice??.. R

    yes you are correct.. only extensions OVER 40 sq m are applicable.

    and yes, short form commencement notice must be sent in.


  • #20
    saucyleopard
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭saucyleopard


    <snip> I also saw something about this a couple of weeks ago on the scsi website.


  • #21
    mandy gall
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    Can we self build in ireland or not? We are so confused...


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Shooter_galway
    Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Shooter_galway


    In 2014 you can self build but there has to be a person nominated to the engineer that has previous experience or extensive knowledge of the building trade. That's what our engineer told me Wednesday evening but theres a lot more that has to be submitted with commencement notice so make sure all is in order.

    We were advised not to start until council have everything as they can revoke planning permission if you start and all drawings etc ain't submitted.


  • #23
    mandy gall
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    We are waiting until self building is made legal again...its probably the safest option.


  • #24
    Shooter_galway
    Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Shooter_galway


    That's if it will be made legal these regulations are there for safety can't see them being relaxed when in place


  • #25
    mandy gall
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    Sure, we all want safe, sound buildings, but regulations must include everybody in society, including people that want to self build..ireland the only country now to ban self building - shocking & scandalous...


  • #26
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    mandy gall wrote: »
    Sure, we all want safe, sound buildings, but regulations must include everybody in society, including people that want to self build..ireland the only country now to ban self building - shocking & scandalous...
    local elections are coming up. are you making your voice heard?


  • #27
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,943 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Shooter_galway wrote: »
    We were advised not to start until council have everything as they can revoke planning permission if you start and all drawings etc ain't submitted.

    They cannot revoke your planning permission.

    They can invalidate your commencement notice.

    Huge difference.


  • #28
    mandy gall
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    BryanF wrote: »
    local elections are coming up. are you making your voice heard?

    Very much so. .you know every single candidate including FG had ni idea how serious SI9 is on self builders..


  • #29
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    mandy gall wrote: »
    We are waiting until self building is made legal again...its probably the safest option.
    Shooter_galway wrote: »
    That's if it will be made legal these regulations are there for safety can't see them being relaxed when in place
    mandy gall wrote: »
    Sure, we all want safe, sound buildings, but regulations must include everybody in society, including people that want to self build..ireland the only country now to ban self building - shocking & scandalous...

    Where on earth are you getting that self-build is 'illegal'. Such stuff'n'nonsense, frankly. Self build is legal and possible. Just do your homework.

    As for waiting, well............it's like buying a PC. if you wait for the 'perfect' one to come along.....you'll be permanently prevaricating. There comes a time when a commitment must be made, one way or the other.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #30
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,199 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Where on earth are you getting that self-build is 'illegal'. Such stuff'n'nonsense, frankly. Self build is legal and possible. Just do your homework.

    Technically it's not. The builder must sign the form which states that they are the "principal or director of a building company only". If you're not one of them, it's illegal to sign the document saying you are. It's just a case that the Minister has said that it is okay to sign it because they won't come after anyone for doing it. Doesn't change the fact that it is technically illegal. Legal advice should always be sought in these cases.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    martinn123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    Penn wrote: »
    Technically it's not. The builder must sign the form which states that they are the "principal or director of a building company only". If you're not one of them, it's illegal to sign the document saying you are. It's just a case that the Minister has said that it is okay to sign it because they won't come after anyone for doing it. Doesn't change the fact that it is technically illegal. Legal advice should always be sought in these cases.

    That's a lot of " Legal Advice" in that post.
    As opposed to an Opinion.

    This has not been tested in any Court, as far as I am aware, and the Minister, and Department, have stated it's still possible to self-build.
    As Syd said in a previous post, no-one wants to be the Guinea Pig, but nevertheless, issuing such a stark opinion, based on such a lack of clarity, is misleading, in my opinion.

    It's like saying you won't get an Assigned Certfyer, and you can't build, has Construction ground to a halt, in the past month or so....no.....

    Lots of Professionals were posting here, that they would be out of work, when these Regs came into force, anyone closed yet......I hope not.


Advertisement